Which second lens and which bag?

chopsky

Hey guys

Im going to be purchasing a 350D in a couple weeks time (during my 1 week trip in NYC). This will be my first venture into the world of SLR (bar the film SLR I've been using for the last week - its lenses arent great at all).
I'm set on getting the Canon 10-22mm as I love taking scenic/landscape shots (especially since I live in a city that lends itself to it).

Im really unsure what to get as second lens. Im looking for something that I can use more as a 'walk-around' lens.
A good friend of mine (and someone i believe to be a respectable photographer) has adviced me to get the 50mm 1.8. Probably a steal at $70 as well. Im looking at the 85 1.8 as well. I'm aware there's a relatively significant price difference, but I'm willing to spend a bit more cash, if it means buying more of an investment, rather than a lens I'll outgrow sooner. Is the 85 too narrow an angle for every day use? If I'm taking portraits, will I get significant bokeh with the 50?
I obviously want to be 100% happy with whatever I buy and not have to replace the lens in 6 months to a year.

Secondly, Im looking into buying a backpack for my camera. Assuming I successfully purchase my cam when I get there, Im going to be walking around New York hopefully every day with it, so I figured a backpack would be the best (most comfortable) solution for this. Do guys find that the backpacks make the camera gear extremely inaccessible when needing to change lenses etc.? Should I rather look into a slingshot?

Thanks!

Art Scott

chopsky wrote:

Hey guys

Im going to be purchasing a 350D in a couple weeks time (during my 1 week trip in NYC). This will be my first venture into the world of SLR (bar the film SLR I've been using for the last week - its lenses arent great at all).
I'm set on getting the Canon 10-22mm as I love taking scenic/landscape shots (especially since I live in a city that lends itself to it).

Im really unsure what to get as second lens. Im looking for something that I can use more as a 'walk-around' lens.
A good friend of mine (and someone i believe to be a respectable photographer) has adviced me to get the 50mm 1.8. Probably a steal at $70 as well. Im looking at the 85 1.8 as well. I'm aware there's a relatively significant price difference, but I'm willing to spend a bit more cash, if it means buying more of an investment, rather than a lens I'll outgrow sooner. Is the 85 too narrow an angle for every day use? If I'm taking portraits, will I get significant bokeh with the 50?
I obviously want to be 100% happy with whatever I buy and not have to replace the lens in 6 months to a year.

Secondly, Im looking into buying a backpack for my camera. Assuming I successfully purchase my cam when I get there, Im going to be walking around New York hopefully every day with it, so I figured a backpack would be the best (most comfortable) solution for this. Do guys find that the backpacks make the camera gear extremely inaccessible when needing to change lenses etc.? Should I rather look into a slingshot?

Thanks!

My choice for a 2nd lens would be someting like a 24-70 f2.8....as for either backpack or slingshot....try to find a store with the slingshot 300aw...just out from LowePro and is supposed to retail for around 125 (according to mag. ad....).....I used my backpack in Europe and ecided I would rather assemble myself a waist belt system or sometimthing like a slingshot...it was too much trouble to keep taking the pack off to get to equipment...now my LowePeo Super Trekker is being used like a Pelican Case...Just for storage.

rosselliot

after a lof of research, I decided on the Domke f-802. it's a great camera bag and it's well made and it doesn't scream - "hey, big boy, I'm a camera bag, I'll bet you how much contents are worth...STEAL ME!" here's a review:

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=67

I also really enjoy my new 24-105, but it's really expensive if you're just getting into the DSLR world. but if you get it, you won't regret it!

as you can see I decided on the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 as my walk around lens. the price is definitely right and it's a great focal length for the walk around.

are you sure you wouldn't consider getting the Sigma? it'll save you some money that you could put towards other things, like a battery grip or different accessories like filters.

well, good luck!

- RE

chopsky

Art Scott wrote:

My choice for a 2nd lens would be someting like a 24-70 f2.8....as for either backpack or slingshot....try to find a store with the lingshot 300aw...jusat out from LowePro and is supposed to retail for around 125 (according to mag. ad....).....I used my backpack in Europe and ecided I would rather assemble myself a waist belt system or sometimthing like a slingshot...it was too much trouble to keep taking the pack off to get to equipment...now my LowePeo Super Trekker is being used like a Pelican Case...Just for storage.

