D40 or D50?

Pupator

The fact that I'm even asking this is bad news for my wallet, but here goes.

24 hours back with this great community has made me long for the days when I was shooting every week. I was a longtime Sony 828 user but have been without a camera for quite some time. I want to invest in a camera system, where at least the glass will be with me for many years (and I need at least 5-6 years out of the body as well!).

I've basically narrowed it down to the D40 or D50 based on the reviews from dpreview, looking at other's pictures, test driving a D50, and considering my shooting style, preferences, and cost.

I'm leaning towards the D40, but the 3-zone focus and lack of AF motor on the camera frighten me just a bit. Which do you guys think is the better choice between the two? (Or, if someone feels like making a really compelling Canon argument, I'll read that too.)

ziggy53

The D40 will certainly limit your choice of lenses. Not that the limitation is extreme, but a limitation is a limitation. (Auto focus only works with AF-S or AF-I lenses.)

Then again, in the Canon world, there are limitations regarding EF-S lenses, so go figure.

I would not discount the D70/D70s bodies. My father has one (D70) and it really is pretty nice. You can probably pick up a gently used one in about the same price range.

The Nikon D40 Multi-CAM530 autofocus is a bit of an unknown, but early reviews are pretty good.

The ISO 3200 of the D40 is potentially interesting.

Both Nikon and Canon make great cameras and great lenses, so don't think there is a vast difference to influence your decision. Canon is somewhat better at high ISO, but I like Nikon's i-TTL better than Canon's E-TTL II.

Your selection in bodies will define what lenses you purchase, so you might start with a lens survey first. There might be a particular lens, or accessory, that helps your decision.

ziggy53

Pupator

Ziggy,

I certainly appreciate your response. Most important to me would be a great all-around lens. Coming from the 828, where I had a pretty big range, I'd want a lens that I can trust if I have to go somewhere with only one. (i.e. If I'm running out the door and grab the camera, this is the lens that I know will perform well). I'll want another lens that fabulous for portrait type shots and one more that's excellent a long zoom ranges.

Still, the all-around lens will probably get 70% of the work.

I don't want light to be a problem either. I'm not opposed to a little bit of noise and grain, but I sure better be able to take usable pictures in low light (normal living room or performance hall situations).

ziggy53

There is not a direct correlation from the digicam world to the dSLR world. Placing expectations on a dSLR based on the Sony F828 experience is not really a good idea.

The dSLR has interchangeable lenses, which makes the "system" more flexible overall, but it can be tailored to "your" specific needs.

What I would suggest is to review previous images, looking for how you used the previous cameras. Reflect on what you did, and what you wanted to do but couldn't do before.

Prioritize that list and that will guide you into what properties you require in the new lenses.

For example, most folks want a lens for interior event photography, birthdays and anniversaries and receptions etc. The 18-50mm "crop" zooms cover the same approximate range as 28-80mm covered on full-frame 35mm bodies. A lens with this range and an f2.8 aperture is capable of shooting in many indoor situations without flash, or with flash and fast recycle times.

That same range is fairly handy for many vista landscapes, so it makes a pretty good travel zoom.

For sports and some nature shots, the 70-200mm is popular, as is 75-300mm. For night events, again an f2.8 constant aperture is desirable.

Perhaps the best starter lens, for many photographers, is the 50mm, f1.8 "standard" lens, which is both inexpensive and fairly versatile. It makes a good interior lens because of the large aperture, and it also makes a pretty good portrait lens.

There are 7:1 zooms that match the same approximate range of the Sony F828. There are even 11:1 zooms, if you wish. I don't feel that they match the quality of the F828 lens, so I can't honestly recommend them. They suffer pretty dramatically at large aperture.

ziggy53

Phyxius

While I'm not new to digital cameras I am pretty darn new to digital SLRs. I've a couple brands of P&S digis (and would reccommend Olympus). My film camera is an ancient Canon with equally ancient lens (circa the early-mid 80s). So, spring 2006 when I decided to spring the $$ and get a dSLR I went brand shopping. I was open to anything, but focusing mainly on Canon and possibly the Olympus Evolt 500.

