Key Words

Andy · January 8, 2005

awesome, onethumb, ben, jt and baldy! thank you

this is huuuuuuuge

i see that smugmug has added keyword tags and also support of iptc data :clap :clap :clap

wtg, guys, thanks this is big.

Nikolai · January 8, 2005

And finally - drum roll - the TIMELINE!!!!

andy wrote:

awesome, onethumb, ben, jt and baldy! thank you this is huuuuuuuge

i see that smugmug has added keyword tags and also support of iptc data

wtg, guys, thanks this is big.

SmuGUYS! THANK YOU!!!!

I

Baldy · January 8, 2005

Yeah, onethumb's been working on some very cool, very important stuff that we've had a lot of requests for. He's doing a soft launch with the keyword tags because the database is busy scrounging up keywords from the filenames of our 13,500,000 images. It's going to take some time.

But you can see how to tag your photos with keywords using the bulk caption tool.

He went live with 3 other features too. One's in soft launch mode like keywords. Can you find them?

Erik Olsen · January 8, 2005

timeline
How do i get to this screen?
attachment.php?attachmentid=3389&stc=1

Baldy · January 8, 2005

Erik Olsen wrote:

How do i get to this screen?

Like keywords, it will appear on your home page and you can hide/show it and also move it higher or lower on your home page.

We're soft launching it like keywords, and that's why it hasn't shown up on your home page yet. The database has to scour EXIF for 13,500,000 images... Ouch that could take a long time.

Keywords on the other hand, don't come from EXIF and perhaps they'll be done by tomorrow.

Nikolai, I had missed in your post that you had noticed the timeline. Sorry about that.

If it looks like the timeline could take a long time before we can place it on your home page, I'll make a note of that in the help section.

Baldy · January 8, 2005

Hey Nikolai,

Take a look at the news page (link on the footer).

Nikolai · January 8, 2005

Hey, thanks a lot man!

Baldy wrote:

Hey Nikolai,

Take a look at the news page (link on the footer).

Appreciate it!

I have only one favor to ask: can you guys let me (and your other 3dparty vendors, e.g. rutt) know about those new kewl features sometime in advance?
I can do an NDA if you need it and promise to keep my big mouth shut (about new stuff, naturally:-) until you roll it out. That will actually kill at least several ducks in one shot:

all your customers would get all the tools ready and consistent at the same time
your R&D team will get (confidential) QA confirmation/bug reports from us
we would not be in (such) a rush to become compliant - hence less bugs on our side

Other than that - once again, great features, and thank you very much for the promotion (and the other things:-)

Cheers!

Nikolai · January 9, 2005

Is upload API updated?
I noticed some API changed witht he new info.
However I tried to use "Keywords" field in Upload Via Post method and it didn't pick it up.
I can't believe it: all my RAD coding and ignoring screaming children and wheeping wife for the last two hours - all in vain???

Here is the field order I tried:

KEY_ALBUMID
KEY_SESSIONID
KEY_CAPTION
KEY_KEYWORDS (= "Keywords", same as in createAlbum)
KEY_BYTECOUNT
KEY_MD5SUM
KEY_VERSION

It uploaded the images OK but put the filenames into keywords fields

OneThumb? Baldy?

sit · January 9, 2005

additional documentation

Baldy wrote:

If it looks like the timeline could take a long time before we can place it on your home page, I'll make a note of that in the help section.

Could you also add some information about how keywords and timeline browsing interact with categories, password-protected/private galleries and sharegroups?

For example,
* if a photo in a password protected gallery has tag 'foo', would it show up if someone is browsing the keyword, but lacks the cookie for the gallery?
* if you select a category (e.g. 'weddings') will the list of keywords be limited to those that are attached to photos in a gallery in the weddings category? (similarly for sub-categories).
* if you're browsing a sharegroup, will keywords be limited to those in the sharegroup?

Thanks!

DavidTO · January 9, 2005

Baldy wrote:

Hey Nikolai,

Take a look at the news page (link on the footer).

By soft launch, I take it that it's not fully implemented? In other words, the fact that I can't find the pictures by the keyword I entered for them is expected at this point?

Also, on the news page, no mention of Picturesync for us Mac folks? It's a nice alternative to the smugmug uploader.