Art, that lens looks to be around $1100, which is way of my budget for a second lens.
As for the 300AW, that looks to be a great choice. Will look into it further.

rosselliot wrote:

after a lof of research, I decided on the Domke f-802. it's a great camera bag and it's well made and it doesn't scream - "hey, big boy, I'm a camera bag, I'll bet you how much contents are worth...STEAL ME!" here's a review:

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=67

I also really enjoy my new 24-105, but it's really expensive if you're just getting into the DSLR world. but if you get it, you won't regret it!

as you can see I decided on the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 as my walk around lens. the price is definitely right and it's a great focal length for the walk around.

are you sure you wouldn't consider getting the Sigma? it'll save you some money that you could put towards other things, like a battery grip or different accessories like filters.

Ross, I've never been mad about bags like that as they seem to sit around the ass area and dont sit as well as a backpack, especially for walking around all day with.

As for the Tamron, I was looking at something with a wider aperture for portraits (hence the 50 1.8).

I was considering the Sigma, but after reading head-to-head reviews, I decided the Canon was the better option.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR THE PROMPT RESPONSES.

Art Scott

Found this one ebay...I have purchased from this retailer and have had no problems...and may be ordering this soon:

LowePro Slingshot 300 AW

rosselliot

I understand. I didn't know you were looking more for a backpack.

also, I think you'll find that if you want a good walk-around lens you'll want a zoom. the primes will be great for portraits, but you might regret having those as your only "walk-around" lenses. just my thoughts.

good luck with your purchases!

- RE

Art Scott

chopsky wrote:

Art, that lens looks to be around $1100, which is way of my budget for a second lens.
As for the 300AW, that looks to be a great choice. Will look into it further.



Ross, I've never been mad about bags like that as they seem to sit around the ass area and dont sit as well as a backpack, especially for walking around all day with.

As for the Tamron, I was looking at something with a wider aperture for portraits (hence the 50 1.8).

I was considering the Sigma, but after reading head-to-head reviews, I decided the Canon was the better option.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR THE PROMPT RESPONSES.

Check out Sigma and Tamron lines of lenses....also look for USED....great deals can usually be found and would save you tons....
Siince discussing the 300aw...I just bought it at Sell-N-Send on Ebay...less than $97 with insurance...should arrive friday or monday since it is coming from Co.

wxwax

The Mini Trekker or Micro Trekker are good little backpacks, probably an excellent fit for your needs.

However... I do think a backpack is a little cumbersome for city shooting. Your body and lenses are not big or heavy, so a shoulder bag won't hurt your shoulder or unbalance you. I'd recommend one over a backpack, simply because it's so much easier to change lenses, pull out your camera, etc.

There are tons of shoulder bags out there. I have a couple of Lowepros, and am very happy with them. You might want to consider one of their "Stealth Reporter" bags, they're very nice.

I seem to have recommended all Lowepro. I have many brands, they're the equal of any.

As for lens, the 10-22 rocks. An excellent choice. Either the 50 1.8 or the 85 1.8 is also an excellent choice. The 85 is not too "narrow." It will give you better bokeh than the 50.

Art Scott

24-70 f2.8 under $500
Chopsky....

I went looking on Ebay..found this approx 275 +s/h
Sigma 24-70 on ebay

24-70 at BH.....429 +S/H of course you can pick this up also

24 - 60 f2.8 at BH $399 +s/h......again you'll be able to just pick this up also...

I have extremely happy with my 24-70 2.8 siggy...I have always had great luck with my Sigma Lenses over all the years I have used them (around 25 yrs).

chopsky

wxwax wrote:

However... I do think a backpack is a little cumbersome for city shooting. Your body and lenses are not big or heavy, so a shoulder bag won't hurt your shoulder or unbalance you. I'd recommend one over a backpack, simply because it's so much easier to change lenses, pull out your camera, etc.

There are tons of shoulder bags out there. I have a couple of Lowepros, and am very happy with them. You might want to consider one of their "Stealth Reporter" bags, they're very nice.

