I use an XTI and 430 ex and I did notice that when I use a mode other than Program with my flash, they come out brighter. I've been learning raw and weening myself off of Program for a while now but I'm still not ready for full manual (well for a new manual transmission sports car, I am).
Fortunately, since I started reading these forums I started shooting all raw and can adjust pics later.
How do you like the 430 ex by the way--- we sell that at work so it's tempting to purchase (employee discount...). Or should I hold off and buy a stronger flash elsewhere?
Heh and yeah I know the feeling of not ready for full manual ::intimidation::
I can drive a manual car though! (not super well but enough to get me from a to b) :P
Too busy editing my above post. Finally finished it.
I love it. I'm still learning how to use it and I need to use it more than I already do... for fill and all the night time and low light indoor shots I take. It has helped with my red eye and it's definitely better than the on camera flash.
Canon 40D : Canon 400D : Canon Elan 7NE : Canon 580EX : 2 x Canon 430EX : Canon 24-70 f2.8L : Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM : Canon 28-135mm f/3.5 IS : 18-55mm f/3.5 : 4GB Sandisk Extreme III : 2GB Sandisk Extreme III : 2 x 1GB Sandisk Ultra II : Sekonik L358
I don't have an example to post, mainly because I'm too anal once it gets onto the computer and goes into photoshop and I fix it right away...
...but I'd say easily 90-95% of all the shots I take (with onboard flash, rebel xti, + kit lens) are always extremely too dark. I can usually fix them to acceptable levels by playing with curves and highlights and levels... but I want to be able to take photos that come out good from the start!
I've been shooting generally in ISO 400 for situations with good indoor light (lower light I up the ISO of course)... generally I am shooting in Program... although I do every now and then shove it into automatic to see if it's just something I'm doing, but I get the same darkness levels there...
What changes should I change? Is it just because the onboard flash is wimpy? Does my lens suck at taking in light? Please help me! thanks
Shima, the problem is that your camera is underexposing the shot, which makes it dark. Using program or full auto is never good as the camera has no idea what your subject is and it takes a reading from all over. You can use AV ot TV mode and set the exposure yourself. if on those settings you still have the problem, you can adjust the exposure by either a slower shutter or a larger aperture until the shot is correct. At that point you can set exposure compensation for the amont of change you want. My Rebel needs +2/3 stop compensation. Read your manual to find out how to set compensation. If it only happens with your flash on, then do the same series of tests with the flash and when you find the correct exposure, set the flash compensation to give correct exposure. My advice to you is to stay away from auto exposure and/or auto focus as neither is going to be accurate. I use my EOS 300D at straight manual with ocasionally using either TV or AV and I set the other where I want it.. At first it may seem intimidating but you will soon catch on and find your photos improving a lot, both exposure and focus.
In my photo classes I have the students use straight manual for the length of the class and can see a definite improvement in just a few weeks. By the end of the 8 week class most of them stay with full manual. Give it a try. If you have a question ask here or send me a PM. either way I'll answer.
Photography: the art of seeing the uncommon in the common.
+++++++ CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5 Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras. Tair 135mm 2.8 Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Oh, you are talking about flash! Well, two things. The onboard flash is not designed to take great photos that show the subject *and* the background properly lit at the same time. With onboard flash, it's one or the other.
Secondly, many cameras provide flash exposure compensation (FEC) that works much the same way as regular exposure compensation. Since the onboard flash is typically auto exposure, it shoots for gray just like a camera does. So by overriding the flash, you can get better exposures.
If your camera does not provide FEC, then all is not lost, you just need to use a manual hotshoe flash like the Sunpak 383. With that type of flash, you can bounce off the ceiling, control the flash power output, and generally have much more control over the outcome of flash photos.
And remember, you when using flash, you control the ambient light exposure with the shutter speed, but the flash exposure with the aperture. The flash is so quick, that the light pulse is typically over before the shutter has a chance to do much of anything.
So say I have the camera set to f/4, 1/125, ISO 800 and the subject looks good, but the background is alittle dim. Just drop the shutter speed to 1/60 and the subjects exposure won't really change, but the background will look a stop brighter.
And conversely, if the subject is too bright by a stop, you can drop the flash power to get a better look, but if you make the aperture smaller (f/5.6), the subject will look better but the background will also be a stop dimmer, so you may have to go to 1/60th of a second to compensate (assuming the shutter was at 1/125th).