The sales people (yes, multiple) suggested giving the D50 a test run. I held it, shot some pictures, played with different lenses and decided that one can never have too many toys so I went with the less expensive D50 and bought a zoom, camera bag, a couple 1 gig cards, and the SB 800 speedlight. And spent the same amount I was originally planning to spend just on a body and kit lens.

I'm SOO happy I went the "less" expensive route, it's given me room to grow and didn't punch I giant hole in my wallet. Then, of course a couple weeks ago I went to the store and shelled out almost $1900 on the 70-200mm F2.8 VR. BUT my theory is that the lens will last me much longer than the camera and I DO hope to upgrade the body some time next year. I'm not sure yet WHAT I'll upgrade too as I the 10months no intrest I get on purchases over $300.

So, if you read all that you get bonus points. The real point is that I am happy I bought a camera that I can "grow" with. I don't know much about the D40 (it wasn't out when I bought the D50), but it sounds like it will have too many limitations. You say you're leaning towards it "but". Also, if ISO quality on the D40 is anything like the D50 you'll never touch the 3200 and you'll hope you never have to touch the 1600. I'm very happy with the 2.8 lens and while it may be out of your current budget, I'm not even sure it is compatible with the D40.

As Ziggy said, I'd see what accessory options you have with both as adding goodies to your body is half the fun. (And a good way to make a good body better).

Don't know if that helped at all?

Red J

I played with a D40 tonight, and I like the camera.

However, the biggest gripe I have of it, is that it's not easy to turn off the rear screen, and that screen is too near the viewfinder, it messes with me when composing the shot.

Some people could probably get used to it, but I don't think I'm one of those people. Dealbreaker for me.

Phyxius

Red J wrote:

I played with a D40 tonight, and I like the camera.

However, the biggest gripe I have of it, is that it's not easy to turn off the rear screen, and that screen is too near the viewfinder, it messes with me when composing the shot.

Some people could probably get used to it, but I don't think I'm one of those people. Dealbreaker for me.

You mean, just half pressing the shutter doesn't turn it off? Or do you not like the image review? The D50 allows you turn off image review. I'm not sure if the D40 does though. Either way, pressing the shutter button should turn off the LCD screen.

Pupator

ziggy53 wrote:

There is not a direct correlation from the digicam world to the dSLR world. Placing expectations on a dSLR based on the Sony F828 experience is not really a good idea...Prioritize that list and that will guide you into what properties you require in the new lenses.

I did what you suggested, Ziggy. I went back through my old shots - I thought about what I liked about my 828 (almost everything) and what I didn't (not a great low-light camera, MS-PRO prices).

And I think I've decided that I don't need a DSLR. I'm not a professional - I'm probably not even a wanna-be-professional. I like to have manual setting options and versatility, but I like it in one package. Also, I'm cheap. I can't imagine spending the kind of money on glass that I would have to spend to get the versatility out of a DSLR that I'd be looking for. I'm also afraid that I'd get the habit of never changing lenses and would then be bound by the limitations of whatever lens is on the camera at the time.

I print a lot. Tons of 4x6s and a great number of 8x10s, but almost never anything larger than that. Yes, I love the smoothness of the DSLRs. Yes, I seriously covet the useful pictures at higher ISOs - but I don't think it would matter in more than 5% of my shots.

I'll miss those 5%, for sure. But for the price and the other factors, I think maybe a Panasonic FZ50 or even a Fuji S9100 may be better for me (I wonder if they're any better than just going back to the 828....)

Harryb

Pupator wrote:

I did what you suggested, Ziggy. I went back through my old shots - I thought about what I liked about my 828 (almost everything) and what I didn't (not a great low-light camera, MS-PRO prices).