Im just worried that walking around for 10 hours at a time with a shoulder bag (which I will be doing during my week in NY) might get frustrating, given its losely hanging compared to a backpack. Also a shoulderbag will make it look far more obvious what I'm carrying. I guess both offer pros and cons.

wxwax wrote:

As for lens, the 10-22 rocks. An excellent choice. Either the 50 1.8 or the 85 1.8 is also an excellent choice. The 85 is not too "narrow." It will give you better bokeh than the 50.

Even though the 1.6 crop makes it 136mm?

chopsky

Art Scott wrote:

Chopsky....

I went looking on Ebay..found this approx 275 +s/h
Sigma 24-70 on ebay

24-70 at BH.....429 +S/H of course you can pick this up also

24 - 60 f2.8 at BH $399 +s/h......again you'll be able to just pick this up also...

I have extremely happy with my 24-70 2.8 siggy...I have always had great luck with my Sigma Lenses over all the years I have used them (around 25 yrs).

Thanks Art! Will look into it.

wxwax

chopsky wrote:

Im just worried that walking around for 10 hours at a time with a shoulder bag (which I will be doing during my week in NY) might get frustrating, given its losely hanging compared to a backpack. Also a shoulderbag will make it look far more obvious what I'm carrying. I guess both offer pros and cons.

When you put the strap around your neck and over one shoulder, it doesn't dangle, it stays put.

Can't help you on the security issue, luckily it's not been a problem for me.

I just found that I was a lot more reluctant to change lenses when I had to take-off a backpack, set it down, unzip it etc., than when I could slide a bag from from my back to my front, and reach in while simply standing there. Much more convenient.

chopsky wrote:

Even though the 1.6 crop makes it 136mm?

The crop factor is definitely an issue with the 85's focal length. But remember, the 350D's smaller sensor will make it harder to get good bokeh with the 50mm.

You'll need to decide what you're more likely to shoot: wider, or tighter with blurry backgrounds?

Hey, these are the fun problems to have!

chopsky

wxwax wrote:

The crop factor is definitely an issue with the 85's focal length. But remember, the 350D's smaller sensor will make it harder to get good bokeh with the 50mm.

You'll need to decide what you're more likely to shoot: wider, or tighter with blurry backgrounds?

Hey, these are the fun problems to have!

hah fair enough.
Does it make sense me getting both? Or will I most likely end up with one of them collecting dust?
Besides for dpchallenge, are there any other really good sites for seeing example photos of the different lenses?

wxwax

chopsky wrote:

hah fair enough.
Does it make sense me getting both? Or will I most likely end up with one of them collecting dust?
Besides for dpchallenge, are there any other really good sites for seeing example photos of the different lenses?

Absolutely it makes sense to get both! They're bargains, they're small and lightweight, they'll easily fit in your shoulder bag (), they take great picces.

Lots and lots of pluses to having both.

Of course, it's easy for me to spend your money!

Reviews here. Or Google.

WrenTheBlurry

Hello Chopsky,

Before I decided on my camera gear (just got it last November), I spent much, much time reading user reviews on Amazon, DP Review, and the Fred Miranda lens review forums.

I enjoyed the "So You'd Like To..." series on Amazon (just one example here), which combined with their user posted images with each lens and user reviews were a fine resource.

It took me WEEKS, but I eventually read every user review on lenses at Fred Miranda.

Note, in mentioning these other places I am in no way trying to slight the info here at Dgrin. I did not learn about Smugmug and Dgrin until *after* I did all my initial research and purchasing, and next time will either use the search function here and/or ask directly here, just as you did.

Now, all that said, about your lens...I will agree with what others have said about the 24-70 focal length. Although you mentioned the Canon 24-70 lens I got is out of your price range, I see some recommendations for similar ones at more affordable rates. I think this is a fantastic walk-around lens; very versatile!

And the bag---I too wanted a backpack, and went with this one, which was highly recommended. I wanted a backpack because my shoulders/back are prone to gimpiness and I figured the backpack would give me a more equal weight distribution. I like it, but I do not love it, as I hoped I would. If I try to fit all of my lenses in the bag, it bulges awkwardly at the sides and can be difficult to zip at that point. I have seen many good threads on bags here at Dgrin, and I will shop more carefully in the future. For the lenses you mention, I think this bag would work out quite well for you.