The trick with shooting flash is to get your exposure for the ambient background set, then add your flash to balance it, so you wind up with a nice looking combo. It is more complicated, but mastering flash gives you super powers to shoot in any condition and produce photos that are impossible for mortal photographers to get. You will be the envy of your peers ;-)
l
Shay, just a few points of disagreement. On my 300D set on manual and shutter on 1/125, by adjusting the aperture I control both amount of light on subject and on background. The shutter has no effect as it is constant. just adjust the F stop and pay no attention to the meter as the flash puts out the same light each time. There is no change in manual mode. In AV mode, I have my shutter set to 1/200 sec always and changing the aperture completely changes the exposure but the shutter remains the same. I am also getting correct exposurte on background, depending on distance of BG from subject. The flash is only a GN 25 on the 300D so won't give sufficient light at any distance past about 10ft. If you need BG and subject lit evenly then you have to move subject back toward BG and then you have shadow problems caused by the flash. You can get a bounce card for the built in flash or even make one by taping a piece of white card stock under the flash lens. Of course with a high ceiling you won't have enough light. As you say, the built in flash is pretty much useless. I use mine to catch my grandson running around and it suffices for that as I don't care about BG. Also works in large open spaces as BG is so far away as to be non-existant. At any rate, the flash is not automatic when in manual mode, the photog controls it. Set a shutter speed of, say, 1/125 and then tale photos of a subject at varying apertures and you will see the changes in the photo as the apertures change. Flash puts out same light each time. Actually it works the same in AV mode. As I said, my shutter is set at 1/200 in AV so if I change the aperture the exposure changes. If I set on, say F5.6, and the exposure is wrong, the flash will not compensate, you have to make the changes manually to get the exposure correct. I just played with mine for about 1/2 hour to see how it works cause what you said didn't seem right to me. I was using a 75mm lens in my living room and shooting a rocking chair of medium brown, about 18% gray in B&W, so that didn't have any effect on the exposure.
If the camera is set to TV then the flash controls the exposure, changing the light from the flash. This is when FEC comes into play. TV & AV treat exposure with flash totally differently. In TV, if you change shutter speed then the flash duration changes to give you the same exposure as before. Also Tv and EV treat exposure with flash differently than without flash.
I have the hack in my 300D which gives some of the features of the 10D, one of which is the ability to set the shutter speed at 1/200sec in AV mode and it can't be changed by the flash.
Also what you said about setting the exposure for the background and then use the flash won't work on mine either. In AV mode both shutter speed and F stop change from the setting you put in. The light put on the BG by the flash controls what you see in the BG. I imagine using a hot shoe mount flash or a hammer unit like the Metz won't change the above, but haven't tried with either so can't say. Again, though, in TV mode, the shutter is set by you and the flash sets the exposure depending on the FEC you have cranked in.
As you said, if you need more light, get a shoe mount flash or one like the Metz 60 et al. Just make sure the flash has a high enough guide Number to suffice for your needs. I would think a GN of 100 (feet) would take care of normal uses. Even a 50 or 60 would be better than the built in unit. Those things are a waste.
Photography: the art of seeing the uncommon in the common.
+++++++ CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5 Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras. Tair 135mm 2.8 Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Shay's comments were strictly in reference to an external, totally Manual, strobe that puts out exactly the same amount of light each time it is triggered. In that situation, the light on the foreground is strictly controlled by the aperture as the strobe light pulse is very brief in duration. The lighting of the background by ambient lighting IS controlled by the shutter speed which has no effect on the strobe lit areas. Shay is dead on correct about this. This is also true when shooting with an EOS 430ex in ETTL with the camera in Manual Mode also.
The little built in flash in the 300D ( or 10D or 20D etc ) is not capable of shooting in strictly Manual Flash Mode. When the 300D is set to Manual Mode, the flash is determined by the expsoure meter in the camera and quenched after proper exposure of the forground subject.
Shima - High Speed Synch is Canon's phrase for what used to be called Focal Plane shutter synch - The strobe does not blink once, but emits a series of pulses of light over about 1/10th of a second. This is because a focal plane shutter ( like in a DSLR) is not completely open across the entire sensor at shutter speeds faster than 1/200th or 1/250th or so seconds. This has to do with how a focal plane shutter works - just think of one curtain on a stage closing before another. You cannot do High Speed Synch with the built in flash on a 20D. It requires an external EOS system flash like the 580ex or the 430ex. When you shoot at 1/500th second or faster, there is NO PERIOD when the entire sensor is exposed to the light entirely at the same instant - think of it as a stripe of light passing across the sensor, like a scanner head in a flat bed scanner - only very quickly.
Learn to use your camera in Manual Mode, or Av or Tv. Abandon the automatic modes and your images will improve significantly.
Learn to use your camera in Manual Mode, or Av or Tv. Abandon the automatic modes and your images will improve significantly.
After all the emphasis on this fact, it seems that I do indeed need to start getting out of my shell and fully embracing the manual settings...well I was in need of a new year's resolution, looks like I just found one!