Oh, and THANK YOU for keywords and timeline. I was drooling over that over at Flickr, and am MIGHTY pleased that you're making changes in that direction. You guys have built such a great place here, and the dgrinners and smugmuggers are damn lucky to have found you. Thanks.

(working on 320 referrals and that 20D!)

onethumb · January 9, 2005

andy wrote:

...and also support of iptc data

I should note, we've had IPTC support for years. Almost since our inception. We've been populating keywords the entire time, and feeding our search. Browsing them, and editing them, though, is new.

'Caption' and 'Keywords' are IPTC fields we check on every upload.

Don

onethumb · January 9, 2005

sit wrote:

Could you also add some information about how keywords and timeline browsing interact with categories, password-protected/private galleries and sharegroups?

For example,
* if a photo in a password protected gallery has tag 'foo', would it show up if someone is browsing the keyword, but lacks the cookie for the gallery?

Keywords and dates browsing for private and/or passworded galleries doesn't work. Only publicly viewable galleries.

sit wrote:

* if you select a category (e.g. 'weddings') will the list of keywords be limited to those that are attached to photos in a gallery in the weddings category? (similarly for sub-categories).

* if you're browsing a sharegroup, will keywords be limited to those in the sharegroup?

Nope, keywords can be browsed by overall user, or by all smugmug tags, but not categories, galleries, or subcategories.

Don

onethumb · January 9, 2005

DavidTO wrote:

By soft launch, I take it that it's not fully implemented? In other words, the fact that I can't find the pictures by the keyword I entered for them is expected at this point?

Also, on the news page, no mention of Picturesync for us Mac folks? It's a nice alternative to the smugmug uploader.

Oh, and THANK YOU for keywords and timeline. I was drooling over that over at Flickr, and am MIGHTY pleased that you're making changes in that direction. You guys have built such a great place here, and the dgrinners and smugmuggers are damn lucky to have found you. Thanks.

(working on 320 referrals and that 20D!)

It's a "softlaunch" in that it's not exposed publicly. But you can see it for yourself if you know what the super-secret URLs are.

A few words of caution first: we're still populating all "old" keywords. This will probably take at least a day. We're still populating all "old" upload times for images uploaded prior to today. That'll probably take a few days. Finally, we're still extracting old EXIF data for images uploaded more than a few months ago. That will probably take a month or more.

Now, those secret URLs:

http://www.smugmug.com/keyword/

http://yoursmugmugname.smugmug.com/keyword/

http://yoursmugmugname.smugmug.com/date/

http://yoursmugmugname.smugmug.com/?showGoodies=1

Enjoy!

Don

onethumb · January 9, 2005

Nikolai wrote:

Appreciate it!

I have only one favor to ask: can you guys let me (and your other 3dparty vendors, e.g. rutt) know about those new kewl features sometime in advance?
I can do an NDA if you need it and promise to keep my big mouth shut (about new stuff, naturally:-) until you roll it out. That will actually kill at least several ducks in one shot:
all your customers would get all the tools ready and consistent at the same time

your R&D team will get (confidential) QA confirmation/bug reports from us

we would not be in (such) a rush to become compliant - hence less bugs on our side

Other than that - once again, great features, and thank you very much for the promotion (and the other things:-)

Cheers!

Sorry, Nikolai, but smugmug's feature -> QA -> release cycle is so short, this wouldn't make a lot of sense. We only really started testing these features last night, and they're already released.

Plus, there's no API support for them at all yet.

If we ever have anything major, I'm sure we'll try to keep people in the loop.

Don

onethumb · January 9, 2005

Nikolai wrote:

I noticed some API changed witht he new info.
However I tried to use "Keywords" field in Upload Via Post method and it didn't pick it up.
I can't believe it: all my RAD coding and ignoring screaming children and wheeping wife for the last two hours - all in vain???

Here is the field order I tried:
KEY_ALBUMID

KEY_SESSIONID

KEY_CAPTION

KEY_KEYWORDS (= "Keywords", same as in createAlbum)

KEY_BYTECOUNT

KEY_MD5SUM

KEY_VERSION

It uploaded the images OK but put the filenames into keywords fields

OneThumb? Baldy?

You'll note it's not documented in the API docs. That's because it's not exposed.

If the images have IPTC Keywords or intelligent words within the filename, they'll get populated, otherwise you're outta luck. I'm sure we'll expose it at some point, but there's a long list of things that need to happen first.

Don

fish · January 9, 2005

You're too busy with this stuff to go have a burger* with me?