Have fun selecting all of your goodies!

happy day,

wren

cmason

Consider the Tamron 28-75. I compared to the Canon 24-70, and prefered the Tamron. I just liked its size and weight much better, as it is much smaller. It was also around $300. For $300, I could buy the lens, use it for a while until I am ready to upgrade. I recommend this approach, and you won't be disappointed in the lens.

TristanP

At this point, it seems the ultimate walk-around is the $1000+ 24-105 IS. For mere mortals, the 17-85 IS is also a nice range on the crop cameras and much less (~$500 new), plus it still has IS. The 50/1.8 is almost a crime not to get, if only for the large aperture (low-light or very narrow DoF uses) and low price. For low-light primes, I sometimes find my 50/1.4 too long, and would love to have the Sigma 30/1.4 in the bag. Since you'll be in NY for a week, what are the chances you can get a couple lenses to try out and return the one(s) you don't like?

ian408

I think the 24-105 offers you a degree of flexibility not found in many of
the other choices and that makes it a great walkabout lens.

If money is an issue, the 17-85 is a good choice too.

As far as something to carry it in, I would suggest something that combines
convenience with security. A Crumpler backpack is a great way to carry things
about without looking too much like a camera backpack. A bit on the pricey
side.

Let us know what you decide and do show us the results from your trip.

jdryan3

I also recommend the 24-70. If it is really out of your range, look at the 28-135 IS. Also since you will be at B&H in person, look at their used lenses. The more premium L glass (if available) doesn't sell for much under their list. But you may find bargains on the mid-range lenses from people who upgraded.

RE: walking around NYC, I would go for the slingshot, or messenger bag style that goes across your chest but allows easy access. I have backpacks and they are great for lugging stuff on airplanes, hiking, into the country, etc. but not what I use in The City. When (not if) you use the subway, the backpack will be a major inconvenience.

Again, buy your camera/lenses/accessories at B&H and then head to the bag section. You are there - take advantage of it. Since this is your first bag, leave a little extra room for that next lens, flash or whatever you are going to buy next year.

BTW - you will see TONS of people being anything but discreet with their camera bags and equipment. Go to WTC, Chinatown, you name it. Relax, be smart and have fun!

wxwax

jdryan3 wrote:

Since this is your first bag, leave a little extra room for that next lens, flash or whatever you are going to buy next year.

Good call.

LiquidAir

I have the Lowepro Slingshot AW200 and it is great. I usually keep the 5D, 4 lenses and a flash in it, so I find it big enough for my needs.

As for lenses to complement your 10-22:

The 85/1.8 is a great lens but on a crop body it is pretty long. You will want something between 22mm and 85mm for certain. If you are looking at primes, I'd consider the 50/1.4 or the 35/2.

Everything I have heard about the Tamron 28-75 has been very good. I'd put that high on your list of lenses to consider. My impression is that it is unmatched among midrange fast zooms in bang for the buck.

ginger_55

The second my tax thing is in the bank, hopefully tomorrow, I am ordering the Tamron f2.8 28-75 as a "normal" type lens.

After many yrs, it seems as a dGrin photographer, I finally decided I need a normal lens. And I know an excellent photographer who uses that lens, I have also read the reviews.

It is close to 400.00.

Does anyone want to sell me one before I buy one? I know lenses hold their value, so I am not concerned about paying full price at B&H.

It is much cheaper than the aforementioned Canon. To me f 2.8 is a good low light lens with some depth of field. I mean, 1.8 might be a good low light aperture, but a very narrow DOF, plus it is not a zoom.

So, not having read the last post, that is what I am doing and have to say.

Also, I have a Crumpler backpack and a belt. I agree that either one might be a bit much in NYC, Andy should know on that. But I hate my belt mainly because it hurts to wear.

Anyone want to buy it. It is a very good belt with things for just about every lens available. I have not kept it wrapped in cotton, don't know where the boxes are, but neither have I used it much.

It is very nice to carry water, but it cost me about 150.00 to get that water carrier. Other than that my back can't take the wt around my waist, and neither can my legs. I don't hold up all that long with the backpack, but it is much better than the belt. My husband, also with a bad back, but better lungs and 5 yrs younger, he wears the backpack with ease. Did I mention again that it is a crumpler. Pretty big one, too.