Shima - High Speed Synch is Canon's phrase for what used to be called Focal Plane shutter synch - The strobe does not blink once, but emits a series of pulses of light over about 1/10th of a second. This is because a focal plane shutter ( like in a DSLR) is not completely open across the entire sensor at shutter speeds faster than 1/200th or 1/250th or so seconds. This has to do with how a focal plane shutter works - just think of one curtain on a stage closing before another. You cannot do High Speed Synch with the built in flash on a 20D. It requires an external EOS system flash like the 580ex or the 430ex. When you shoot at 1/500th second or faster, there is NO PERIOD when the entire sensor is exposed to the light - think of it as a stripe of light passing across the sensor, like a scanner head in a flat bed scanner - only very quickly.
Learn to use your camera in Manual Mode, or Av or Tv. Abandon the automatic modes and your images will improve significantly.
Pathfinder, thanks for the corrections.
Shima & pathfinder; In the olden days, before the prevalence of electronic flash, we used flash bulbs and for focal plane shutter we had specialbulbs, labeled, what else?, FP bulbs. These were made to have a quick arrival at peak brightness and a long duration through the whole of the focal plane shutter's opening. Thats why on some old cameras you see an f flash position. My oldSpeed Graphic had 2 sync points, 1 on the front shutter for high speed flash ( flash bulbs, that is) and one on the FP shutter for the special bulbs. If either of you are familiar with electronics, the FP bulb had what looked like a square wave for the light emission.
Sima, as Pathfinder said and, I believe, some others, do get off the auto modes. You will learn much more and more quickly in straight Manual. I really wish there were a good DSLR with no auto modes at all, including auto Focus. Makes people too lazy to do photography. The remain "snap shooters".
Shima, it really isn't as hard as you think, that is the dread factor creeping in. I learned it as a 13 year old and you can also if you decide you want to do it. There are lots of books out there which wil help you learn. I have a bunch of them I use in preparing my class syllabus. Some better than others. If you want some names of books which are good and easy to understand let me know, I'll give you some. I buy my Photo books on ebay at pretty good prices compared to Amazon.
Photography: the art of seeing the uncommon in the common.
+++++++ CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5 Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras. Tair 135mm 2.8 Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Shima, it really isn't as hard as you think, that is the dread factor creeping in. I learned it as a 13 year old and you can also if you decide you want to do it. There are lots of books out there which wil help you learn. I have a bunch of them I use in preparing my class syllabus. Some better than others. If you want some names of books which are good and easy to understand let me know, I'll give you some. I buy my Photo books on ebay at pretty good prices compared to Amazon.
So far the only two books I own that relate to photography (and this is pretty sad considering I'm a person who owns almost 400 books between myself and my husband, but anyway) are the Understanding Exposure book that everyone highly acclaimed on here (received that for Christmas this year) and Photoshop CS2 RAW by Mikkel Aaland (was looking for something to help me get started in RAW, and having PS CS2, figured that was a decent looking book).
I really love the explanations in the Exposure book from what I've read in it so far, and yeah any other books you can recommend which will help me do better in the area of shooting in pure manual settings would be a great help.
I think the automatic "addiction" is like a drug "addiction." You know it's wrong, you know you need to stop, but it's oh so hard until you finally get some help, lol.
Weaning yourself from shooting in Auto modes or Program, does not mean that you cannot use the meter in your camera, Shima. Av and Tv can be very useful also. The histogram is fundamental to understanding exposure today.
Use the meter and the histogram to get the exposure right and then shoot with that aperture and shutter speed in Manual Mode until the lighting changes. Then meter the light again. You will quickly begin to understand how to adjust your camera as the lighting changes. Front lit, side lit, back lit, etc.
Read and use the information about Sunny 16 that has been posted here on dgrin to get an idea what exposures should be out of doors, even if you do not have a light meter.
Weaning yourself from shooting in Auto modes or Program, does not mean that you cannot use the meter in your camera, Shima. Av and Tv can be very useful also. The histogram is fundamental to understanding exposure today.
Use the meter and the histogram to get the exposure right and then shoot with that aperture and shutter speed in Manual Mode until the lighting changes. Then meter the light again. You will quickly begin to understand how to adjust your camera as the lighting changes. Front lit, side lit, back lit, etc.
Read and use the information about Sunny 16 that has been posted here on dgrin to get an idea what exposures should be out of doors, even if you do not have a light meter.
The histogram freaks me out (over intimidates me). I'm sure it's actually probably rather simple to read, but I presently have no idea how things should look and how one modifies based on what the histogram shows. (I do know how to pull it up when I'm reviewing pictures though and have glanced at it before, just not knowing really what I was reading and how it affects thigns).
Any good pointers for reading histograms or a website that might explain that in depth?
