Pocket Wizard Multimax

JESTER

Does anyone have any experience with the Pocket Wizard Multimax. I am looking to purchasing a few but would like to know what you think about them first. They aren't cheap so I don't want to waste my $$$ if they aren't any good. Any recommendations will be appreciated.

spider-t

I went with the Pocket Wizard PLUS II's instead of the Multimax. They both have the same range and set of features, but where the Multimax has 32 channels, the PLUS only has 4.

The only time I have to use a different channel than #1 is when I'm shooting in a room with other photographers who use pocket wizards and we don't want to trigger each others' lights. So far I have not been in a situation where we have more than 3 studios set up in a single room, so I've never needed more than the 4 channels of the PLUS.

And I love these Pocket Wizards. They are totally reliable, even at great distances.

Hope that helps,
Trish

Sam

spider-t wrote:

I went with the Pocket Wizard PLUS II's instead of the Multimax. They both have the same range and set of features, but where the Multimax has 32 channels, the PLUS only has 4.

The only time I have to use a different channel than #1 is when I'm shooting in a room with other photographers who use pocket wizards and we don't want to trigger each others' lights. So far I have not been in a situation where we have more than 3 studios set up in a single room, so I've never needed more than the 4 channels of the PLUS.

And I love these Pocket Wizards. They are totally reliable, even at great distances.

Hope that helps,
Trish

Trish,

I have a dumb question. I have a 580 EX. If I want to get the flash off the camera do I need to buy one or two pocket Wizards? One to transmit, and one to receive, or can the 580 EX receive without additional equipment?

If I can't ask a dumb question here cowering behind my keyboard where can I ask it?

Sam

Manfr3d

spider-t wrote:

I went with the Pocket Wizard PLUS II's instead of the Multimax. They both have the same range and set of features, but where the Multimax has 32 channels, the PLUS only has 4.

The only time I have to use a different channel than #1 is when I'm shooting in a room with other photographers who use pocket wizards and we don't want to trigger each others' lights. So far I have not been in a situation where we have more than 3 studios set up in a single room, so I've never needed more than the 4 channels of the PLUS.

And I love these Pocket Wizards. They are totally reliable, even at great distances.

Hope that helps,
Trish

I remember reading that the Multimax is able to fire on 2nd curtain
(via a delay) and it can also be used to create up to 4 independent
"groups" of recievers, which allows you to disable/enable them individualy
via your transmitter as you shoot. Two features that the Plus II units
dont have. The multimax first 4 of 32 channels are compatible to the
4 channels of the plus II trancievers btw.

ian408

Sam,

You need two. One to transmit (goes on the camera in place of the flash) and
the other to receive (at the light source).

If you need the Cadillac, get the M-Max. If all you need is to fire the flash
remotely, then the Plus (either one) will do.

I went the Plus route because I don't generally shoot with others who might
also be remotely triggering lights (or cameras).

pathfinder

Sam wrote:

Trish,

I have a dumb question. I have a 580 EX. If I want to get the flash off the camera do I need to buy one or two pocket Wizards? One to transmit, and one to receive, or can the 580 EX receive without additional equipment?

If I can't ask a dumb question here cowering behind my keyboard where can I ask it?

Sam

Sam - the PWs will not trigger the 580ex or the 430ex because Canon does not build them with a PC connection - the only way they can be used with a PW is with a PC to Hot shoe adapter and then you give up ETTL (and have a completely manual strobe) which for me was too high a price. I like to use the the EOS system strobes in ETTL when shooting moving targets, so I purchased the Canon ST-E2 IR trigger for them. It works very nicely indoors, and allows you to shoot in ETTL etc.

For studio strobes, I use the PW Pluses also. Flawless performance. If you think you will purchase a light meter, get one of the Sekonic flashmeters with the PW transmitter module bulit in - trigger the flashes to get your exposure with the light meter, and you are ready to shoot.

Manfr3d

pathfinder wrote:

Sam - the PWs will not trigger the 580ex or the 430ex because Canon does not build them with a PC connection - the only way they can be used with a PW is with a PC to Hot shoe adapter and then you give up ETTL (and have a completely manual strobe) which for me was too high a price.

