White Balance Question by Email

Andy

I am shooting a Nikon D80 with the Nikkor AF-S VR 70-200
2.8 lens (I just purchased it two weeks ago). I am having difficulties
getting the white balance correct in mainly indoor settings, ie., at
swimming pools and basketball gyms. I know that these are both difficult
settings. I hate to rely on my SB-800 and am hoping to be able to shoot
without it.

My question to you is do you have any experience with either a WhiBal G6 or
the Expo Disc? I am also going to be traveling again to Italy this year so
I want to use something that will also help me with outdoor lighting. I
really want to better understand lighting and "train" my eye to be able to
better judge my surroundings.

I also have the Tamron AF 18-200 3.5-6.3. Do you think either product will
do what I want or is there something else that you recommend?

OK folks, let's show the value of our community :thumb

W.W. Webster

Have you considered shooting RAW and dealing with the white balance in post-production? I wouldn't have it any other way.

Scott_Quier

I have both the ExpoDisc and the the WhiBal card. I have gotten the most consistant results with the card. As suggested by WWW, I also shoot RAW and take care of the WB in post. Using ACR, setting the WB is really quite simple and doesn't take much time at all. My results with the ExpoDisc have been a bit more hit or miss.

Fred Maurer

Ditto above advice. Always shoot RAW and adjust in post processing. Once you "tune in" the values for a venue, "bulk" process and it is done quickly. Indoor swimming will not look like summer swim, The water isn't "blue" under the lights and I find it easiest to try to get the skin tones balanced.

mrcoons

If you are shooting sports then shooting in RAW, rather than JPEG, will reduce your burst speed somewhat, at least it does on mine. Which could be a problem with basketball.

What I have done is shoot in JPEG and use my WhiBal card. Then I process my JPEG's using LightRoom (or Bibble) and reset the white balance from my WhiBal shot(s). It gives me the best of both worlds when I really need that extra speed. Normally I shoot everything in RAW but there are times when I can't, particularly with my Rebel XT as it is very slow with RAW's.

Works for me anyway.

claudermilk

I use the G5 version of the WhiBal card and have excellent results.

There's two ways to use it: just shoot the WB shot and use the eyedropper in post to balance all the shots. The advantage here is you can shoot that frame at any time during the event, and shoot a new frame when lighting changes. The disadvantage is you still have to deal with balancing in PP. The second way is to start the event shooiting the WB shot, then setting your camera's Custom WB to that frame. Now all your shots under that lighting are correct ot begin with--no PP balancing necessary. For the first method, shooting RAW helps a lot, the second it really doesn't matter as much.

So, Andy, how'd we do?

wxwax

Search for whibal on dgrin.

http://www.dgrin.com/search.php?searchid=304230

wxwax

Search for expodisc on dgrin.

http://www.dgrin.com/search.php?searchid=304232

mrcoons

This has reminded me of something that I have puzzled over for sometime. I have been using my WhiBal for several years but I have never been able to figure out how to use it in the following setting:

I am sitting/standing in the middle of a dark auditorium shooting subjects on a well lit stage. Obviously I can't ask the subject to hold it up for me and if I take a picture of the Whibal where I am it will be dark?

Is there a solution here I am missing? Or would this be a place for the ExpoDisk?

pathfinder

The WhiBalance card or a grey card MUST be illuminated by the same light that the subject is illuminated by, so NO, you can't sit in the audience and hold WhiBalance card in your hand and shoot it and expect to use this shot to set your White Balance for the flood lit stage performers.

Even using an Expo disc is not ideal, because the instructions say to put the Expo disc on the camera and then POINT THE Camera at the light source that is illuminating the scene and shoot the frame to be used for setting white balance. Hard to do this sitting in the audience. Maybe you could hide backstage.:D

On the other hand, much stage lighting is Tungsten Lighting I believe.

The other fine solution is to shoot in RAW using AWB ( or whatever as we will change in in post processing) and be sure that you include in your first few frames a shot that includes real, neutral, blacks, real, neutral whites, and (if you can find it you're golden ) real neutral medium grays.

If you can find real neutral grays, or darker whites that are not blown in one channel, you can then use the eyedropper in Adobe's Raw converter to do the white balance for you. Just click with the eyedropped on the known gray and the white balance should be set. Eazy Peasy!

It just so happens I was in this predicament last weekend sitting in the audience with too short a focal length and too slow a lens, but anyway.... Here is how it is done. It is important that the object that is gray is in the same lighting as the rest of the image - it cannot be in the shade for something in the spotlight...

wxwax

The only solution I've ever come up with for that problem, is to do a test shot on the lit stage before the performance starts. Of course, that's usually not possible. But it's the only solution that I can think of.

mrcoons

pathfinder wrote:

Maybe you could hide backstage.:D

On the other hand, much stage lighting is Tungsten Lighting I believe.

The other fine solution is to shoot in RAW using AWB ( or whatever as we will change in in post processing) and be sure that you include in your first few frames a shot that includes real, neutral, blacks, real, neutral whites, and (if you can find it you're golden ) real neutral medium grays.

If you can find real neutral grays, or darker whites that are not blown in one channel, you can then use the eyedropper in Adobe's Raw converter to do the white balance for you. Just click with the eyedropped on the known gray and the white balance should be set. Eazy Peasy!

I might be able to sneak backstage, I'll try!:D

As you suggested what I normally do is shoot RAW using AWB. There is usually more than on musician on stage that has something white on and I correct the WB from there.

I had been reading all the previously linked posts on this subject and it led me to another board that was extolling the virtues of the WhiBal and said that you could use it on any indoor shot and I'm thinking "No you can't".
So I thought I'd ask and see if I was wrong. Thanks!

pathfinder

You CAN use it on any indoor shot, but UNLESS the light is the same on the card as on the stage, it is an effort in futility as you are quite aware.

Marketers like simple statements....... for simple minds??:D

Or just shoot B&W which was the solution used by lots of folks prior to digitals availability.

mrcoons

Marketers like simple statements....... for simple minds??

Same as the people I work for!

Update 1/26/07:

Michael Tapes (inventor of the WhiBal) finally responded to this same question on his BB and gave pretty much the same answer as Pathfinder. Only difference was that his claim that ExpoDisk would not help either was a little more heated! But he did respond and that was all I really wanted. Just thought I'd pass that along.

claudermilk

Can't really add to the limitation of using a WhiBal in that situation. My solution is to set the camera to Kelvin WB at 3200K (about the middle of Tungsten ranges); it gives me pretty good results. The thing with stage lighting is often it is gelled to something other than white, so that nice neutral item on stage (if you are so lucky as to find something) really shouldn't be neutral any more, but toned by the light. This is one of the many things that makes stage shooting so challenging.

pathfinder

thumb

mrcoons

claudermilk wrote:

Can't really add to the limitation of using a WhiBal in that situation. My solution is to set the camera to Kelvin WB at 3200K (about the middle of Tungsten ranges); it gives me pretty good results. The thing with stage lighting is often it is gelled to something other than white, so that nice neutral item on stage (if you are so lucky as to find something) really shouldn't be neutral any more, but toned by the light. This is one of the many things that makes stage shooting so challenging.

I guess if it was easy I wouldn't enjoy doing it!

claudermilk

waluongo

expo disk
Just a comment, the price of the expo disk is far more than what it is worth. It is nothing more than a piece of white plastic, how can it cost as much as a Canon 50 mm f 1.8 lens. As one person said a white card works better, better still use raw if you can.