The last one is mainly about the zone system, but it shows some histogram action too, which combined, might help make the concepts a little more clear.
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
Use the meter and the histogram to get the exposure right and then shoot with that aperture and shutter speed in Manual Mode until the lighting changes. Then meter the light again. You will quickly begin to understand how to adjust your camera as the lighting changes. Front lit, side lit, back lit, etc.
Pathfinder, as far as I know, all the Canon digitals allow metering on manual as well as other modes. I don't believe in waiting "til the light changes" to meter again, I meter every shot. In manual I like the fact that as you meter you can change either aperture, speed, or both to stop motion, gain DOF, whatever. I find that often the light change is so subtle that you never realize it, especially when you stand in sunlight and are shooting in to shade, or vice versa. Doing as you suggest is a dangerous habit to pick up as there are going to be times when the shot is one and done.
When I first started using a camera, there were no exposure meters, at least as far as I knew then. That being the case I had to use my eyes as the meter and after a while shooting that way, experience tells you how to shoot in any situation with different films. I shot without a meter for almost 30 years until I bought my first Canon F1 and the Luna Pro meter which i am still using.
Sima, I have two books I can recommend to you. These are books I use to put my curriculum together.
1. "The Camera Book" by Popular Photography Books, edited by Michael J. Langford. ISBN 0-87165-073-8
This book covers all the basics and tells you everything you need to know about cameras for right now. It covers lenses, how they are built, depth of field ( focus) angle of view for different lenses, shutters, different lighting conditions, metering for both hand held and in camera meters, and more. There are lots of examples of different photos demonstrating conditions you might meet in your photography. I told a woman on ebay about this book and she found it. I don't know if it was on ebay or at Amazon. You can try both.
The second book I was going to suggest to you is one youmay not find. It is a course book for photo classes in a school and a friend found it and got it for me. I'll give you the name just in case.
You may be able to write or call the University and see if the book is still available. It has an exellent curriculum with periodic tests and forms to carry with you and record each shot. Don't worry about the Black and White in the title, all the info applies to either.
If I find any more I'll post them here. I'm not so sure about getting into histograms at the present. If you don't understand the basics of photography all the histograms will do is confuse you. All you need to know at present is if it is in the middle of the window it is good. Once you understand exposure you probably won't need histograms. I only use histograms once in a blue moon and that only when the lighting is difficult. I put my faith in my knowledge and my examination of each shot on the screen of my camera.
I hope all this helps you Shima
BTW did you live in Japan? My sister was there for three years and I visited her every time my ship was in port and once took 10 days with her. I was picking up Japanese enough to more or less converse with some University of Tokyo students one night. They were practicing english and we were practicing Japanese. This was in an area of Tokyo where no round eyes were and we wandered around to restaurants, bars, a dessert shop and tried to order in Japanese. The people in these places were hysterical as we tried to write the Japanese script (Katana?) for the desserts we wanted and gave it to the waitress. She called the manager who didn'tunderstand us either but we ended up getting free desserts and left a good tip for the waitress. I love the menus there, the little effigies in the windows. Neat. Any how, I think people are very pleased when you make an effort to speak their language even if you butcher it. We even tried to talk to some Aussies in their language when we were in England.
OK, nough reminiscing for now.
Michael:ivar
Photography: the art of seeing the uncommon in the common.
+++++++ CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5 Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras. Tair 135mm 2.8 Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Part of me says that I'm supposed to blame myself and not the instrument for bad or underexposed pictures. The other says there's just something with the camera because I went through all my Cancun shots and there were definitely some that I had to bump up the exposure in RAw no matter what mode I shot in. I didn't really notice an underexposure problem when I had the 350.
Pathfinder, as far as I know, all the Canon digitals allow metering on manual as well as other modes. I don't believe in waiting "til the light changes" to meter again, I meter every shot. In manual I like the fact that as you meter you can change either aperture, speed, or both to stop motion, gain DOF, whatever. I find that often the light change is so subtle that you never realize it, especially when you stand in sunlight and are shooting in to shade, or vice versa. Doing as you suggest is a dangerous habit to pick up as there are going to be times when the shot is one and done.
When I first started using a camera, there were no exposure meters, at least as far as I knew then. That being the case I had to use my eyes as the meter and after a while shooting that way, experience tells you how to shoot in any situation with different films. I shot without a meter for almost 30 years until I bought my first Canon F1 and the Luna Pro meter which i am still using.
Sima, I have two books I can recommend to you. These are books I use to put my curriculum together.
