Sports Photography

iam4psu80

I have recently purchased a new canon speedlight 580x for use with my digital rebel xty. I'm trying to figure out how to get the flash to fire for a rapid series of pictures. I am using a 28 to 200 F4 lens for shooting night football and indorrs for basketball. Can anyone give me some settings to work from?
Thanks,
Paul

Jeffro

Shutter speed set to 1/200, speedlight set to highspeed sync.

dhlewis

Sports Photography
If I understand your question coorrectly, generally speaking what you are trying to do is not possible. The 580 with internal batteries can not fire a "burst" of flashes as you would like. With an external battery pack you can shoot quicker especially in a fill flash mode.

For night football the general settings used would be ISO1600, min 1/400 shutter speed and f2.8. On some fields even this is marginal.

For basketball again the lighting will dictate what you can do. Most high school shooters use the 85mmf1.8 or a 70-200f2.8. Again the shutter speed needs to be 1/400 to avoid motion blur. With the 85f1.8 or a 50f1.8 you may be able to get away with little or no flash which will give you faster recycles.

Hope this helps.

Jeffro

dhlewis wrote:

If I understand your question coorrectly, generally speaking what you are trying to do is not possible. The 580 with internal batteries can not fire a "burst" of flashes as you would like.

Dare I say you are wrong? Ok, I will....you're wrong. You can get a burst of shots, using the camera's high speed sync shutter rating (1/200 in the XTi) and setting the flash to high speed sync. Try it. I have done it with my 20D and 550EX a zillion times.....yes really a zillion.

In fact I just did a series of 8 shots, just to make sure I wasn't crazy. I guess there is still a chance I'm wrong, since I haven't tried it with the XTi and the 580EX.

But even so, I'm not sure I would want to use that "strobe" effect on a basketball player.

dhlewis

Jeffro wrote:

Dare I say you are wrong? Ok, I will....you're wrong. You can get a burst of shots, using the camera's high speed sync shutter rating (1/200 in the XTi) and setting the flash to high speed sync. Try it. I have done it with my 20D and 550EX a zillion times.....yes really a zillion.

In fact I just did a series of 8 shots, just to make sure I wasn't crazy. I guess there is still a chance I'm wrong, since I haven't tried it with the XTi and the 580EX.

But even so, I'm not sure I would want to use that "strobe" effect on a basketball player.

well it won't be the first time.....but since shooting football requires full power from the strobe I don't think it will work there either. I was aware of what you mentioned but never thought it using it for sports. Anyway, Happy new year.

Jeffro

dhlewis wrote:

well it won't be the first time.....but since shooting football requires full power from the strobe I don't think it will work there either. I was aware of what you mentioned but never thought it using it for sports. Anyway, Happy new year.

I wouldn't use it for football or basketball either...I was just letting him know it's possible to get a burst of shots using a flash.

I never use flash on BB or FB. I prefer not to be the blame of a fumble or missed shot.

Happy New Year right back at you!

mercphoto

iam4psu80 wrote:

I have recently purchased a new canon speedlight 580x for use with my digital rebel xty. I'm trying to figure out how to get the flash to fire for a rapid series of pictures. I am using a 28 to 200 F4 lens for shooting night football and indorrs for basketball. Can anyone give me some settings to work from?

Everyone is concentrating on the flash bursting. I'm going to give advice in two additional directions for you.

1) Ditch the f/4 lens. For night sports you really, really, really need an f/2.8 or faster lens. I'd suggest Canon's 85/1.8 for basketball, and Canon's 200/2.8 for football. Or, their 70-200/2.8 zoom. This alone gives you twice the light, which is at a premium in night sports.

2) Don't burst your shots. Be deliberate about when you press that shutter. Don't "hold and pray something in this burst looks good". Besides chewing through batteries very rapidly you will build up a tremendous amount of heat in that flash. I know someone who practically melted a 580EX bursting with an external battery pack.

If you must burst, consider the 2.8 glass will require half the flash output (faster recycle, less heat). If you must burst, an external battery pack (even Canon's) will almost be a necessity.

dhlewis

Bill,

if you read my post I think that's what I implied use f2.8. Since were on the subject I'll throw the Sigma 120-300f2.8 into the mix, it's a great football lens.

winger

mercphoto wrote:

Everyone is concentrating on the flash bursting. I'm going to give advice in two additional directions for you.

