Thoughts on Canon Speedlite 580EX Flash?

mpmcleod

We now have a longer (physically) lens (EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS). We now need a flash for our digital rebel since the lens creates shadows with the built-in.

Specifically we are looking at the Canon Speedlite 580EX Flash. I can get it through Amazon for $380 with free S&H.

Is this a good flash choice for the digital rebel?
Other suggestions?
Things to look out for or consider when selecting a flash?

Diffuser suggestions for portrait work?

pepper44

I'm no expert, but I have a Digital Rebel (the 350D) and I have the same flash. It works great, I love it. The only thing that drives me crazy is the high pitched sound it makes and the fact that it eats batteries. It takes wonderful pictures though!

Tommyboy

I have a 430EX which works great, but I do find myself, once in a while, wishing I had more power. Get the 580 and dig it.

Jeffro

I've have the 550EX and have used the 430 and 580. All good. I like that the 580 is slimmer than the 550. The 430 seems to do a great job, and unless you plan on shooting with multiple flashes (it triggers the others) you may not need it.....wanting it though is a different story.

I the price of the 580 is not a problem, get it, you won't regret it.

BigAl

My BiL has the 580 and the 430, and I have a 430 and a 420. What we found over Xmas weekend is that the recycle time between shots is *very* much longer on the 580 than either the 420 or the 430. As mentioned earlier, the 580 also eats batteries. My BiL eventually only used the 580 for triggering the 4xx flashes when he needed extra lighting. Personally, I'm seriously considering the Sigma 500 DG Super rather than the 580.

kdog

BigAl wrote:

My BiL has the 580 and the 430, and I have a 430 and a 420. What we found over Xmas weekend is that the recycle time between shots is *very* much longer on the 580 than either the 420 or the 430. As mentioned earlier, the 580 also eats batteries. My BiL eventually only used the 580 for triggering the 4xx flashes when he needed extra lighting. Personally, I'm seriously considering the Sigma 500 DG Super rather than the 580.

It's also throwing more light though, isn't it? If you dial the power back to that of the 430, how does its cycle time and battery life compare then?

Regards,
-joel

pepper44

You know what I just realized, I have the 550 not the 580! Sorry! Anyway, the 550 is a great flash...apply what I said to that one.

docwalker

I got the 580 after using the Nikon SB-800. I love the 580. It is a great tool and I spend very little time looking at the settings on it like I did with the SB-800.

I also added a foam white card (followed the instructions from "a better bounce card") to it and I am simply amazed at the results. I have not had a chance to put the Gary Fong Diffuser on it as I have the wrong size.

BigAl

kdog wrote:

It's also throwing more light though, isn't it? If you dial the power back to that of the 430, how does its cycle time and battery life compare then?

Regards,
-joel

I understand what you're trying to get at, but do you want to spend twice as much on a flash to get it to recycle at the same time as a cheaper one when you detune it to 70% (maybe) of its capabilities?

pathfinder

I think one of the solutions to battery life is to use only non-rechargeable Lithium AA cells. They cost more but last a lot longer.

I use both the 580 and 430 and notice no real difference is recycle times; usually they recycle in less than a second indoors, where the flash usually does not empty the capacitors charge fully. If the flash is fully dumping its capacitor for each shot, consider raising your ISO to prevent this from happening. At ISO 200 or 400, the flash will recycle very fast indoors with Lithium batteries. Sam's sells 3 four packs for ~$20.

If recycle times are a concern, get the extra battery pack from Canon and the recycle times are very brief.


Indeed, if the flash needs to fully recharge after every shot, you need to get some studio lights:D

pathfinder

BigAl wrote:

My BiL has the 580 and the 430, and I have a 430 and a 420. What we found over Xmas weekend is that the recycle time between shots is *very* much longer on the 580 than either the 420 or the 430. As mentioned earlier, the 580 also eats batteries. My BiL eventually only used the 580 for triggering the 4xx flashes when he needed extra lighting. Personally, I'm seriously considering the Sigma 500 DG Super rather than the 580.

Were you both using new batteries of the same type?......

Batteries make a BIG difference in recycle times.

BigAl

pathfinder wrote:

Were you both using new batteries of the same type?......

Batteries make a BIG difference in recycle times.

He tried all my spare rechargeables AND a new set of Duracells because he thought maybe the 580 wanted 6V and not the 5.2V put out by NiMH. With the 420 I was getting almost instantaneous recycles (and my batteries weren't fresh), whereas he was having to wait several seconds [long seconds too, although we never timed it]. I'll email him and ask him to time the recycles.

pathfinder

I was thinking about this today, and it makes sense that the 580ex WILL take longer ( slightly ) to charge the capacitor than the 430 ex.

They both have exactly the same power source - 6 volts - 4 AA cells - but the 580ex delivers more light, hence needs more power, hence has a larger capacitor to charge with the same power source. It must take a little longer. You're right.

But when I actually use my 580ex and my 430ex, I very rarely completely discharge the capacitor, so they actually are ready almost instantaneously. If they are discharging fully, I might raise the ISO to help since the image noise is so low with Canon digital images....