1. "The Camera Book" by Popular Photography Books, edited by Michael J. Langford. ISBN 0-87165-073-8
This book covers all the basics and tells you everything you need to know about cameras for right now. It covers lenses, how they are built, depth of field ( focus) angle of view for different lenses, shutters, different lighting conditions, metering for both hand held and in camera meters, and more. There are lots of examples of different photos demonstrating conditions you might meet in your photography. I told a woman on ebay about this book and she found it. I don't know if it was on ebay or at Amazon. You can try both.
The second book I was going to suggest to you is one youmay not find. It is a course book for photo classes in a school and a friend found it and got it for me. I'll give you the name just in case.
You may be able to write or call the University and see if the book is still available. It has an exellent curriculum with periodic tests and forms to carry with you and record each shot. Don't worry about the Black and White in the title, all the info applies to either.
If I find any more I'll post them here. I'm not so sure about getting into histograms at the present. If you don't understand the basics of photography all the histograms will do is confuse you. All you need to know at present is if it is in the middle of the window it is good. Once you understand exposure you probably won't need histograms. I only use histograms once in a blue moon and that only when the lighting is difficult. I put my faith in my knowledge and my examination of each shot on the screen of my camera.
I hope all this helps you Shima
BTW did you live in Japan? My sister was there for three years and I visited her every time my ship was in port and once took 10 days with her. I was picking up Japanese enough to more or less converse with some University of Tokyo students one night. They were practicing english and we were practicing Japanese. This was in an area of Tokyo where no round eyes were and we wandered around to restaurants, bars, a dessert shop and tried to order in Japanese. The people in these places were hysterical as we tried to write the Japanese script (Katana?) for the desserts we wanted and gave it to the waitress. She called the manager who didn'tunderstand us either but we ended up getting free desserts and left a good tip for the waitress. I love the menus there, the little effigies in the windows. Neat. Any how, I think people are very pleased when you make an effort to speak their language even if you butcher it. We even tried to talk to some Aussies in their language when we were in England.
OK, nough reminiscing for now.
Michael:ivar
Fabulous I'll look into those two books and see if I can locate them.
I have been to Japan once, for 10 days on research in 2004. I plan to go back on another research trip next year... and hopefully a year or so after that actually move there and live there w/ my husband for a couple of years to work on my fluency and do research. I'm presently at a conversation fluency. I am working on my technical fluency so that one day I can translate. Oh and alphabet you're referring to is katakana (カタカナ), it's used for writing loan words (ie English and a few others). The other alphabet is hiragana ひらがな used for native words.
I can't wait to get to go back next year with my DSLR. I hope to be much better are using this thing by then. When I first went to Japan I had my crappy Kodak... it was the first digital I ever owned myself... but looking back on it, it was pretty low quality, heh. It was before my canon days...
As far as photography goes, I've been doing photography for quite some time (all amateur stuff of couse) but never once had a formal class in any of this. I often end up shooting lots of events for people because I understand enough to do better than the average joe any day of the week... but of course if put next to one you pro's, I am still far behind. I love taking pictures for the sake of taking pictures--- but realize there is so much technical jargon and techiques that I still need to learn...
Funny thing, when I went to tech school for Computer Repair (back in HS 2001-2002, my jr year) I was right next to the photography classroom... oh how I longed to be in their room many a day... but alas, this computer repair training has certainly paid off giving me a much better "pay my way through undergrad and now grad school / married life" than flipping burgers or working at some other temp job
If I had the time and money though I'd certainly love to take a formal class sometime. Until then, that's what I come to the forums for!!!
Shima, just stick with it and it will come toyou. It just takes lots of practise to get there. Just imagine, when I started I was using film and 2¼X3¼ at that. Learning got pretty expensive, specially for a 13/14 year old. I had towork to afford my addiction. No Photographer's Anonymous.
Just don't let yourself get frustrated.
I envy you the opportunity to go to Japan as that was my favorite place to go. I especially enjoyed nite photography in Tokyo. Wondermous lights.
Photography: the art of seeing the uncommon in the common.
+++++++ CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5 Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras. Tair 135mm 2.8 Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Part of me says that I'm supposed to blame myself and not the instrument for bad or underexposed pictures. The other says there's just something with the camera because I went through all my Cancun shots and there were definitely some that I had to bump up the exposure in RAw no matter what mode I shot in. I didn't really notice an underexposure problem when I had the 350.
Everyware, I read the page and DPR didn't offer any remedies for it. I would suggest you use exposure compensation of about +2/3 stop and see how that does. If it corrects it then keep it in. I have my 300D cranked up to 2/3 stop correction on most of my photographs. You also might try manual exposure and see what that does. If that doesn't help then I would suggest talking to Canon about it.
Photography: the art of seeing the uncommon in the common.