Are you saying that one could preserve TTL if one had a PC Terminal
in the flash (like nikon flashes have)? Or do you loose ETTL as soon as
you use those Wizzards regardless of the wirering? Just being curious.

LiquidAir

Pocket Wizards provide trigger information only. They don't communicate metering information for any type of flash. The problem with Canon flashes is only a minor hassle rather than a major loss of functionality.

pathfinder

That is correct - IF you use a PC to Hotshoe Adapter to allow a PW to trigger an EOS flash unit, you wil then have a strictly manual flash, you will give up ETTL control - you will have to set the aperture and shutter speed yourself - there will be NO auto anything. If you are used to using manual flashes and you are in control of where your subjects stand, that is no real problem. I use manual flashes in the studio.

But outside a studio setting, if you are shooting highly mobile rugrats, or butterflies, or other mobile subjects, then you may prefer retaining the control entailed with ETTL. To retain ETTL and wireless control, requires an ST-E2 IR trigger or a 580ex flash unit.

Different strokes for different uses.

Sam

Once we get beyond a 100 watt light bulb I'm lost. What is a PC? If I had 2 PW (pocket wizards) would I have ETTL? What is an ST-E2 IR trigger? Is this in place of or in addition to the PW's.

Yikes!

I'm going to stick with landscapes. If it's day time shoot, if it's night time don't.

Sam

pathfinder

Sam, a PC connection is the little connector that the flash cord plug intos on a camera, especially years ago with film cameras. (PC here antedates the digital computer by 25-50 years), but that is what the little connector cord from the flash that plugged into your camera, before the hot shoe was introduced, was called. Most high end cameras still have one to plug studio stobes or Speedlites into.

They look like the center of this image - not the outer most jack

The ST-E2 is a dedicated Canon IR triggering module that fits into the hot shoe of a Canon DSLR to trigger a slave EOS flash like the 580ex or the 430ex.

As I said earlier, you CANNOT get ETTL control with an EOS Flash unit that is triggered off the camera by a Pocket Wizard. YOU CAN have ETTL with an EOS flash triggered with at ST-E2 trigger module. That is why is it so cool.

And yes, an ST-E2 module is seperate and in addition to a pair of Pocket Wizards. Sorry about the confusion.

LiquidAir

If you get an ST-E2 you have all you need to remotely trigger your 580 with full ETTL-2 flash metering. No pocket wizards, wiring, or adapters are required. Mostly the system works great. I often take my 580 off camera and set it on a shelf pointed either at the ceiling or even better a white wall. The ST-E2 provides focus assist and ETTL-2 takes care of getting the metering right anywhere in the room. The only downside I have seen to triggering my 580 with the ST-E2 is on my camera the flash sync speed drops from 1/200 to 1/160.

Sam

Sorry guys. I still don't understand this.

I read my handy dandy 580 EX Speedlite manual, and although I didn't understand a lot of it, one thing seemed pretty clear, all I need is two Speedlights. One will act as a master, and the other as a slave. They apparently have a trasmitter, and reciever. The manual refers to transmitting signals. Why would I want to buy 2, or more very expensive transmiter / receivers (PW) when the Speedlites them selves have this capibility? Maybe I could see one ST-E2 E-TTL wirerless transmitter if I wanted to get say one or more Speed lights off the camera, and remote trigger them.

But if all you want, need, can afford is one more Speedlite then you should be in business, no?

Again sorry, it's late, I can't sleep, and I am only running on 6 cylinders.

Sam

Manfr3d

Sam wrote:

Sorry guys. I still don't understand this.

I read my handy dandy 580 EX Speedlite manual, and although I didn't understand a lot of it, one thing seemed pretty clear, all I need is two Speedlights. One will act as a master, and the other as a slave. They apparently have a trasmitter, and reciever. The manual refers to transmitting signals. Why would I want to buy 2, or more very expensive transmiter / receivers (PW) when the Speedlites them selves have this capibility? Maybe I could see one ST-E2 E-TTL wirerless transmitter if I wanted to get say one or more Speed lights off the camera, and remote trigger them.

But if all you want, need, can afford is one more Speedlite then you should be in business, no?

