Documentary shot of a cruel tradition (Warning)

cocasana

In the Dani tradition every family mourning women should amputate a falange!
New market, Wamena, Papua Barat, Indonesia.
Canon 1dmk2, Canon 70-200mm f/4.
As always I would be really interested in your opinion, comments, critiques...
Thanks, Carlo

kdog

Maybe I've lead a sheltered life, but that's one of the most cruel third-world country customs that I've seen.

Great shot, although I almost wish I hadn't looked at it. It's the kind of thing that will haunt you for life.

Your documentary photos of this area are outstanding. I take it that this area isn't a tourist mecca, to say the least. And yet the locals seem so comfortable with you. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who'd like to hear your story.

Regards,
-joel

wxwax

Holy cow!

What a shocking tradition.

Could you explain further? When a family member dies, does every woman in the family have to cut off part of a finger?

Ben Speck

Hi Carlo,
This is not a good documentary picture, because its only quality is that its shocking and ofputting. It does not make me want to find out more about this tradition, which is the one thing Documentary should do.
The hands, which is the most important detail are out of focus.
The face is screwed up in an expression diffucult to read, but she definately doesn't seem to trust you. It give me a sense of you exploiting her by taking this sensationalist picture. And its in focus but randomly blocked by the hand. If you wanna do documentary, don't shoot beggars on the street, unless you wanna tell us about beggars (I am just guessing here thats whats going on- bad sign that I havn't got a clue what environment she is in here). Tell me something about this womans daily life etc.
Also, you should be carefull about your framing at all times, no matter how shocking an image you create. The picture is totally uncontrolled, almost like you took it while retreating from her, because she scared you. You as a photographer are very present here, I personally prefer it when the photographer is invisible but the subject matter reignes the picture.

Malte

Ben Speck wrote:

Hi Carlo,
This is not a good documentary picture, because its only quality is that its shocking and ofputting. It does not make me want to find out more about this tradition, which is the one thing Documentary should do.
The hands, which is the most important detail are out of focus.
The face is screwed up in an expression diffucult to read, but she definately doesn't seem to trust you. It give me a sense of you exploiting her by taking this sensationalist picture. And its in focus but randomly blocked by the hand. If you wanna do documentary, don't shoot beggars on the street, unless you wanna tell us about beggars (I am just guessing here thats whats going on- bad sign that I havn't got a clue what environment she is in here). Tell me something about this womans daily life etc.
Also, you should be carefull about your framing at all times, no matter how shocking an image you create. The picture is totally uncontrolled, almost like you took it while retreating from her, because she scared you. You as a photographer are very present here, I personally prefer it when the photographer is invisible but the subject matter reignes the picture.

Wow. As far as first posts to forums go, that one's quite the ripper.

I'm looking forward to your first picture post as I'm sure it will be absolutely flawless.

Welcome to Dgrin.

Malte

Andy

Malte wrote:

Wow. As far as first posts to forums go, that one's quite the ripper.

I'm looking forward to your first picture post as I'm sure it will be absolutely flawless.

Welcome to Dgrin.

Malte

Malte

Actually, I find it refreshing! Folks get plenty of "great shot" responses. This was a genuine post, with some real "how it makes me feel" stuff. I'd love to see more of it. Is it direct? Sure. But we as photographers, when we post our stuff, should be able to take the good and the bad.

JESTER

I agree with Andy. Not everything in the world is a bed of roses. I have been around the world about four times and you would be amazed at some of the customs of some countries. I think it is correct to show the good and the bad. But thats just my opinion. It makes you think. Like Wxwax I too am curious as to whether it is one woman or all in the family that has to do this. The photo does raise your curiosity.

cocasana

Thank you all (old and new) digrinners for stopping and commenting.
Ben: I'm very sorry this shot doesn't make you what to know more about this cruel tradition, but I think you can agree with me that's very subjective! Isn't it?
When I had to choose which part to focus on I've chosen her face because of her suffering expression. I also thought that having her hands covering partially her face gave an interesting cause/effect sense to the photo. For my taste environment is quite clear: people in motion, a motorcycle: street photography! I'm sorry I really can' understand the trust problem! There was nothing to trust: she just showed me her hands trying -I guess- to point out to my attention that tradition. I wonder what makes you think I was retreating from her, as I wasn't. We sat together while she was explaining me about this tradition. In Papuan dialect. So you can imagine how much I've understood. I've asked to some English speaking Papuan people and the only thing I could get is that they do it to make visible their suffering.

Prezwoodz

Im going to have to agree with Ben for a few key points in this photo. Although I like the shot it didn't really stab at me. I think its because her hands are unfocused and when keying in on the tradition of cutting off her fingers it seems like that would be very important. Also does she find it cruel to cut her fingers for tradition? Does everyone follow these traditions or only those who still believe in them? Her face is covered by her hands which makes it seem incomplete and her face seems more angsty then having suffered.

bsvirginian

Actually it does all that it's supposed to do. I shows a different culture and life style. It does solicite questions. I do want to know more about the culture. I have seen similar atrocities in other third world nations. And to top it all off, the photography is technically good. Show us more! BS (Obviously this icon hasn't lost any family members)

SloYerRoll

This shot reminds me how genuinely blessed I am to live in the US and have customs that don't involve harming myself.
While the shot really gets your attention. I think a few posts in here are accurate about not really capturing the essence of this shot and just grabbing shock value. A story needed to be told about the picture instead of the picture telling the story. It would have been a great PJ shot if you were able to capture her in the greiving process and somehow drawing attention to her hands.
Regardless, thanks for sharing!

-Jon

cocasana

Speaking about the hands being out of foucus, at a certain moment I even thought to blur them a tad to have an effect similar to this shot, that I've posted a week or so ago. Then I didn't, because I don't like to work too much on my pics!
BTW, for thos who haven't already see it its Wim Tok Mabel's mummy held by one of his descendant. Apparently the mummy is 362 years old. Wim Tok Mabel was a "big man" and everybody in the valley wanted his advices. Even nowadays somebody is looking for them! Sumpaima village, Baliem valley (Papua Barat, Indonesia).

DavidTO

Carlo, that last is my favorite image of yours, so far.

dogwood

cocasana wrote:

Even nowadays somebody is looking for them! Sumpaima village, Baliem valley (Papua Barat, Indonesia).

Yeah, definitely a unique image. Your selective focus really works well here.

wxwax

I give this discussion my seal of approval.

It's been a good one.

bauerman

That last image is just fantastic........thanks for sharing these.

Tee Why

What a sad thing for a culture to propose.
I wonder what the men cut off if they have lost a family member.

JohnC

I think it’s a great shot with great detail on a cultural tradition, albeit, cruel, but nonetheless interesting.

Don’t stop posting any of your photos because I haven’t found one yet that I didn’t like, Cocasana.

System

interesting and neat photos-

great discussion, as sid said-

the cutting off of fingers over mourning is fascinating-

if it's turned into a custom that all, in a sense, have to follow, well, I dunno-

but if it's done in the frenzy and hysteria of true mourning?-

I would definitely like to know more-

anyway, thanks for posting it-

System

Call these photo's whatever you want, they are amazing captures of a world which time forgot.

Terrence

truth wrote:

Call these photo's whatever you want, they are amazing captures of a world which time forgot.

Well put! Keep it up. You are producing fantastic images and touching a lot of people with them. Bravo.