+++++++ CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5 Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras. Tair 135mm 2.8 Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
YOu need to switch to manual exposure when you are inside using flash. once you get the exposure where you want it, you can just ride the flash exposure compensation so that the flash is bright enough. Trust me, this is the easier way. Take a picture using automatic settings, go to manual and put those settings in, then use the flash exposure compensation to get the flash the way you want it. It is just too complex to have the camera all automatic.
YOu need to switch to manual exposure when you are inside using flash. once you get the exposure where you want it, you can just ride the flash exposure compensation so that the flash is bright enough. Trust me, this is the easier way. Take a picture using automatic settings, go to manual and put those settings in, then use the flash exposure compensation to get the flash the way you want it. It is just too complex to have the camera all automatic.
Hopefully in the past 5 years Shima has picked up a bit more about exposure.
Comments
How do you like the 430 ex by the way--- we sell that at work so it's tempting to purchase (employee discount...). Or should I hold off and buy a stronger flash elsewhere?
Heh and yeah I know the feeling of not ready for full manual ::intimidation::
I can drive a manual car though! (not super well but enough to get me from a to b) :P
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I love it. I'm still learning how to use it and I need to use it more than I already do... for fill and all the night time and low light indoor shots I take. It has helped with my red eye and it's definitely better than the on camera flash.
dak.smugmug.com
Shima, the problem is that your camera is underexposing the shot, which makes it dark. Using program or full auto is never good as the camera has no idea what your subject is and it takes a reading from all over. You can use AV ot TV mode and set the exposure yourself. if on those settings you still have the problem, you can adjust the exposure by either a slower shutter or a larger aperture until the shot is correct. At that point you can set exposure compensation for the amont of change you want. My Rebel needs +2/3 stop compensation. Read your manual to find out how to set compensation. If it only happens with your flash on, then do the same series of tests with the flash and when you find the correct exposure, set the flash compensation to give correct exposure. My advice to you is to stay away from auto exposure and/or auto focus as neither is going to be accurate. I use my EOS 300D at straight manual with ocasionally using either TV or AV and I set the other where I want it.. At first it may seem intimidating but you will soon catch on and find your photos improving a lot, both exposure and focus.
In my photo classes I have the students use straight manual for the length of the class and can see a definite improvement in just a few weeks. By the end of the 8 week class most of them stay with full manual. Give it a try. If you have a question ask here or send me a PM. either way I'll answer.
Good light
Michael
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/view/tabblos/mikeb380/
========
CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM
CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5
Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras.
Tair 135mm 2.8
Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
If the camera is set to TV then the flash controls the exposure, changing the light from the flash. This is when FEC comes into play. TV & AV treat exposure with flash totally differently. In TV, if you change shutter speed then the flash duration changes to give you the same exposure as before. Also Tv and EV treat exposure with flash differently than without flash.
I have the hack in my 300D which gives some of the features of the 10D, one of which is the ability to set the shutter speed at 1/200sec in AV mode and it can't be changed by the flash.
Also what you said about setting the exposure for the background and then use the flash won't work on mine either. In AV mode both shutter speed and F stop change from the setting you put in. The light put on the BG by the flash controls what you see in the BG. I imagine using a hot shoe mount flash or a hammer unit like the Metz won't change the above, but haven't tried with either so can't say. Again, though, in TV mode, the shutter is set by you and the flash sets the exposure depending on the FEC you have cranked in.
As you said, if you need more light, get a shoe mount flash or one like the Metz 60 et al. Just make sure the flash has a high enough guide Number to suffice for your needs. I would think a GN of 100 (feet) would take care of normal uses. Even a 50 or 60 would be better than the built in unit. Those things are a waste.
Cheers
Michael
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/view/tabblos/mikeb380/
========
CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM
CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5
Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras.
Tair 135mm 2.8
Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Shay's comments were strictly in reference to an external, totally Manual, strobe that puts out exactly the same amount of light each time it is triggered. In that situation, the light on the foreground is strictly controlled by the aperture as the strobe light pulse is very brief in duration. The lighting of the background by ambient lighting IS controlled by the shutter speed which has no effect on the strobe lit areas. Shay is dead on correct about this. This is also true when shooting with an EOS 430ex in ETTL with the camera in Manual Mode also.
The little built in flash in the 300D ( or 10D or 20D etc ) is not capable of shooting in strictly Manual Flash Mode. When the 300D is set to Manual Mode, the flash is determined by the expsoure meter in the camera and quenched after proper exposure of the forground subject.
Shima - High Speed Synch is Canon's phrase for what used to be called Focal Plane shutter synch - The strobe does not blink once, but emits a series of pulses of light over about 1/10th of a second. This is because a focal plane shutter ( like in a DSLR) is not completely open across the entire sensor at shutter speeds faster than 1/200th or 1/250th or so seconds. This has to do with how a focal plane shutter works - just think of one curtain on a stage closing before another. You cannot do High Speed Synch with the built in flash on a 20D. It requires an external EOS system flash like the 580ex or the 430ex. When you shoot at 1/500th second or faster, there is NO PERIOD when the entire sensor is exposed to the light entirely at the same instant - think of it as a stripe of light passing across the sensor, like a scanner head in a flat bed scanner - only very quickly.
