Tough light

ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
edited January 29, 2007 in Wildlife
Its starting to get cloudy and I was on the wrong side of the light:

125754920-L.jpg

Stumbled on this guy. Spooked him immediately.

Found a heron:

125754950-L.jpg

We settled in to watch each other. Got off a few good shots:

125754985-L.jpg

125755015-L.jpg

Then, without warning, he simply squacked and flew away:

125755048-L.jpg

I was sitting down and we had decided to just keep our distance. Something random spooked him. Didnt see any other candidates, so back home.

Overall a nice 15 minute outing!

Z
It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.

Comments

  • Van IsleVan Isle Registered Users Posts: 384 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Nice shots, but IMO a little too much noise? Perhaps it was required for the light and lens? waaaaay better than my attempts at herons last night! Laughing.gif! couldn't get remotely close, couldn't focus in flight, I suck! Again, good pics.

    VI
    dgrin.com - making my best shots even better since 2006.
  • Van IsleVan Isle Registered Users Posts: 384 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    PS really, really good job on the exposure on #1. Excellent.

    VI
    dgrin.com - making my best shots even better since 2006.
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Van Isle wrote:
    Nice shots, but IMO a little too much noise? Perhaps it was required for the light and lens? waaaaay better than my attempts at herons last night! Laughing.gif! couldn't get remotely close, couldn't focus in flight, I suck! Again, good pics.

    VI

    ISO800 and some post processing. Probably a little noisy....
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Good shots, very sharp. The noise is a problem, what NR software are you using?
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Harryb wrote:
    Good shots, very sharp. The noise is a porblem, what NR software are you using?

    None! What would you suggest?
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    I always feel a little disadvantaged here. I saw some photo's of Pathfinder with his 10,000mm lens, and I know Harryb has a 25,000mm f1.2 lens.

    All I have is a crappy (?) 200mm f4L. I rely on stealth, stillness and persistance to get my shots. I am proud of them, but I dont know if I can ever acheive the kinds of shots I see here with this setup.

    Z
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Zanotti wrote:
    None! What would you suggest?
    Noise Ninja http://www.picturecode.com/
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Zanotti wrote:
    I always feel a little disadvantaged here. I saw some photo's of Pathfinder with his 10,000mm lens, and I know Harryb has a 25,000mm f1.2 lens.

    All I have is a crappy (?) 200mm f4L. I rely on stealth, stillness and persistance to get my shots. I am proud of them, but I dont know if I can ever acheive the kinds of shots I see here with this setup.

    Z

    Hey Z,

    The shots you have been posting are fine. There will always be somebody with a longer lens or bigger camera. PF and I worked for more than 30 years before we could afford our current toys.

    The key here is to enjoy what you have now and learn how to use it to its maximum.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • Osprey WhispererOsprey Whisperer Registered Users Posts: 3,803 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Zanotti wrote:
    I always feel a little disadvantaged here. I saw some photo's of Pathfinder with his 10,000mm lens, and I know Harryb has a 25,000mm f1.2 lens.

    All I have is a crappy (?) 200mm f4L. I rely on stealth, stillness and persistance to get my shots. I am proud of them, but I dont know if I can ever acheive the kinds of shots I see here with this setup.

    Z

    Nice series of pics. I know a guy who has shot thousands of birds/wildlife shots with just a 200mm lens and one eye closed. eek7.gifrolleyes1.gif :ivar wings.gif:Ddeal.gif It's nice to have a bazooka lens...but if you can get to Florida...no need for one. I've been recently suing a borrowed 400mm lens this wekk..and honestly...I find myself...often times removing it and putting my 200mm back on. Sometimes the 400mm is just TOO MUCH GLASS. ne_nau.gif

    You just have to learn to whisper sweet nothings in the birds ears...or try fish. A camo blind also comes in handy. Don't sell yourself short...with a short lens. Just have to be creative. Shoot what you can...and make them count.
    Mike McCarthy

    "Osprey Whisperer"

    OspreyWhisperer.com
  • bfjrbfjr Registered Users Posts: 10,980 Major grins
    edited January 27, 2007
    Z I think these are your best to date

    The Blue Heron shots are crisp and sharp lighting is not to harsh thumb.gif

    get you some Noise Ninja (like Harry sugested) and you'll be Golden :D
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    Now, I am too close! Cut off the feet!!

    125950880-L.jpg
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    Zanotti wrote:
    Now, I am too close! Cut off the feet!!

    125950880-L.jpg


    When that happens go for a tighter crop. To have the legs like that w/o feet doesn't work well.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • Awais YaqubAwais Yaqub Registered Users Posts: 10,572 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    These are cool i don't have problems with them mwink.gif
    Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal

    My Gallery
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    Thanks Awais. I always appreciate your supportiveness!
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • 2whlrcr2whlrcr Registered Users Posts: 306 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    I'm certainly a nobody, but I don't find the noise objectionable. I think it adds a quality to the heron in flight photo. Reminds me of a high ISO film.
  • JeffroJeffro Registered Users Posts: 1,941 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    Noise didn't bother me. Not every shot can be done at ISO 100, nor should they be. Remember grain? Nobody used to complain about that like they do noise now. Much ado about nothing in my opinion.

    Nice work! :D
    Always lurking, sometimes participating. :D
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 28, 2007
    Jeffro wrote:
    Noise didn't bother me. Not every shot can be done at ISO 100, nor should they be. Remember grain? Nobody used to complain about that like they do noise now. Much ado about nothing in my opinion.

    Nice work! :D

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that noise is bad. When one shot with high ISO film you knew that the price of the high speed would be grain but it was needed to get a shot. There are times when some grain can give an image a feel that is positive but a wildlife shot of a little blue heron is not one of those times.