*or small fruit salad, in your case.

onethumb · January 9, 2005

onethumb wrote:

It's a "softlaunch" in that it's not exposed publicly. But you can see it for yourself if you know what the super-secret URLs are.

A few words of caution first: we're still populating all "old" keywords. This will probably take at least a day. We're still populating all "old" upload times for images uploaded prior to today. That'll probably take a few days. Finally, we're still extracting old EXIF data for images uploaded more than a few months ago. That will probably take a month or more.

Now, those secret URLs:

http://www.smugmug.com/keyword/

http://yoursmugmugname.smugmug.com/keyword/

http://yoursmugmugname.smugmug.com/date/

http://yoursmugmugname.smugmug.com/?showGoodies=1

Enjoy!

Don

Oh, one other thing: we're busy cleaning up all the bogus words and expanding our stopwords list as the keywords filter in. So you guys are getting a sneak preview of an unfinished thing, take it with big grains of salt.

Don

Baldy · January 9, 2005

DavidTO wrote:

Also, on the news page, no mention of Picturesync for us Mac folks? It's a nice alternative to the smugmug uploader.

Oh, and THANK YOU for keywords and timeline. I was drooling over that over at Flickr, and am MIGHTY pleased that you're making changes in that direction. You guys have built such a great place here, and the dgrinners and smugmuggers are damn lucky to have found you. Thanks.

(working on 320 referrals and that 20D!)

Are you liking Picturesync? I hadn't heard from enough users nor tried it myself to be confident yet in it. Someone said they were disappointed to learn that it resized their photos.

Flickr's done a couple of good things and those tags are one of them. Our implementation is somewhat different. We liked to see the number of results in ( ), plus we saw a lot of added noise by using gallery titles in the tags, so we left them out. It will be interesting to see if you think we made the right decisions as we build experience with it.

Thanks,
Baldy

dkapp · January 9, 2005

Baldy wrote:

Are you liking Picturesync? I hadn't heard from enough users nor tried it myself to be confident yet in it. Someone said they were disappointed to learn that it resized their photos.

Thanks,
Baldy

I just took a look at Picturesync. This thread is the first I've ever heard of it. Right off the start I had a few problems with the app, so I deleted it.

1.) to upload more than 8mb at a time you have to pay $8. Not a big deal if it was a useful app.

2.) Crashed a few times on me, and kept getting weird errors when I tried selecting iView Media Pro as my photo management app.

3.) I don't have iPhoto installed on my PB. When the app would error out trying to use iView, it would default to iPhoto. It wanted me to try & locate iPhoto, I'd hit cancel, it would come up again.

I'll stick with the smugmug uploader for now. So far it's been rock solid for me since day 1.

Dave

Andy · January 9, 2005

oops

onethumb wrote:

I should note, we've had IPTC support for years. Almost since our inception. We've been populating keywords the entire time, and feeding our search. Browsing them, and editing them, though, is new.

'Caption' and 'Keywords' are IPTC fields we check on every upload.

Don

in my excitement i muffed up

thanks don!

Aaron Wilson · January 9, 2005

Key Words
when doing key words under the new system.. what is the best way to seperate the words. is it better to do like sf, bridge? or no comma and have sf bridge?

Nikolai · January 9, 2005

Ah c..:-)

onethumb wrote:

Sorry, Nikolai, but smugmug's feature -> QA -> release cycle is so short, this wouldn't make a lot of sense. We only really started testing these features last night, and they're already released.

Plus, there's no API support for them at all yet.

If we ever have anything major, I'm sure we'll try to keep people in the loop.

Don

That's understandable. I simply was under impression that major changes like these usually go through more rigorous testing phase (you mentioned that about other features some time ago, e.g. shopping cart). Anyway, I think with the "soft launch" approach and having our users generally satisfied with what they have now, I think we can afford to have a few - temporary - discrepancies:-). So I much rather prefer to have the new features like keywords and being late on them myself as opposed to "being in the loop" and not having them at all or having them much later:-)

Thanks!

Nikolai · January 9, 2005

Oops

onethumb wrote:

You'll note it's not documented in the API docs. That's because it's not exposed.

If the images have IPTC Keywords or intelligent words within the filename, they'll get populated, otherwise you're outta luck. I'm sure we'll expose it at some point, but there's a long list of things that need to happen first.

