I'm curious...

Frog Lady

about what you all think of this treatment. I like it b/c it helps minimize messy backgrounds that can't always be avoided in crowded soccer complexes and I like how it brings the player into stronger focus.

So, is this something I should continue with?



(btw, is my 10 yr old)

C.

mlboyd

Maybe it's just this particular shot, with the car immediately behind the player, but my first impression was that the car is menacing and the player is trying to get away. I think that seeing the bright colors drew my eyes to look around to see what the player was standing out against, and I had an immediate reaction upon seeing the car there. Like I said, it may just be this particular shot (or it may just be me!), but the color here actually drew me more toward the background than away from it. Maybe post some different examples? And I'm sure there are a lot of other folks here who have something to say and some ways to help with distracting backgrounds at busy sports complexes.

Frog Lady

tx for the comment mlboyd, interesting reaction... I guess I've been looking at this one long enough and thought that the b/w minimized the effect of the car in the background.

here are a couple more. One, unfortunately, is from my older son's team this past fall w/ a silver jersey, so I don't think the effect works as good there.




C.

mlboyd

Those look good to me. They still give a definite separation between the subject and the rest of the photo, which I think works better with these other two shots.

In the first, I like the spectators in the background and feel like I'm watching with them as the player is so intent on the ball. In the second, your son really seems to "pop" away from the other players and there's a real dynamic feel to it.

I'm interested to see what other feedback you get. These are really fun shots to look at!


- Misty

Seamus

Hi Coleen,

This is a link to a thread on another site. The man answering the questions is a professional photographer who shoots soccer in England and has loads of good advice. I have it bookmarked and flick through it from time to time.

If you would like my (very humble) opinion I would say that, if possible, you should move so that you get a cleaner background. I checked your profile and saw that you have a 100-400L. I would think that you would be able to shoot from the half way line and cover both ends of the pitch at 400mm.

The second pic you posted has the cleanest background. You could try to limit your pics to that type of background.

An alternative is the oob'ing thread. You could make some great pics of your sons and clean up/eliminate the backgrounds at the same time.

I hope this advice is helpful.

pahl

They look cool and I like this one the best.

xris

Frog Lady wrote:

about what you all think of this treatment. I like it b/c it helps minimize messy backgrounds that can't always be avoided in crowded soccer complexes and I like how it brings the player into stronger focus.

So, is this something I should continue with?
C.

You didn't say your intentions for the photos. It is, however, a very nice effect. If it's your intention to commercialize the idea, (ie. sell shots to parents of the players) I'd say you're onto something very distinctive. Should be very popular. Is it a time-consuming thing to do?

Frog Lady

Seamus wrote:

Hi Colleen,

This is a link to a thread on another site. The man answering the questions is a professional photographer who shoots soccer in England and has loads of good advice. I have it bookmarked and flick through it from time to time.

If you would like my (very humble) opinion I would say that, if possible, you should move so that you get a cleaner background. I checked your profile and saw that you have a 100-400L. I would think that you would be able to shoot from the half way line and cover both ends of the pitch at 400mm.

The second pic you posted has the cleanest background. You could try to limit your pics to that type of background.

An alternative is the oob'ing thread. You could make some great pics of your sons and clean up/eliminate the backgrounds at the same time.

I hope this advice is helpful.

Hi Seamus,

thanks for your feedback and suggestions. I also follow the potn sports threads and agree that there are some 1st rate sports shooters over there. I agree with the issues of the background, but most of the complexes my boys play in have fields side to side to side. And it's d*mn near impossible to get players any where near side lines w/o out some background issues. I often find that if I shoot down near the goal line I can often get the action coming towards me and get more field than side line, so that's one way I try to minimize it.

I've also tried some OOB-llike effects as well. Here are a couple:





I personally think the 2nd of the two does a better job at removing the busy bkgd, but I did these a while ago before I started getting better a PS.

C.

Frog Lady

xris wrote:

You didn't say your intentions for the photos. It is, however, a very nice effect. If it's your intention to commercialize the idea, (ie. sell shots to parents of the players) I'd say you're onto something very distinctive. Should be very popular. Is it a time-consuming thing to do?

tx xris,

I'd like to be able to sell the shots, hence one of the reasons I'm asking for feedback here. It actually isn't all that difficult to do, once you've mastered the extraction technique. I copied the bkgd layer, extracted the player of interest and then did a b/w conversion on the bkgd. I also applied a vignette type filter. You define an area inside your photo, feather it for the softer look. I think I also added some graininess to the b/w portion as well.

cheers,

C.

Seamus

Frog Lady wrote:

Hi Seamus,

thanks for your feedback and suggestions. I also follow the potn sports threads and agree that there are some 1st rate sports shooters over there. I agree with the issues of the background, but most of the complexes my boys play in have fields side to side to side. And it's d*mn near impossible to get players any where near side lines w/o out some background issues. I often find that if I shoot down near the goal line I can often get the action coming towards me and get more field than side line, so that's one way I try to minimize it.

I've also tried some OOB-llike effects as well. Here are a couple:





I personally think the 2nd of the two does a better job at removing the busy bkgd, but I did these a while ago before I started getting better a PS.

C.