I had the Canon 10-22, loved it, it was stolen, replaced it with the Sigma 10-20. Liked the Canon better, but either is a good lens, and you should love the Canon.

ginger (Uh, you probably don't want to spend the 200.00 to get a backpack like that unless you are old like I am or have a premature back problem. Mine is not for sale, only my belt, and I am not pushing that as I might need the water this summer.)

JohnnyJr

I don't know if anyone has suggested the Canon EF 28-105 F/3.5-4.5 II USM, but it is an incredible value, light and very sharp. It is a good 'bridge' of focal lengths that would compliment the 10-22. The 50 1.4 is also great but you'll probably also start wishing you had something a bit longer. As for bags, I haven't found anything as comfortable and affordable as Timbuk2 bags. They are waterproof, durable, and low visibility, especially in the city. I've customized mine with domke inserts and it carries an amazing amount of gear. I tried so many other solutions and I'm finally happy with the Timbuk2. Lens, bag and insert would run you about $350.

chopsky

Guys, thanks for all your advice.

I think right now, Im just going to stick with the 10-22 & 50 1.8 for my first purchase. I really cant decide what else to get and I figure the 50 1.8 is so cheap I cant go wrong there. I can't yet afford canon's 24-70 2.8, so Im going to wait until I can instead of settling for 2nd best.

So here is what Im hoping to walk out with as my first SLR purchase:

Camera: Canon 350D
Lenses: Canon 10-22 & 50 1.8
Filters: B+W Polarizer, UV, Cokin A120 and A121 Grad ND
2 x 4gb Sandisk CF
Spare Battery
Naneu Pro U120 backpack (going to have to source this from someone other than B&H)
Hopefully an external flash and tripod if budget allows for it.

Thanks for all the advice.
Grant

Jeffro

chopsky wrote:

Guys, thanks for all your advice.

I think right now, Im just going to stick with the 10-22 & 50 1.8 for my first purchase. I really cant decide what else to get and I figure the 50 1.8 is so cheap I cant go wrong there. I can't yet afford canon's 24-70 2.8, so Im going to wait until I can instead of settling for 2nd best.

So here is what Im hoping to walk out with as my first SLR purchase:

Camera: Canon 350D
Lenses: Canon 10-22 & 50 1.8
Filters: B+W Polarizer, UV, Cokin A120 and A121 Grad ND
2 x 4gb Sandisk CF
Spare Battery
Naneu Pro U120 backpack (going to have to source this from someone other than B&H)
Hopefully an external flash and tripod if budget allows for it.

Thanks for all the advice.
Grant

You can't really go wrong with the $80 50 1.8, I had it for years, but now that I have the 50 1.4 I wish I would have had it all along. It works great for portraits on my 20D, and you can see the difference in the image.

I'm just saying..............:D

wxwax

chopsky wrote:

Camera: Canon 350D
Lenses: Canon 10-22 & 50 1.8
Filters: B+W Polarizer, UV, Cokin A120 and A121 Grad ND
2 x 4gb Sandisk CF
Spare Battery
Naneu Pro U120 backpack (going to have to source this from someone other than B&H)
Hopefully an external flash and tripod if budget allows for it.

Good looking list, Grant. Hadn't heard of Naneu before, hope to hear from you on your experience.

A full ND filter will be more useful than a split.

If you have photo editing software, you might save some money and not buy the Cokin, either: in real life the split doesn't match horizons the way it does in the sales shots; and the same effect is easy to achieve in post with multiple exposures from a tripod, or with multiple exposures of a highlight protected RAW file.

chopsky

wxwax wrote:

Good looking list, Grant. Hadn't heard of Naneu before, hope to hear from you on your experience.

A full ND filter will be more useful than a split.

If you have photo editing software, you might save some money and not buy the Cokin, either: in real life the split doesn't match horizons the way it does in the sales shots; and the same effect is easy to achieve in post with multiple exposures from a tripod, or with multiple exposures of a highlight protected RAW file.

The bag: http://www.naneupro.com/products.mdv?p=ug-u120

A review of the bag by popular photojournalist Chris Weeks: http://barbecuediguana.com/archives/2006/12/01/i-heart-the-u120/

It looks quite amazing to say the least, and is very well priced.

