an assistant's copyrights

urbanaries

I tagged along with a local veteran wedding photog last Friday and another this coming Saturday...The idea is for me to eventually shoot ceremonies/receptions on my own, under his name, minus the formal bridal portraits.

My question is, either before or after I become his "formal" assistant, do I have the right to use the shots I take for my portfolio eg website? I will be using my own gear this Saturday and in the future. I don't want to offend him by asking, but my interest in the assistant gig is to 1. hone and improve my skills and 2. beef up my wedding portfolio. (#3. cash doesn't hurt either).

Any other rules/advice about working under someone else would be appreciated! I'm trying to strike the right balance of humble yet confident. :wink

gus

urbanaries wrote:

I don't want to offend him by asking

There will certainly be a moments uncomfortable silence when he finds out then.

I would expect the only true way to do this is to talk to him about it.

All i can see coming of it is 2 lawyers putting kid #3 through private school if he objects to it & you have already gone ahead with it.

slapshot

gus wrote:

There will certainly be a moments uncomfortable silence when he finds out then.

I would expect the only true way to do this is to talk to him about it.

All i can see coming of it is 2 lawyers putting kid #3 through private school if he objects to it & you have already gone ahead with it.

If you are doing the work "for hire" then you do not retain the copyright and can't use any of the images without permission. However, I doubt that you have any kind of agreement in place specifying whether your work is "for hire" or not.

The best thing to do is to discuss this with the photographer for whom you are working. If you bring this topic up in a tacftful and humble manner, you should not offend him. Working for him, you want to gain experience and build your own portfolio. However, he does not want you to benefit inappropriately by stealing his clients. You should try to reach an agreement where you can display work of your own for the purpose of gaining new clients, but not benefit by selling this work directly to the clients of your mentor.

If he does not agree, then you need to decide if the experience you gain will be worth working with this person, or if you should find someone else to help you get started.

Goodluck!!

urbanaries

gus wrote:

There will certainly be a moments uncomfortable silence when he finds out then.

I would expect the only true way to do this is to talk to him about it.

All i can see coming of it is 2 lawyers putting kid #3 through private school if he objects to it & you have already gone ahead with it.

Oh no, I am asking now before making any assumptions! I haven't shot anything yet...the experience /knowledge is certainly worth it. It would be nice to use shots for my portfolio but not expected. I'm just wondering. He obviously knows I'm in business for myself to some degree....he's just (rightfully so) not threatened by some rookie!

anwmn1

Urbanaries-

Thanks for posting these questions. I have recently started working with a wedding company here in Phoenix as an assistant/ 2nd photographer so I will tell you about my experience and expectations.

I asked about the copyright issue from the get go as well as pay- obviously the photographer is making some money so if they are going to use any of your work you should as well.

I worked out a deal to collect a small fee for the first two shoots ( I just completed the second Dec. 30th) as an internship of sorts, the agreement was if after two shoots I still wanted to do weddings and they liked my work we would renegotiate my compensation. I am getting CS2 for free with all the filters they have already purchased, as well as them paying for me to take some post process classes with them.

I looked at this as a great learning opprotunity for business, shooting people, and post process techniques. As far as copyrights they burn me a cd of my pictures unedited that I can keep but cannot sale in anyway. Use of these photos for portfolio is dependent upon the client permitting pictures being used for anything other than their album and prints. Some clients are very touchy about this.

I will have a sit down with the photographers I am working with to see how I did on this last shoot (several of my pictures made the cut to be used as proofs from the first shoot) and to renegotiate my fee.

I have learned one very important thing already though- I do not want to be a wedding photographer. I enjoy the shoots and will work as a 2nd photographer because there is obviously money to be made, but I will not venture out to have my own wedding photography business. For me the time commitment, contracts, albums, and loss of weekends are not for me. I like the idea of being the 2nd photographer were I let them know when I am available, I show up - shoot, and give them back the memory cards in exchange for a check. It allows me to still shoot the subjects I enjoy most (not people) as well as have time for the other interests in my life.

In closeing- ask all the questions you have- copyright- pay- etc. if the photographer you are working with gives you a hard time or beats around the bush about answering - you should look to work with someone else.
Remember - if you are not happy doing what you are doing- you shouldn't be doing it.

urbanaries

anwmn1 wrote:

Urbanaries-

Thanks for posting these questions. I have recently started working with a wedding company here in Phoenix as an assistant/ 2nd photographer so I will tell you about my experience and expectations.

I asked about the copyright issue from the get go as well as pay- obviously the photographer is making some money so if they are going to use any of your work you should as well.

I worked out a deal to collect a small fee for the first two shoots ( I just completed the second Dec. 30th) as an internship of sorts, the agreement was if after two shoots I still wanted to do weddings and they liked my work we would renegotiate my compensation. I am getting CS2 for free with all the filters they have already purchased, as well as them paying for me to take some post process classes with them.

I looked at this as a great learning opprotunity for business, shooting people, and post process techniques. As far as copyrights they burn me a cd of my pictures unedited that I can keep but cannot sale in anyway. Use of these photos for portfolio is dependent upon the client permitting pictures being used for anything other than their album and prints. Some clients are very touchy about this.

I will have a sit down with the photographers I am working with to see how I did on this last shoot (several of my pictures made the cut to be used as proofs from the first shoot) and to renegotiate my fee.

I have learned one very important thing already though- I do not want to be a wedding photographer. I enjoy the shoots and will work as a 2nd photographer because there is obviously money to be made, but I will not venture out to have my own wedding photography business. For me the time commitment, contracts, albums, and loss of weekends are not for me. I like the idea of being the 2nd photographer were I let them know when I am available, I show up - shoot, and give them back the memory cards in exchange for a check. It allows me to still shoot the subjects I enjoy most (not people) as well as have time for the other interests in my life.

In closeing- ask all the questions you have- copyright- pay- etc. if the photographer you are working with gives you a hard time or beats around the bush about answering - you should look to work with someone else.
Remember - if you are not happy doing what you are doing- you shouldn't be doing it.

This was the kind of info I was looking for! Thanks! Some of these issues are only learned from experience, so I appreciate you sharing yours. I just didn't want to ask him a question that had an obvious answer, even if it wasn't obvious to me. I, too, am wondering if weddings are something I want to pursue....I enjoy shooting children much more, and its not so hairy.
But this should be a great test. Again, thanks for your input, and keep us posted!

lynne

bham

urbanaries wrote:

I tagged along with a local veteran wedding photog last Friday and another this coming Saturday...The idea is for me to eventually shoot ceremonies/receptions on my own, under his name, minus the formal bridal portraits.

My question is, either before or after I become his "formal" assistant, do I have the right to use the shots I take for my portfolio eg website? I will be using my own gear this Saturday and in the future. I don't want to offend him by asking, but my interest in the assistant gig is to 1. hone and improve my skills and 2. beef up my wedding portfolio. (#3. cash doesn't hurt either).

Any other rules/advice about working under someone else would be appreciated! I'm trying to strike the right balance of humble yet confident.

Depending on the photographer I wouldn't think they would object to using shots that you shot for your portfolio to show work you can do to future clients. This is reasonable, as long as the wedding subjects will be letting the main photographer do the same. The photographer in return for payment will probably want an original copy of your work so he can sell the prints, or use some images in the album, etc.