I found rechargeables do take longer than Lithium cells too. Lithiums have higher voltage than rechargeable NiMHs, 1.545 volts versus 1.2 volts.

Scott_Quier

docwalker wrote:

I have not had a chance to put the Gary Fong Diffuser on it as I have the wrong size.

At the risk of high-jacking this thread, let me say that I have the 580 and an LSPJ to fit it. Compared the BetterBounceCard (BBC) results with the LSPJ and I find that I am more pleased with those from the BBC. Just my $.02. YMMV.

mpmcleod

Scott_Quier wrote:

At the risk of high-jacking this thread, let me say that I have the 580 and an LSPJ to fit it. Compared the BetterBounceCard (BBC) results with the LSPJ and I find that I am more pleased with those from the BBC. Just my $.02. YMMV.

No high-jacking. I asked for thoughts on diffusers as well.

Thanks.

Scott_Quier

mpmcleod wrote:

No high-jacking. I asked for thoughts on diffusers as well.

Thanks.

Re-reading the original post, I see you're looking for comments with regards to portraits.

To avoid confusion:

• Indoors, I don't use my 580 for portraits.
• Outdoors, I use my 580 un-modified for fill, when I need it. If the sun's out, I use shade and reflectors for fill.
• The BBC is used at receptions, etc when I need to suppliment ambient light.

LiquidAir

With the either the 580 or the 430 (I have one of each) I usually set the camera on manual and I set the apeture as wide as I can tolerate for the shot (typically either f/2.8 or f/4) and the ISO 400 or sometimes even 800. That forces the ETTL-2 metering to dial down the flash power fairly low so I get faster cycle times and my batteries last longer. To set up this way you must use some kind of diffustion for most shots because the direct flash even on minimum power is too strong.

On the battery question, I currently use NiMH batteries and as long as I keep the power level under control the cycle time is not an issue. However, if I shooting near full power it is a problem. As I get more experience with the flash I am using it more so I am considering going to some sort of external power pack.

As for portraits with Canon flashes, my quick and easy trick is bounce the flash off a white wall and position my subject with one shoulder toward the wall. From a lighting point of view this essentially makes the wall behave like a large window. I find the easiest way to do this is to put the flash on a stand and trigger it with the ST-E2. That way I can set up the light for the best soft illumination and not worry about spoiling it when I move the camera. If I need some fill, I usually set the shutter speed to underexpose the ambient by a stop and gel the flash to match the color temperatures.

pathfinder

Scott_Quier wrote:

At the risk of high-jacking this thread, let me say that I have the 580 and an LSPJ to fit it. Compared the BetterBounceCard (BBC) results with the LSPJ and I find that I am more pleased with those from the BBC. Just my $.02. YMMV.

Indoors where there is something to bounce off of, I agree that the BBC ( foamie white diffuser ) works very nicely. I have one folded down on both my Speedlites and leave them there for instant use as needed.

I think the Fong LSPJ was devised specifically for use in churches and other venues where bouncing off a very high gabled ceiling will not work very well. The Fong LSPJ works fine as a bare bulb diffuser - you just lose a lot of power.

pathfinder

LiquidAir wrote:

With the either the 580 or the 430 (I have one of each) I usually set the camera on manual and I set the apeture as wide as I can tolerate for the shot (typically either f/2.8 or f/4) and the ISO 400 or sometimes even 800. That forces the ETTL-2 metering to dial down the flash power fairly low so I get faster cycle times and my batteries last longer. To set up this way you must use some kind of diffustion for most shots because the direct flash even on minimum power is too strong.

That is what I reported doing for Christmas candids here

I was shooting Manual Mode ISO 400 f4 1/160th

On the battery question, I currently use NiMH batteries and as long as I keep the power level under control the cycle time is not an issue. However, if I shooting near full power it is a problem. As I get more experience with the flash I am using it more so I am considering going to some sort of external power pack.

The Canon CP-E2 Battery Pack works well for me too. But I rarely need it shooting as you described indoors. I will use it for shooting out of doors with a Better Beamer.

I switched to Lithium AAs because I get lazy about recharging and I can get away with one spare set of 4 AAs, instead having to carry several. Both ways work.

As for portraits with Canon flashes, my quick and easy trick is bounce the flash off a white wall and position my subject with one shoulder toward the wall. From a lighting point of view this essentially makes the wall behave like a large window. I find the easiest way to do this is to put the flash on a stand and trigger it with the ST-E2. That way I can set up the light for the best soft illumination and not worry about spoiling it when I move the camera. If I need some fill, I usually set the shutter speed to underexpose the ambient by a stop and gel the flash to match the color temperatures.

Again precisely what I did at Christmas. The ability to move about without having to redirect the light constantly is great - like shooting in a studio, but no worry about exposure changes as you move about because it is constantly monitored via the ST-E2.

You can even use two Speedlites at opposite ends of the room in a 3:1 ratio with the ST-E2 controller. The ST-E2 is a good focusing aid in dim light also.

Combining the off camera flash WITH the BBC foamie bounce diffusers works every nice indeed.