Anavado

Second Lens -- First Backpack

chopsky wrote:

Hey guys

Im going to be purchasing a 350D in a couple weeks time (during my 1 week trip in NYC). This will be my first venture into the world of SLR (bar the film SLR I've been using for the last week - its lenses arent great at all).
I'm set on getting the Canon 10-22mm as I love taking scenic/landscape shots (especially since I live in a city that lends itself to it).

Im really unsure what to get as second lens. Im looking for something that I can use more as a 'walk-around' lens.
A good friend of mine (and someone i believe to be a respectable photographer) has adviced me to get the 50mm 1.8. Probably a steal at $70 as well. Im looking at the 85 1.8 as well. I'm aware there's a relatively significant price difference, but I'm willing to spend a bit more cash, if it means buying more of an investment, rather than a lens I'll outgrow sooner. Is the 85 too narrow an angle for every day use? If I'm taking portraits, will I get significant bokeh with the 50?
I obviously want to be 100% happy with whatever I buy and not have to replace the lens in 6 months to a year.

Secondly, Im looking into buying a backpack for my camera. Assuming I successfully purchase my cam when I get there, Im going to be walking around New York hopefully every day with it, so I figured a backpack would be the best (most comfortable) solution for this. Do guys find that the backpacks make the camera gear extremely inaccessible when needing to change lenses etc.? Should I rather look into a slingshot?

Thanks!

I began my digital excursion over a year ago with a 350D. It is a great camera. However, the stock lens is very mediocre and I purchased a used EF 28-105 f/3.5-4.5. The quality exceeds the price you pay. There are three versions, make sure to get the Japan made version. For backpacks, there is no competition for the Lowepro Slingshot series. I began with the Lowepro Trekker AW II because I needed the room for camera, two alternate lens, Flash unit, batteries, charger, etc, etc, However, the Trekker became storage. It was simply too heavy for daily use. Then I purchased the Lowepro Slingshot 100 and it is perfect for short lightweight trips when I do not carry everything. I have since traded up to a Canon 30D and replaced the 28-105 with a EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM lens. And, I replaced the Trekker with a Slingshot 300. I use the Slingshot 300 for days I need it all and the Slingshot 100 for a more abreviated shooting day. The Trekker and the 28-105 are headed for eBay. You cannot go wrong with one of the Slingshot bags. There is just nothing as handy. And depending on your budget, a great start for a walking around lens is the EF 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 lens. It is near L quality for a bargain price. And, because of that, when you trade up, you will recover most of what you paid. I will sell you mine right now, or look on eBay. The non-Japan version sells for under $100 and the Japan version sells for under $200 on eBay. All the camera bloggers strongly recommend the Japan version. I had good luck with mine. Good luck.

Joe <Anavado>

wxwax

chopsky wrote:

A review of the bag by popular photojournalist Chris Weeks: http://barbecuediguana.com/archives/2006/12/01/i-heart-the-u120/

It looks quite amazing to say the least, and is very well priced.

Funny review.

JohnnyJr

Yes! Another Canon EF 28-105 F/3.5-4.5 II USM evangelist!! I really hope folks take a good look at this one. The key is to be sure it's the "II" version. Look up the reviews on Fred Miranda -- and compare to those for the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM. Quite telling, methinks.

Also, it balances SO well on the 350D body and the "near L quality" bit is no exageration. Honestly, can't go wrong with this one. Also... the advice on the 50 1.4 vs. 50 1.8 is well worth heading. Yes, the 1.8 is a bargain, but the 1.4 is an incredible bargain considering the jump in quality... I've agonized over every lens purchase (since I'm still paying VISA for all of them) and the 50 1.4, 28-105 F/3.5-4.5 II USM, and 85 1.8 have all been the easiest to justify in terms of value vs. quality in retrospect. These are lenses that you may never outgrow and very smart buys.

Anavado wrote:

I began my digital excursion over a year ago with a 350D. It is a great camera. However, the stock lens is very mediocre and I purchased a used EF 28-105 f/3.5-4.5. The quality exceeds the price you pay... And depending on your budget, a great start for a walking around lens is the EF 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 lens. It is near L quality for a bargain price. And, because of that, when you trade up, you will recover most of what you paid. I will sell you mine right now, or look on eBay. The non-Japan version sells for under $100 and the Japan version sells for under $200 on eBay. All the camera bloggers strongly recommend the Japan version. I had good luck with mine. Good luck.

Joe <Anavado>