And I think I've decided that I don't need a DSLR. I'm not a professional - I'm probably not even a wanna-be-professional. I like to have manual setting options and versatility, but I like it in one package. Also, I'm cheap. I can't imagine spending the kind of money on glass that I would have to spend to get the versatility out of a DSLR that I'd be looking for. I'm also afraid that I'd get the habit of never changing lenses and would then be bound by the limitations of whatever lens is on the camera at the time.

I print a lot. Tons of 4x6s and a great number of 8x10s, but almost never anything larger than that. Yes, I love the smoothness of the DSLRs. Yes, I seriously covet the useful pictures at higher ISOs - but I don't think it would matter in more than 5% of my shots.

I'll miss those 5%, for sure. But for the price and the other factors, I think maybe a Panasonic FZ50 or even a Fuji S9100 may be better for me (I wonder if they're any better than just going back to the 828....)

Sounds like you are making the right choice for yourself. I shot with the 707 and then the 717 for a few years and have a fine time with them and some of my favorite shots were taken with them. The new digicams take fine shots and a give great bang for the buck.

ziggy53

Pupator wrote:

I did what you suggested, Ziggy. I went back through my old shots - I thought about what I liked about my 828 (almost everything) and what I didn't (not a great low-light camera, MS-PRO prices).

... for the price and the other factors, I think maybe a Panasonic FZ50 or even a Fuji S9100 may be better for me (I wonder if they're any better than just going back to the 828....)

Be sure to give the Sony R1 a consideration. Much better high-ISO than the F828. The lens is not the same range, and is not very suited for sports or nature, but for a lot of people, it's just about right.

Reviews:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Sony/sony_dscr1.asp
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/r1.html
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/sony/dsc_r1-review/index.shtml
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/review/78/page_1.html
http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/sony_r1/sony_r1_review.html
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony-r1.shtml

Samples:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=45610
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=294901
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sony/dsc_r1

It's getting a little hard to find, but I found a couple:
(I've dealt with Berger Bros, and can recommend them.)
http://www.berger-bros.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BBCVD&Product_Code=SONDSCR1
http://www.zoommania.com/dscr1.html

Best,

ziggy53

System

D50
Buy D50. I think it's better than D40. Go to www.dpreview.com and compare them.

Pupator

Thanks Ziggy,

I had checked out the R1, among several others, but I was scared away by:

1) The slow write to CF time (9 secs for RAW?) And according to Phil, you need to shoot RAW to get the most out of that sensor
2) The focus assist lamp (why not stick with the 828's cool grid pattern?)
3) Price - it's $200 higher than the brand new Z50 or S9100. (albeit with their tiny sensors)

Pupator

Just FYI for those interested:

I purchased the Panasonic LUMIX DMCFZ50 (black) this afternoon and it should be here tomorrow. I am really, really excited to be back in the camera-owners world!

ziggy53

Pupator wrote:

Just FYI for those interested:

I purchased the Panasonic LUMIX DMCFZ50 (black) this afternoon and it should be here tomorrow. I am really, really excited to be back in the camera-owners world!

That is a sweet camera indeed. I might suggest an external flash (or two) to give you much better light for indoor shooting. I also suggest either Noise Ninja or Neat Image for processing images taken at higher than ISO 200.

http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm
http://www.neatimage.com/download.html

(Neat Image is available in a freeware edition, for private use.)

ziggy53

Pupator

Ziggy,

Thanks again for your help and encouragement on this. I'm a Noise Ninja guy and have it loaded on the laptop and ready to travel for the holidays.

I had the HVL-F32X external flash for the 828 and it was a lifesaver. I'll definitely be asking my wife for the Panasonic equiv for my (April) birthday. I should be posting samples soon!

Phyxius

Congratulations and welcome back to camera land

Pupator

Phyxius wrote:

Congratulations and welcome back to camera land

Thanks! I made the mistake of having it delivered to my office, so now I'm jumping up to look out the window at the sound of every large truck going by.