    When I read a camera review in Pophoto or at DPR or at all the other review sites image noise is seen as a negative factor on a camera's rating. When I submit shots to my stock photo company they will turn down a submission if it has noise when viewed at 100%. Finally there must be a reason why all those folks selling NR software are making a profit.

    No one has said that Z's shots were bad, quite the opposite they are fine and would be better with less noise. When viewing the shot the noise distracts the viewers attention away from the subject. Not a positive.

    Here's a quick work-up of one of of Z's shot with the background noise lessened
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 29, 2007
    You know, I have looked at this photo and the noisy one about a hundred times. I appreciate the comments and help here.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that the origional isn't noisy, its just caused by sloppy post processing. Let me explain.

    I took these shots, ran them through IE2, then opened in photoshop to do extra sharpening. I have a bad habit of shooting in JPEG, and processing into JPEG, so I have no work flow habit of layers in post.

    My presumption is that I applied extra USM over the entire image, causing the program to attempt to "sharpen" the nicely blurred bokeh. This sharpening of bokeh, caused the apppearance of noise in the background. If I had used a layer mask, and selectively sharpened the bird only, the background would have remained creamy bokeh and looked better.

    Harryb's Noise Ninja-ed photo shows good sharpness of the bird, and creamier background - probably similar to the origional.

    I am at work without access to the origional, but I will look at it later and see.

    Z
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 29, 2007
    Zanotti wrote:
    You know, I have looked at this photo and the noisy one about a hundred times. I appreciate the comments and help here.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that the origional isn't noisy, its just caused by sloppy post processing. Let me explain.

    I took these shots, ran them through IE2, then opened in photoshop to do extra sharpening. I have a bad habit of shooting in JPEG, and processing into JPEG, so I have no work flow habit of layers in post.

    My presumption is that I applied extra USM over the entire image, causing the program to attempt to "sharpen" the nicely blurred bokeh. This sharpening of bokeh, caused the apppearance of noise in the background. If I had used a layer mask, and selectively sharpened the bird only, the background would have remained creamy bokeh and looked better.

    Harryb's Noise Ninja-ed photo shows good sharpness of the bird, and creamier background - probably similar to the origional.

    I am at work without access to the origional, but I will look at it later and see.

    Z

    USM will definitely bring out noise especially at higher ISOs. FYI when I applied NR to your shot I did it on a dup layer. I then made the layer a mask and "painted" out the heron so the NR was only applied to the background and not the subject. That way you don't lose any of the sharpness in the subject. You can see that you did an extremely fine job with the focus on the shot. thumb.gif
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited January 29, 2007
    Zanotti,

    One of the things I have learned over the last few years, is that no matter how excited I am by what I am seeing, if the light is of a poor quality, or the background is less than optimal, it is very challenging to come home with a great image. I have done this so many times, that it is slowly sinking into my head, LOOK at the light LUKE!! LOOK at the Background! Ok, once they are acceptable, ONLY then can I think about triggering the shutter.

    The frustrating thing is that this means I see a lot of herons locally here in Indiana, and simply walk away, or worse, shoot, and then when I get home discard the images. Harry said he is turning down eagle shots for the same reason. That is what leads to better work in the long run, discipline at the time of shooting.

    The herons I see here in Indiana are usually standing in a muddy mess, against a riverbank that is a thicket of branches and weeds that are really not that photogenic. And the light is shadows, soft, or flat, or all three. No matter how I vary the aperture, the shutter speed, the ISO, the focal length, the result is still a less than fascinating image. But the thrill of being able to capture a GBH still propels me to try, even tho I have learned that in this particular circumstance it is a waste of photons.

    I like you last image of the bird in flight. But your backgrounds limit the appeal, to me at least, of your GBH shots. I understand the excitement of capturing a GBH on film, I share it. But patience to capture one against a nice sky devoid of clutter, in nice light will probably lead to a more satisfactory shot.

    As for long glass, it wasn't thirty years, Harry, for me, it was forty.:D

    Mike is right that long glass is not the whole secret, but it does help with wary wildlife. I do have shots of some birds with a 200mm lens also, Mike. Just not as many. But when they do allow shorter glass, the images generally of much higer quality. I vastly prefer to use short glass if possible. Blinds can help some here; as well, as feeding the wary creatures if that is allowed and ethical.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited January 29, 2007
    Oh yeah, thus is the beauty of "hunting" within the comfines of a Florida track home project. Once they go into the air - the background is for crap.

    I have some really spectacular photos of beautiful birds in a bright deep blue pool - that when you backed up it was just some crappy spillway that just happened to be at the right angle!

    At this point, I am experimenting with focus, shutter speed, light balance and composition. The way for me to do this is to hunt the neighborhood ponds - at the sacrifice of backgrounds. Hell, I have some really good ones with an apartment just behind.

    But the upside is that I can go out for an hour, come back home and post and learn. When I have improved enough, I will then go further afield. (Maybe MI IV!)

    Funny enough on Sunday after taking these good shots the day before, I had a great set of a white bird catching a crawfish, picking him up, flipping him and eating him. Really close, almost full frame of the head alone. Not one was anywhere near infocus, all where blown highlights and the flip was missed - before and after, but not during. I was so mad, I just deleted the card. Now I wish I had kept them so I could figure out why.

    This can be such a humbling hobby........

    Z

    OK, selective sharpening. Is the noise reduced?

    126325135-M.jpg
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited January 29, 2007
    Zanotti wrote:
    OK, selective sharpening. Is the noise reduced?

    126325135-M.jpg

    nod.gifthumb.gif
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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