Learn to use your camera in Manual Mode, or Av or Tv. Abandon the automatic modes and your images will improve significantly.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
After all the emphasis on this fact, it seems that I do indeed need to start getting out of my shell and fully embracing the manual settings...well I was in need of a new year's resolution, looks like I just found one!
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
Shima & pathfinder; In the olden days, before the prevalence of electronic flash, we used flash bulbs and for focal plane shutter we had specialbulbs, labeled, what else?, FP bulbs. These were made to have a quick arrival at peak brightness and a long duration through the whole of the focal plane shutter's opening. Thats why on some old cameras you see an f flash position. My oldSpeed Graphic had 2 sync points, 1 on the front shutter for high speed flash ( flash bulbs, that is) and one on the FP shutter for the special bulbs. If either of you are familiar with electronics, the FP bulb had what looked like a square wave for the light emission.
Sima, as Pathfinder said and, I believe, some others, do get off the auto modes. You will learn much more and more quickly in straight Manual. I really wish there were a good DSLR with no auto modes at all, including auto Focus. Makes people too lazy to do photography. The remain "snap shooters".
Shima, it really isn't as hard as you think, that is the dread factor creeping in. I learned it as a 13 year old and you can also if you decide you want to do it. There are lots of books out there which wil help you learn. I have a bunch of them I use in preparing my class syllabus. Some better than others. If you want some names of books which are good and easy to understand let me know, I'll give you some. I buy my Photo books on ebay at pretty good prices compared to Amazon.
Cheers
Michael
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/view/tabblos/mikeb380/
========
CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM
CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5
Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras.
Tair 135mm 2.8
Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
So far the only two books I own that relate to photography (and this is pretty sad considering I'm a person who owns almost 400 books between myself and my husband, but anyway) are the Understanding Exposure book that everyone highly acclaimed on here (received that for Christmas this year) and Photoshop CS2 RAW by Mikkel Aaland (was looking for something to help me get started in RAW, and having PS CS2, figured that was a decent looking book).
I really love the explanations in the Exposure book from what I've read in it so far, and yeah any other books you can recommend which will help me do better in the area of shooting in pure manual settings would be a great help.
I think the automatic "addiction" is like a drug "addiction." You know it's wrong, you know you need to stop, but it's oh so hard until you finally get some help, lol.
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
Use the meter and the histogram to get the exposure right and then shoot with that aperture and shutter speed in Manual Mode until the lighting changes. Then meter the light again. You will quickly begin to understand how to adjust your camera as the lighting changes. Front lit, side lit, back lit, etc.
Read and use the information about Sunny 16 that has been posted here on dgrin to get an idea what exposures should be out of doors, even if you do not have a light meter.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
The histogram freaks me out (over intimidates me). I'm sure it's actually probably rather simple to read, but I presently have no idea how things should look and how one modifies based on what the histogram shows. (I do know how to pull it up when I'm reviewing pictures though and have glanced at it before, just not knowing really what I was reading and how it affects thigns).
Any good pointers for reading histograms or a website that might explain that in depth?
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
Here are two:
http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=40
http://www.digitalsecrets.net/Sony/AdvancedKnow.html
The last one is mainly about the zone system, but it shows some histogram action too, which combined, might help make the concepts a little more clear.
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
Here are three more links re: histograms
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/open-letter.shtml
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
When I first started using a camera, there were no exposure meters, at least as far as I knew then. That being the case I had to use my eyes as the meter and after a while shooting that way, experience tells you how to shoot in any situation with different films. I shot without a meter for almost 30 years until I bought my first Canon F1 and the Luna Pro meter which i am still using.
Sima, I have two books I can recommend to you. These are books I use to put my curriculum together.
1. "The Camera Book" by Popular Photography Books, edited by Michael J. Langford. ISBN 0-87165-073-8
This book covers all the basics and tells you everything you need to know about cameras for right now. It covers lenses, how they are built, depth of field ( focus) angle of view for different lenses, shutters, different lighting conditions, metering for both hand held and in camera meters, and more. There are lots of examples of different photos demonstrating conditions you might meet in your photography. I told a woman on ebay about this book and she found it. I don't know if it was on ebay or at Amazon. You can try both.
The second book I was going to suggest to you is one youmay not find. It is a course book for photo classes in a school and a friend found it and got it for me. I'll give you the name just in case.