Hi Coleen,

I must preface my comments by saying that I have shot one (1) soccer game and I was rubbish .

The second oob is excellent. I looked through your galleries and you have some superb photos:



and



are two that I picked at random. Gavin (Gmen) would say that they are excellent, sharp, good exposure and clean backgrounds.

You have some great photos in your galleries.

Frog Lady

Seamus wrote:

Hi Coleen,

I must preface my comments by saying that I have shot one (1) soccer game and I was rubbish .

The second oob is excellent. I looked through your galleries and you have some superb photos:

are two that I picked at random. Gavin (Gmen) would say that they are excellent, sharp, good exposure and clean backgrounds.

You have some great photos in your galleries.

thanks Seamus.

oldtime

This is an interesting concept and I like the look , But the backgrounds are still distracting in black and white!!! shoot with a great DOF or from a spot that gives better backgrounds

Frog Lady

oldtime wrote:

This is an interesting concept and I like the look , But the backgrounds are still distracting in black and white!!! shoot with a great DOF or from a spot that gives better backgrounds

thanks for your comments oldtime... about the bkgd - I know, I know. But, until I can afford a good f/2.8 lens and/or the population of soccer playing kids per area goes down (and the complexes aren't so crowded), I'm stuck. I do keep bkgd in mind and try to minimize it when I can, but there are times when no matter what I do, I'm s.o.l. I get jealous every time I go and see my niece and nephew play in MD in wide open, luscious green fields w/ only one pitch

so, sounds like in general, you all believe the treatment doesn't minimize bkgd elements, but, is otherwise a nice overall effect to enhance an otherwise good photo.

cheers,

C.

xris

Frog Lady wrote:

thanks for your comments oldtime... about the bkgd - I know, I know. But, until I can afford a good f/2.8 lens and/or the population of soccer playing kids per area goes down (and the complexes aren't so crowded), I'm stuck. I do keep bkgd in mind and try to minimize it when I can, but there are times when no matter what I do, I'm s.o.l. I get jealous every time I go and see my niece and nephew play in MD in wide open, luscious green fields w/ only one pitch

so, sounds like in general, you all believe the treatment doesn't minimize bkgd elements, but, is otherwise a nice overall effect to enhance an otherwise good photo.

cheers,

C.

The thing to keep in mind is that the parents will be buying memories and those backgrounds help provide that. That's one reason I love the concept. The backgrounds serve to place the photo's in contaxt with real life situtaions while the technique draws them MORE into the background. As an art piece, you want to minimise the background -- i agree. But as a memorial piece, it's a killer idea -- backgrouns and all!

RandySmugMug

good stuff Colleen
I wish i had the time & patience

wmstumme

It's an interesting look--but the only one I really liked was the one where the "background" was another kid from the other team. In the other two, it seemed like the color player had been superimposed over a seperate BW background--and that because of the dramatic difference, I was supposed to pay more (not less) attention to the background. (That car really jumps out...looks pretty scary.)

I really think the best solution is in the future try to blur the background--and I think another poster had it correct--with a 100-400mm lense you should probably be able to get a short enough DOF to make that happen.

I did like the red and the white border solutions. They seemed to really do the trick you are looking for. I don't know how long they take to do in PS, but they are nice, and give it a touch parents can't easily get at the "do it yourself" print booth.

Regards

Will

risource

I love this discussion

Frog Lady wrote:

about what you all think of this treatment. I like it b/c it helps minimize messy backgrounds that can't always be avoided in crowded soccer complexes and I like how it brings the player into stronger focus.

So, is this something I should continue with?

I like this treatment very much, and have been analyzing it myself. I actually find the b&w to be an attention attractor, not detractor. I see it in your images as well, where the defending player (over the shoulder) draws my eye away from the colored player, and evokes an emotion of danger.

So when I have a hockey player front and center, sharply focused with good expression, and he's surrounded by "attackers" or surrounded by falling away (defeated) opponents, I look to this technique. I find it highlights the achieving player, and gains emotion from the surrounding b&w.

As a means of demoting the background, I don't think it works unless you also soften that background (or even blur). Funny thing, though, is that when I have done that, it seems to work best when the blurred image suggests the same attacking activity as I previously described. In one case a disninterested background player, once blurred, became (in my mind) menacing because of his posture and position. The lack of face detail prevented me from knowing otherwise, and allowed my belief system to drive my interpretation of the image.

Good technique, yes, but IMHO not to remove attention from a distracting background.

risource

Funny that - wmstumme said basically the same thing as I was writing my reply (same time different time zone). I should have waited a minute and I could have said "yea, what he said" ;-)

mercphoto

I like the effect as well. I'm also very interested in how you mastered the extraction technique so that it doesn't take you too much time to do. Could you start a thread on this? Mayb in the Techniques forum? Thanks.

I'll also second what was said about parents buying these for memories. And part of that memory is not just the child but also where that child was. This means you can only blur out a background so much before you lose the frame of reference to where you were. I learned this from shooting motocross, where tightly cropped photos that are impressive to us photographers rarely sold, but environmental shots did.

Think of this as environmental portrait photography. The B&W treatment of the background did a great job of keeping the surroundings w/o distracting your attention from the child.

Alternately, you can always have Photoshop blur that B&W background as well.