Don

That does mean I'm out of luck.. And I already added that image keywords support - from UI to options to engine...Foolish me..:cry That what I get for "running in front of the steam engine" (that's Russian saying for this kind of things:-)

May I at least ask to consider adding them in this exact manner - just as another field in Upload Via Post, named "Keywords"? This would probably be THE most natural and easy way for you at any rate, but at least it would also mean that I don't have to recode things from scratch..

The REALLY sad:cry news (for me and for all twenty or so SE users, still have no idea about the size of my audience:-) is that since I already made the said change, I will not be able to deploy the new version until the API change. So if somebody was planning on having auto album creation, pre-downlowad EXIF/IPTC support and other - already added and tested - goodies - sorry, no can do..

Which is probably good: gives me more time to test and polish things, so I should be grateful instead of bitching:-)

Baldy · January 9, 2005

Aaron Wilson wrote:

when doing key words under the new system.. what is the best way to seperate the words. is it better to do like sf, bridge? or no comma and have sf bridge?

Hi Aaron,

Here's a reference that should help: http://www.smugmug.com/help/keywords-tags

You can just separate them by spaces, but if you want sf bridge to be one tag instead of two, it needs to be entered as "sf bridge".

(Actually, sf is too short to be a keyword tag unless it's entered as "sf.)

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Chris

lynnma · January 9, 2005

Baldy wrote:

Hi Aaron,

Here's a reference that should help: http://www.smugmug.com/help/keywords-tags

You can just separate them by spaces, but if you want sf bridge to be one tag instead of two, it needs to be entered as "sf bridge".

(Actually, sf is too short to be a keyword tag unless it's entered as "sf.)

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Chris

I'm happily going through all my shots adding key words.. it won't affect it that I'm seperating words by commas will it???

DavidTO · January 9, 2005

Baldy wrote:

Are you liking Picturesync? I hadn't heard from enough users nor tried it myself to be confident yet in it. Someone said they were disappointed to learn that it resized their photos.

Flickr's done a couple of good things and those tags are one of them. Our implementation is somewhat different. We liked to see the number of results in ( ), plus we saw a lot of added noise by using gallery titles in the tags, so we left them out. It will be interesting to see if you think we made the right decisions as we build experience with it.

Thanks,
Baldy

I haven't used it enough yet to have a real answer for you. Resizing is an option you can disable. When it was set to resize, as it is by default, it hung in the process. When I disabled the resizing, it works fine. I tested it one day after they began supporting smugmug, so I'm sure there could be some bugs to work out yet.

DavidTO · January 9, 2005

Keywords and private galleries
Will my family be able to search by keyword for private galleries, too?

If not, what's the best way to keep galleries private and still allow my family to search across multiple galleries to find the shot they want?

Allen · January 9, 2005

onethumb wrote:

Keywords and dates browsing for private and/or passworded galleries doesn't work. Only publicly viewable galleries.
Don (from another thread)

Rats!:cry

I finally changed all my family galleries to private and added them
to a share group. I sure would like to be able to search for "grandpa" etc.
under the ShareGroup. Please, please, please.

Al

DavidTO wrote:

Will my family be able to search by keyword for private galleries, too?

If not, what's the best way to keep galleries private and still allow my family to search across multiple galleries to find the shot they want?

onethumb · January 9, 2005

lynnma wrote:

I'm happily going through all my shots adding key words.. it won't affect it that I'm seperating words by commas will it???

Spaces are the only seperator we officially recognize.

However, I think if you enter: london,paris,rome

we'll probably turn it into: london paris rome

for you.. But no promises.

If you want: New York

to be one word, though, it must be "New York". This won't cut it: New York,London, Paris.

That'll make: new york london paris

(New York becomes two keywords, new and york.)

Clear as mud?

Don

Aaron Wilson · January 10, 2005

thank you every one.. and yes it's clear as mud can be.. lol

Baldy · January 10, 2005

DavidTO wrote:

Will my family be able to search by keyword for private galleries, too?

If not, what's the best way to keep galleries private and still allow my family to search across multiple galleries to find the shot they want?

Errr... Ummm... I'm afraid you're ahead of at least me. We're still working on getting the kinks out of doing the keywords for public galleries...

Onethumb my have some thoughts but I know he's working pretty hard on issues that are coming up wrt stopwords, mapping relationships between words, user interface, etc.

Key Words

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