"Introduction to Black and White Photography" High school course syllabus --- by the University of Nebraska Lincoln --- for independent study high school PHTH 001 055 COPYRIGHT© 2003
You may be able to write or call the University and see if the book is still available. It has an exellent curriculum with periodic tests and forms to carry with you and record each shot. Don't worry about the Black and White in the title, all the info applies to either.
If I find any more I'll post them here. I'm not so sure about getting into histograms at the present. If you don't understand the basics of photography all the histograms will do is confuse you. All you need to know at present is if it is in the middle of the window it is good. Once you understand exposure you probably won't need histograms. I only use histograms once in a blue moon and that only when the lighting is difficult. I put my faith in my knowledge and my examination of each shot on the screen of my camera.
I hope all this helps you Shima
BTW did you live in Japan? My sister was there for three years and I visited her every time my ship was in port and once took 10 days with her. I was picking up Japanese enough to more or less converse with some University of Tokyo students one night. They were practicing english and we were practicing Japanese. This was in an area of Tokyo where no round eyes were and we wandered around to restaurants, bars, a dessert shop and tried to order in Japanese. The people in these places were hysterical as we tried to write the Japanese script (Katana?) for the desserts we wanted and gave it to the waitress. She called the manager who didn'tunderstand us either but we ended up getting free desserts and left a good tip for the waitress. I love the menus there, the little effigies in the windows. Neat. Any how, I think people are very pleased when you make an effort to speak their language even if you butcher it. We even tried to talk to some Aussies in their language when we were in England.
OK, nough reminiscing for now.
Michael:ivar
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/view/tabblos/mikeb380/
========
CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM
CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5
Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras.
Tair 135mm 2.8
Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page20.asp
read the bottom of that page...
dak.smugmug.com
Fabulous I'll look into those two books and see if I can locate them.
I have been to Japan once, for 10 days on research in 2004. I plan to go back on another research trip next year... and hopefully a year or so after that actually move there and live there w/ my husband for a couple of years to work on my fluency and do research. I'm presently at a conversation fluency. I am working on my technical fluency so that one day I can translate. Oh and alphabet you're referring to is katakana (カタカナ), it's used for writing loan words (ie English and a few others). The other alphabet is hiragana ひらがな used for native words.
I can't wait to get to go back next year with my DSLR. I hope to be much better are using this thing by then. When I first went to Japan I had my crappy Kodak... it was the first digital I ever owned myself... but looking back on it, it was pretty low quality, heh. It was before my canon days...
As far as photography goes, I've been doing photography for quite some time (all amateur stuff of couse) but never once had a formal class in any of this. I often end up shooting lots of events for people because I understand enough to do better than the average joe any day of the week... but of course if put next to one you pro's, I am still far behind. I love taking pictures for the sake of taking pictures--- but realize there is so much technical jargon and techiques that I still need to learn...
Funny thing, when I went to tech school for Computer Repair (back in HS 2001-2002, my jr year) I was right next to the photography classroom... oh how I longed to be in their room many a day... but alas, this computer repair training has certainly paid off giving me a much better "pay my way through undergrad and now grad school / married life" than flipping burgers or working at some other temp job
If I had the time and money though I'd certainly love to take a formal class sometime. Until then, that's what I come to the forums for!!!
Facebook: Friend / Fan || Twitter: @shimamizu || Google Plus
Just don't let yourself get frustrated.
I envy you the opportunity to go to Japan as that was my favorite place to go. I especially enjoyed nite photography in Tokyo. Wondermous lights.
Good light to you
Michael
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/view/tabblos/mikeb380/
========
CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM
CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5
Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras.
Tair 135mm 2.8
Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Everyware, I read the page and DPR didn't offer any remedies for it. I would suggest you use exposure compensation of about +2/3 stop and see how that does. If it corrects it then keep it in. I have my 300D cranked up to 2/3 stop correction on most of my photographs. You also might try manual exposure and see what that does. If that doesn't help then I would suggest talking to Canon about it.
Michael
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/view/tabblos/mikeb380/
========
CANON EOS XT- 350D - Sigma 28 - 80 mm macro, MC Zenitar EF 3.5/16MM
CANON F1n, Canon FD 28mm 2.8 SC, Canon FL 200mm 3.5
Jupiter 9 2.8/85mm used on bellows for EOS & F1 Bellows is M42 thread with adaptors for both cameras.
Tair 135mm 2.8
Kiev 88 6x6 camera - Mir 38B 3.5/65mm, Arsat B 2.8/80mm, J26V 250 mm tele
16 various FSU & German cameras
Hopefully in the past 5 years Shima has picked up a bit more about exposure.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Exposure Compensation does not co-exist with Manual Mode. Exposure Compensation is available in Av, Tv, and P.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin