Strobes vs. Continuos Lighting

toddquinn

Looking for any thoughts on using continous lighting instead of strobes for studio work. Any answers are welcome, but I'm really looking for anyone with practical experience. Any setups where one type of lighting was preferred over the other? I love the creative freedom of continous lighting and want to know if an investment in some would be worth it.

FWIW, I'm only using portable strobes right now. I plan on buying a few AlienBees. I love their size, portability and fast recycle times.
-tq

HiSPL

I will abstain from voting at this time because I have neither hot lights or strobes.

I do however have mucho experience with hot lights in a theatre/concert setup and if I have anything to say about them it's HOLY GEEZ THEY GET HOT! Please take this into account if you are using any kind of continuous lighting.

Point number 2 is the amount of power they consume. You will want at least 575 watt lamps if you are using the nicer source four or parnel instruments from ETC. They are the hotness right now because of color temp, focus ability, changable lenses and so forth. They're expensive though, so you might be tempted to go with some older altmans or kliegl lights. I would suggest the altmans, because it's a little known fact that, in German, Kliegl actually means "heavy with sharp edges".

You can get some nice big altman fresnels on ebay for not too much money and they can make beautiful light, but you'll be using 1000 or 2000 watt lamps depending on what size you get. Lamps blow frequently, and did I mention you can fry things with the housing? It's true.

I like hot lights for several reasons but I can't see myself using them in a studio environment. They are just too hot, and draw too much juice. You'll need a special electrical distribution service in your studio if you want more than a few lights, and you can't really use 16/3 extension cords either. Well, you could, but.....

Oh, BTW we caught a piano on fire the other day with one of our 6x12 leko's when we flew in the electric to ground focus some lights. This leko was about a foot away from our 9' steinway and just smokin!

imax

o not claim to be any type of professional when it comes to either but I do like playing with the hotlights. I picked up a 1000 watt fresnel off of e-bay a couple of months ago and plan on ordering another one tomorrow, a 250 watt 3 inch. I have always loved the way the old style b/w photographers used light and shadow in their photographs. Here are two I did today. (the only willing subjects today) everyone else ran and hid)

Kelly




Ozzy





Here is another thread which I was playing with lighting with my kids

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=51433

I've got alot to learn or should I say practice but I'm certainly enjoying the process. I have heard the pro's and con's of using both but I figured I'd start with these an then pogress to strobes later on pockets willing. I have to agree with the previous poster, they do get hot and they are bright. So have a few pair of sunglasses on hand for your clients.:D

Do a google search on fresnel and you will find plenty of examples. Especially look up the work of George Hurrell, one of the greats. Also here is link to a guy who from what I understand uses hot lights but they are somehow converted to strobes or vice versa.

http://stepheneastwood.com/portfolio/

Maybe he could shed some light on the subject as well.

Best of luck to you
Joe

toddquinn wrote:

Looking for any thoughts on using continous lighting instead of strobes for studio work. Any answers are welcome, but I'm really looking for anyone with practical experience. Any setups where one type of lighting was preferred over the other? I love the creative freedom of continous lighting and want to know if an investment in some would be worth it.

FWIW, I'm only using portable strobes right now. I plan on buying a few AlienBees. I love their size, portability and fast recycle times.
-tq

LuckyBob

Strobes

I've sort of done both routes - I went the cheap (really cheap) way and picked up 1200W worth of work lights about a year ago - they're basically impossible to use in an apartment studio for two reasons: the lack of ability to control the light, and the heat. I think I've only used them for photos three or four times since I bought them - honestly I got better overall results with my 550EX with an off-camera cord.

That being said, I finally dropped the cash to get a couple AlienBee AB800s - NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE! The $1200 or so I've spent on them so far is worth it even just for the heat difference. I will say that the modeling light can be of limited use for judging lighting since 150W max gets fairly dim once you start adding softboxes or color gels. As long as the studio (AKA my living room in my apartment ) is dark enough, everything's great though. I debated hotlights for a short while, but since I don't ever plan on doing video, I didn't want to deal with heat/bulb cost/etc that go along with them.

Scott_Quier

Strobes

Never even gave hot lights a serious thought. The whole idea of paying for the power to generate all that heat and then paying again to remove it (A/C) just didn't make sense.

Besides, for the type of shooting I'm doing with the lights (portriats, wedding portraits, etc), the hot lights just didn't make sense and I get all the creative functionality I could ever want from the strobes (3 x AB800, looking to get a fourth and some barn doors, etc).

EDIT: A note that you may already know - when you buy lights, it's a lot easier if all your lights are the same. If you get hot lights, get them all from the same manufacturer and of the same power. Same for the strobes.

claudermilk

Strobes

LuckyBob wrote:

I've sort of done both routes - I went the cheap (really cheap) way and picked up 1200W worth of work lights about a year ago - they're basically impossible to use in an apartment studio for two reasons: the lack of ability to control the light, and the heat. I think I've only used them for photos three or four times since I bought them - honestly I got better overall results with my 550EX with an off-camera cord.

That being said, I finally dropped the cash to get a couple AlienBee AB800s - NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE! The $1200 or so I've spent on them so far is worth it even just for the heat difference. I will say that the modeling light can be of limited use for judging lighting since 150W max gets fairly dim once you start adding softboxes or color gels. As long as the studio (AKA my living room in my apartment ) is dark enough, everything's great though. I debated hotlights for a short while, but since I don't ever plan on doing video, I didn't want to deal with heat/bulb cost/etc that go along with them.

I went a similar route. Started with the work light solution--found that in an apartment that keeps warm all on its own they are just unusable. So I scored a pair of Calumet strobes on long-term loan. Wow, now we can take some photos! The modeling lights are enough to get a basic idea & doing a little study, setting the power levels & leveraging the digital instant-gratification advantage makes it work well.

It seems to me the main advantage of hot lights is you see the lighting as it will be in the shot beforehand. For film that's great. But with modeling lights + digital that advantage pretty much goes away. Take a shot, review, reset, take another shot, repeat until you like it, then take the real shots & trash the test shots.

limbik

Continous Lighting

I recently picked up a set of 3 decent hot lights, stands, a boom, umbrellas, and a softbox, standard high wattage incandescent style. However, my plan is to convert those to high output fluorescents as soon as I find a bulb that has a reasonably decent CRI rating and color temperature. As time goes on, I'm sure more and more will become available but I have already come across a few that look promising. Granted, if I was doing all photo work I would probably go with strobes, but I do a few video remotes here and there so this was cost effective.

cmason

Strobes

Tried hotlights briefly because I could buy them at HomeDepot with no risk. Trouble was, I couldnt get too many willing models (ie. family members) who wanted to sit in my 'spanish inquisition room" as it was dubbed. It is just plain uncomfortable to be sitting under all that light (nevermind heat).

With strobes (speedlights in my case) it is much simpler and easier and I can get kids to sit still easier as well. YMMV

jdryan3

claudermilk wrote:

So I scored a pair of Calumet strobes on long-term loan. Wow, now we can take some photos! The modeling lights are enough to get a basic idea & doing a little study, setting the power levels & leveraging the digital instant-gratification advantage makes it work well.

I am also a Calumet customer and like a lot their stuff. I'm glad to see someone review their lights. Which ones are you using? Now if someone has used them AND the AB 400/800s for a comparison review...

claudermilk

Strobes

It's the Travelite 1500 kit. I really like them, very nice lights & almost *too* powerful. Really the only quibble is I am not a fan of the side-mount bracket, kind of a PITA to adjust. AFAIK these are simply rebadged Bowens Esprit Geminis--a good thing.

ziggy53

I use both!

claudermilk wrote:

It's the Travelite 1500 kit. I really like them, very nice lights & almost *too* powerful. Really the only quibble is I am not a fan of the side-mount bracket, kind of a PITA to adjust. AFAIK these are simply rebadged Bowens Esprit Geminis--a good thing.

Yes, they are Bowens units, and I also used Travelites in a previous job. Nice lights, very durable.

For my own use, I wound up getting Flashpoint II Model 1820s, and I'm mostly very happy with the decision. Sometimes the logic circuits don't work right for the modelling lights, but that could partly be my goofy circuits, and pretty dirty electrical signal. (Lots of harmonics.) It doesn't affect the primary operation of the flash at all.

For the original poster,

Using flash lighting also yields larger eye pupils, which most folks find more flattering in a portrait.

Hot lights can still be valuable for background lighting or still lifes, but with the cost of inexpensive slaved (and slave-able) electronic flash, the benefits of hot lights are greatly diminished. Cool continuous lights, fluorescent lights primarily, are great lights for BW photography, and the high-end units are used for some commercial color work.

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371642&postcount=19
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371788&postcount=33
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371799&postcount=35
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=381965&postcount=37

Daylight balanced compact fluorescent are OK now for objects that don't require tight color balance, but I don't think they are quite ready for most portraiture or other applications which require more subtle and accurate tonality. The reason is that inexpensive daylight balanced compact fluorescent phosphors are still not a complete continuous spectra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lights#Phosphors_and_the_spectrum_of_emitted_light

Compare this to a true daylight spectra:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Life_on_Earth

ziggy53

toddquinn

Great discussion so far...
Thanks for all of the great input (but feel free to continue the discussion)!

I completely forgot about the heat you can get from continuos lighting. Unless you're in a large enough studio (or outdoors) where you can really push the lights back, I would agree that they aren't practical for living subjects. I could see using them in special situations for still lifes or product shots - although probably only for special effect.

I suspected that with the modern strobes and attachments available, it would probably be money well spent to invest in strobes. Thanks for the overall confirmation.

Like I stated in my original post, I've been living with a portable hot-shoe flash. It's amazing what you can do with even that type of flash, an off-camera cord, some well placed reflectors and diffuser attachments

Thanks again for the advice.

claudermilk

Strobes

One option comes to mind I almost forgot about.

Westcott Spiderlights are "hot" lights that have several bulb options. You cna put halogens, fluorescent, or strobe slaves in them (two models, 3-bulb & 5-bulb). Not cheap, but quite effective.

The Monte Zucker seminar I caught, he was using them & had them practially on top of the subjects. He was using the fluorescent bulbs, and they didn't cook the people.

It's an interesting option. Now I'm debating AB's vs Interfit Stellars vs Spiderlights.

cmason

Strobes

You should also spend some time on Stobist , which is a great site that provides ton a ideas with using speedlites as studio lights. Be sure to read their primer at http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

For me, this is the direction I am going to go for now. At some point, I will learn the limits and that will guide me in the purchase of 'better' equipement. But I want to learn technique first, and I a delighted to find I don't have to spend a fortune to develop those skills. An extra flash and smallish umbrellas are cheap and amazingly portable vs a monolight.

pathfinder

Strobes

ziggy53 wrote:

For my own use, I wound up getting Flashpoint II Model 1820s, and I'm mostly very happy with the decision. Sometimes the logic circuits don't work right for the modelling lights, but that could partly be my goofy circuits, and pretty dirty electrical signal. (Lots of harmonics.) It doesn't affect the primary operation of the flash at all.

For the original poster,

Using flash lighting also yields larger eye pupils, which most folks find more flattering in a portrait.

Hot lights can still be valuable for background lighting or still lifes, but with the cost of inexpensive slaved (and slave-able) electronic flash, the benefits of hot lights are greatly diminished. Cool continuous lights, fluorescent lights primarily, are great lights for BW photography, and the high-end units are used for some commercial color work.

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371642&postcount=19
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371788&postcount=33
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371799&postcount=35
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=381965&postcount=37

Daylight balanced compact fluorescent are OK now for objects that don't require tight color balance, but I don't think they are quite ready for most portraiture or other applications which require more subtle and accurate tonality. The reason is that inexpensive daylight balanced compact fluorescent phosphors are still not a complete continuous spectra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lights#Phosphors_and_the_spectrum_of_emitted_light

Compare this to a true daylight spectra:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Life_on_Earth

ziggy53

I use a pair of FlashPoint II 620s as well Ziggy and I like them also. Adorama's Wedding Kit - Flashes, stands, umbrellas and softbox.

I have a softlite that I built with daylight style flourescent lamps, and I agree that they are pretty decent on non-people shots, but color balance can be interesting for portraits.