1) Ditch the f/4 lens. For night sports you really, really, really need an f/2.8 or faster lens. I'd suggest Canon's 85/1.8 for basketball, and Canon's 200/2.8 for football. Or, their 70-200/2.8 zoom. This alone gives you twice the light, which is at a premium in night sports.

2) Don't burst your shots. Be deliberate about when you press that shutter.

I would have to agree with both. I shoot natural light indoor and out, there is challenges with light in both, but taking the time to both a) get your timing down and b) learning how to use the light you are given will give you a much better education than trying to figure out the flash.

I can say this because I am a member of that school. Plus now if I get the money and start strobing arenas, my timing will be down because the bigger the lights are the more time they take to recycle.

and my 70-200 is used for EVERYTHING. althought if i had the cash i would add to it an 85/1.8 lens. But the 70-200/f2.8 really should be any sport photograhpers first purchase. Personally if i had to do it again I wouldnt even bother with the IS.

RandySmugMug

winger wrote:

I would have to agree with both. I shoot natural light indoor and out, there is challenges with light in both, but taking the time to both a) get your timing down and b) learning how to use the light you are given will give you a much better education than trying to figure out the flash.

I can say this because I am a member of that school. Plus now if I get the money and start strobing arenas, my timing will be down because the bigger the lights are the more time they take to recycle.

and my 70-200 is used for EVERYTHING. althought if i had the cash i would add to it an 85/1.8 lens. But the 70-200/f2.8 really should be any sport photograhpers first purchase. Personally if i had to do it again I wouldnt even bother with the IS.

superb advice on light and the 70-200
it is quite possible to get good results even from the darkest high school gym or fb field w/o using a flash

I really liked the fact that Canon offered the 70-200 2.8 in non IS...I have the nikon 70-200 VR and never use the VR

shadgkiss

What would your recommendations be to shoot a indoor basketball game with no flash? ISO, f#, etc...

With the flash I am mostly using 800iso, f2.8, 430ex flash.

I am using a Rebel XT, Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS.

Thanks for the help, this is something I am working on getting better at.

wxwax

shadgkiss wrote:

What would your recommendations be to shoot a indoor basketball game with no flash? ISO, f#, etc...

Here's a Winger gallery of basketball shots.

Click on the EXIF under each shot.

mercphoto

shadgkiss wrote:

What would your recommendations be to shoot a indoor basketball game with no flash? ISO, f#, etc...

With the flash I am mostly using 800iso, f2.8, 430ex flash.

I am using a Rebel XT, Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS.

Thanks for the help, this is something I am working on getting better at.

This will vary from gym to gym, so an exact answer is not possible, but here are general guidelines.

1) Shoot RAW, simply to avoid white balance issues and to adjust any exposure problems more easily. As you get better at this and nail your exposures you can safely switch back to JPG if you prefer.

2) Shoot full-manual mode. Aperture wide open. Select a shutter speed of at least 1/250. If you can get 1/320 or even 1/500 that's great!

3) Select an ISO such that you are not over-exposed, and no more than one stop under-exposed. I would start at a shutter speed of 1/500 and see if ISO 1600 can get you in this exposure bracket or not. If not, drop the shutter speed. If you get below 1/250, bump up to ISO 3200.

4) AI-Servo focusing, center-point-only.

shadgkiss

Thanks for your help. I am shooting a game tonight so I will give your info a try.

johng

Just to add to merchphoto's response - when judging exposure, judge it by the exposure of the FACES, not the uniforms.

Let me give you an example: at a game a couple weeks ago I was shooting in a gym I've never shot before. To get a quick read on shutter speeds I put the camera in Av mode to see what the camera would meter at - a player for the home team, in white, metered at 1/1000 while the visiting team player metered at 1/400. 1/400 properly exposed the faces IMO and I set manual to that. So, make sure you judge exposure by looking at the histogram (should be balanced not shifted to the left).

This is even more critical at higher ISOs. I disagree somewhat with the concept of allowing the image to be underexposed - the conversion will bring out more noise. So, only use this option (underexposing and correcting in RAW conversion) if you absolutely have to because you don't have a fast enough lens. If your choices were 1/400 for proper face exposure or 1/600 for what the camera thinks is proper exposure - choose the 1/400. If your shutter speeds for proper exposure fall below 1/250 you don't have a choice in the matter - you'll need to go the 'underexpose and correct' route. But it should still be a last resort.

gsgary

What about setting the 580 to multi and changing HZ to suit thats how they shoot rallying at night