Again sorry, it's late, I can't sleep, and I am only running on 6 cylinders.

Sam

Well if you have two speedlites one being the master (the 5xx
series and the ST-E2 can do that but not the 4xx series) you
need to have:

1. The master unit on your camera (or wired to your camera)
2. The master and slave(s) need to see each other (infrared)

The benefits of a radio trigger are:

1. You can use virtualy any flash not only canon ones
2. Freedom of positioning the flashes (no sight contact needed)

Option one preserves the TLL stuff as I learned here but can be
somewhat expensive (580ex + 430ex) whereas option two you
have to set each flash manualy (which is sth pros do all the time).
Benefits of option two is that you can get great results with say
two used nikon sb-24 flashes and a generic radio trigger for under
200$.

The strobist blog has some excellent tips and explanations on flash
photography. It also features the "starving student lighting kit"
and other really cool stuff. Well worth the read if you want to know more:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

Sam

OK, three brain cells active, I think i have the jist of it.

Thanks!

Sam

pathfinder

The real difference between a radio trigger like the PWs, and the IR triggers like the ST-E2 or a master 580ex and a slave 430ex ( 430ex CANNOT be a master only a slave ), is whether you want to shoot in ETTL or in manual flash mode - ie in manual flash mode you have to set the exposure for each shot. Use a flash meter and set the aperrture and shutter speed each time the distance of the subject from the flash changes. With candid shots, this is every shot.

IF you are a pro shooting in a studio, you WILL have complete control of where the lights are, their output, and where the subjects are positioned, so exposure will not change from shot to shot to shot. This is how Shay shoots his wedding subjects. He knows precisely how far he will be from his subject for each shot, so he does not need ETTL.

BUT, if you are shooting mobile two years olds in a candid family setting, and have have absolutely no control over where they are in relation to the lights, setting exposure manully is an exercise in futility. ETTL REALLY saves the day here. If you want to shoot kids wandering about over an area 20 x 30 feet and try to use fixed, manual studio strobes in this situation, more power to you - Not my cup of tea.

Short answer - I USE PWs in the studio, but Canon IR triggers that retain ETTL at home. Like I said, entirely different shooting situations.

Not the right answer, just one that works for me.

As for using an ST-E2 versus another 580ex, it is smaller, lighter, less conspicuous, and the battery lasts longer. The ST-E2 is about 1/2 the price of a 580ex also....

I also think it is a better focus assist light than the IR transmitter in the 580ex, but that is just a guess on my part, not a fact.

The ST-E2 is short and less likely to be knocked off also. I do not like large devices attached to the pentaprism of an expensive camera either - just a pet peeve of mine, Sam

I am sorry I did not mean to confuse you, that you needed the ST-E2 AND Pocket Wizards. If all you want to trigger are EOS System flashes like the 580ex and 550ex or the 430ex, one ST-E2 will do all that just fine by itself without wires. An ST-E2 and a 580ex and you are good to go. You can add other EOS flashses later as needed.

The downside is that the ST-E2 WILL NOT trigger studio type strobes - for that a Pocket Wizard will serve much better, but there is no ETTL of course. But if you are only planning on using Canon Speedlites, the ST-E2 will be all you need.

If you decide to use a PW with an EOS Speedlite and forsake ETTL, here is the cord you need ....

Sam

Pathfinder wrote: "The ST-E2 is short and less likely to be knocked off also. I do not like large devices attached to the pentaprism of an expensive camera either - just a pet peeve of mine, Sam"

Disclaimer:

Please be advised, I did not design, nor did Canon request any input from me with regard to the attachment of said device. I take no responsibility for agravating your pet peeve.

On the up side i do think I have the basics of the different systems to activate the flashes, and why i might want one over the other.

Thanks!!!

Sam

El Kiwi

One question about this - what's the (real) effective range of the ST-E2? Officially it's about 5 metres if I recall correctly - is this realistic? Is it feasible to use for outdoor use? Does it get confused if you use it in sunlight, for example? What about at dusk or at night?

pathfinder

I can use the ST-E2 in my house shooting the IR beam down the hall 8 meters, and have the flash at a right angle to the hallway in a room and not directly in the direction of the beam, by 3 meters and it will fire - that is to say the flash CANNOT directly see the IR transmitter as it is around a 90 degree turn inside the room at the end of the hallway.

Outside after dark ( I just did this experiment ) I could trigger a 430EX that was 25 meters from me when it was facing me. At 30 meters it would fail to trigger.

Your estimate of 5 meters seems conservative.

I have not tried this outside in hot summer sunlight though.

El Kiwi

Well, I think I'm sold then

Thanks for all the information!

pathfinder

I tried the SL-E2 outdoors in the late afternoon sunlight to see if sunlight made any difference. I used a 580ex on a tripod FACING me ( the flash red filtered aperture facing towards me ) and could trigger it from 20-25 feet reliably.

More significant, I think, is that I could have the flash 3 meters away from me and slightly in front of me facing the same direction I was ( eg; I was facing the back fo the flash ) and could get it to trigger out of doors if there was a subject of size to reflect the radiation back to the flash. Indoors, trigering was even more reliable.

This is not a device to trigger flashes at the other end of a gymnasium. It is device to work in a home or small area as a replacement for wired connections.

gavin

You get what you pay for. Id go for a radio trigger any day of IR. But then again it depends on what your using it for. IR remotes can be irreliable where a radio will fire the flass anytime. You don;t have to worry about it "no firing".

Pocket wizards are reliable, and liek i said you get what you pay for. unfortunatly they are redicously expensive. I have the Plus II's, work great.

El Kiwi

Maybe - losing ETTL is a big lose though. Maybe not so important in a studio where you control everything, but for remote triggering in real-life situations, I think the ST-E2 takes it, for me at least. Especially with the sort of range Pathfinder details above. It's not so much a matter of getting what you pay for (although that is definitely true of a lot of things), so much as getting what you need for your requirements.

pathfinder

Gavin,

I do not favor the ST-E2 over the PWs. I OWN and USE both. You can use a 580ex instead of an ST-E2, but it costs almost twice as much and is bigger and more unwieldly on the camera. The ST-E2 is the size of a small deck of cards and weighs even less.

If you do not need ETTL, as in a studio situation, the reliability of the PWs is great and they will certainly transmit much farther. I use them in that situation. If I was a sport shooter who wanted to trigger a flash at the opposite end of a gymnasium, I would use PWs for that also.

But in an indoor situation like a home or a church, where the distances are less, the ability to control two or three flashes, and to vary their lighting ratios without having to do more than slide a slider, is hard to beat, whle you retain ETTL.

Not which is better, but which tool works better in which situation. Having both is the best of both worlds.

gavin

Thats very true. I use pocket wizards for biking purposes, and in the studio. IR just doesn't work in a dence forest.

It all depends on what you need them for.

saurora

pathfinder wrote:

Gavin,

I do not favor the ST-E2 over the PWs. I OWN and USE both. You can use a 580ex instead of an ST-E2, but it costs almost twice as much and is bigger and more unwieldly on the camera. The ST-E2 is the size of a small deck of cards and weighs even less.

If you do not need ETTL, as in a studio situation, the reliability of the PWs is great and they will certainly transmit much farther. I use them in that situation. If I was a sport shooter who wanted to trigger a flash at the opposite end of a gymnasium, I would use PWs for that also.

But in an indoor situation like a home or a church, where the distances are less, the ability to control two or three flashes, and to vary their lighting ratios without having to do more than slide a slider, is hard to beat, whle you retain ETTL.

Not which is better, but which tool works better in which situation. Having both is the best of both worlds.

This has been the most helpful thread to me! I think I am finally beginning to 'see the light' on all of these different ways to trigger flash! Thanks Sam for posing the very questions that I needed answers to. I currently have one 580ex and need to get it off camera and add an additional flash. I have been totally confused by all the triggering options. It's difficult to visualize what will work for you when you've never had experience using any of it. Thanks to Pathfinder's most excellent commentary it's finally sinking in. As usual with photography equipment, there seems to be no single 'best' purchase........there always seems to be a trade-off and if you can afford it, it's nice to have it all!!!

pathfinder

Glad to help, Saurora.:slurp