The art of criticism--Looking to improve

johno

johno here again, the new guy. OK, I shamelessly put my first picture on today of my son at the zoo... "Polar Expressed." I wanted to start well. Now I think I am ready for some critiques, good and bad, with the following pic. I took this in BW and added the sepia later... I really want to improve. Any direction for this new photographer?

Thanks.
johno~

wxwax

Johno, I prefer the top version, not sure the sepia adds anything to it, also the sepia's awfully strong. Check around the Hall of Fame and you'll find lots of suggestions for toning photographs and for doing duotones.

I think it's a wonderful silhouette of the tree. For my taste, the hill in the foreground isn't as interesting, is dark and occupies a fair bit of the frame. Perhaps a slight crop from the bottom up?

I've taken the liberty of cropping it and lightening the foreground a wee bit.

johno

wxwax wrote:

Johno, I prefer the top version, not sure the sepia adds anything to it, also the sepia's awfully strong. Check around the Hall of Fame and you'll find lots of suggestions for toning photographs and for doing duotones.

I think it's a wonderful silhouette of the tree. For my taste, the hill in the foreground isn't as interesting, is dark and occupies a fair bit of the frame. Perhaps a slight crop from the bottom up?

I've taken the liberty of cropping it and lightening the foreground a wee bit.

I see what you mean... I will try to crop out the bottom, however, I do like how you lightened it up. Thanks.
johno~

wxwax

Johno, what photo software do you have?

johno

wxwax wrote:

Johno, what photo software do you have?

I have PS CS... However, I am not to familiar with it yet.

wxwax

johno wrote:

I have PS CS... However, I am not to familiar with it yet.

Cool. Defintiely browse around the Hallf of Fame. You'll find lots and lots of easy-to-follow instructionals that are a great way to start to learn PS basics.

Like, for your sepia, try the Duotone thread. Or any of Andy's many generous tutorials.

Mongrel

Just a suggestion...
On the first shot, I'd actually try and darken the foreground even more. If possible without darkening the sky too much. I think it would really set off the branches nicely.

I like the compostion, it's good and sharp and you have great definition in the tree branches.

Nothing wrong with the second version either 'as is'...

Take care,

Tony

Nir

Johno,

I don't mean to be too harsh, and please don't let my remarks discourage you (I'm known for speaking nonsense - my wife can testify to that :lol ), but since you asked for it ...

I find the photo uninteresting. I think you do too - maybe that's why you tried sepia - too add a little something. I think that little something is not enough.

If you're in the mood for manipulation consider the following. Go all the way on this one. I added a full moon for balance and interest, cropped and inverted the sepia version. Although now it isn't really a photograph but rather a graphic image, I think it's more interesting and the negative effect adds drama and a special color tone.

What do you think? Does it stink?

If my 'manipulation' offends you or you feel it offends your original photo please let me know and I'll delete this post.

wxwax

I really like your crop, Nir. Not so keen on the moon, but that's mostly because it doesn't look like it belongs.

Nir

The moon a bit too big maybe? :lol I could 'climb up there' and shrink it

ginger_55

Actually, I like all versions, with the possible exception of the sepia, but then the sepia may just be a color sepia that I personally don't like.

I like the black and white, originally, and the "graphic" (why did it cease being a photograph and when) that Nir did.

ginger

johno

If my 'manipulation' offends you or you feel it offends your original photo please let me know and I'll delete this post.[/QUOTE]

Hey, if I ask for help, I want to hear or I wouldn't ask. I don't mind what you did with the pic. It is a nice crop... I never would have looked at it that way... You have helped give me a new point of view. Thanks!:D

I am not to sure about the moon. Don't worry though I'm fine with what you did. Isn't this what this forum is about?

I have been to some forums and been really bashed on for a simple novice question. I have enjoyed reading all post.

peace.
johno~

Nir

johno,


The moon isn't really important. I think my point is that the tree has potential but it just doesn't do it for me on it's own. Severe Photoshop is not absolutely necessary - it could be a reshoot in sunrise or sunset, a couple romantically holding hands next to the tree, or even an elephant ( could you maybe bring an elephant there?:lol) . Do you have access to the location again?

johno

Nir wrote:

johno,


The moon isn't really important. I think my point is that the tree has potential but it just doesn't do it for me on it's own. Severe Photoshop is not absolutely necessary - it could be a reshoot in sunrise or sunset, a couple romantically holding hands next to the tree, or even an elephant ( could you maybe bring an elephant there?:lol) . Do you have access to the location again?

It was a photo I took while on vacations in California... I live in Washington. It will have to wait until May.

However, I took a moment, a brief moment and came up with this photo. What do you think?

peace.
johno~

Nir

:roll Fantastic!!

Now if we hadn't seen the previous versions...

Mitchell

I like the tree with it's interesting looking branches. The problem I have with this shot is the hill in the foreground is just too distracting. I look at the pic and wonder how beautiful the tree would look without that hill in the way. Can you try again from a different vantage point?

mitch

johno

Mitchell wrote:

I like the tree with it's interesting looking branches. The problem I have with this shot is the hill in the foreground is just too distracting. I look at the pic and wonder how beautiful the tree would look without that hill in the way. Can you try again from a different vantage point?

mitch

The shot was taken while on vacation in CA... I live in WA. I understand about the hill... I was in my car when I took the photo. I may try again in May.

peace.
johno~

Harryb

What we have here,
John, is a picture that doesn't work. This is not unusual. I usually dump 75-80% of my pics from a shoot.

The problem that I see is the composition. 1/3 of the shot is dead space. There is no amount of photoshopping thats going to change that. The good thing here is that the shots that don't work are great because we can learn from them. I would go back to the location and reshoot the shoot from different perspectives and see if you can come up with something better.

PS is a great program and you can do marvelous things with it. PS can improve a good picture but it can't save a bad picture. I know because I've taken thousands of bad pictures and no amount of photoshopping has ever redeemed ineffectual composition.

Harry

ginger_55

Hilarious, the elephant........................... made my day!!!!

OK, maybe the photo doesn't work for anyone else, it works for me. I like hills that are 30% dead space: save the photo, it could be useful, you can write in that dead space.

What the heck, someone might think of something really way out and put an elephant in it. Never can tell!

Love it!!!! (If you were really desperate, you could bury a body, dead, in it.)
Sometimes you just need open spaces. IMO

ginger

pathfinder

Harryb wrote:

John, is a picture that doesn't work. This is not unusual. I usually dump 75-80% of my pics from a shoot.

The problem that I see is the composition. 1/3 of the shot is dead space. There is no amount of photoshopping thats going to change that. The good thing here is that the shots that don't work are great because we can learn from them. I would go back to the location and reshoot the shoot from different perspectives and see if you can come up with something better.

PS is a great program and you can do marvelous things with it. PS can improve a good picture but it can't save a bad picture. I know because I've taken thousands of bad pictures and no amount of photoshopping has ever redeemed ineffectual composition.

Harry

Thanks for the clarity Harry. I had not answered earlier because I was not sure how to put my ideas into words. The tree has potential I think, but the centrally placed tree with the large dull foreground does not seem to capture my interest. What you said. And I agree, I post less than 1 % of the images I shoot.

johno

ginger_55 wrote:

save the photo, it could be useful, you can write in that dead space.

Thanks ginger. Good idea... I can make a thank you card for friends.
peace.
johno~