first telephoto portraits...my hand hurts.

urbanaries

Now, I am probably just being a wienie, but this shoot made me feel like I was a newbie all over again. The weight definitely affected my reflexes, and slowed down my decision process enough that I questioned every move. I couldn't decide what my aperture and shutter speed should be, for some reason, so I was in full auto a lot, which I hate.

I always thought I had a decent eye for action, but with the 70-200 I look through it and feel blind. Any feedback and suggestions would be much appreciated. I have a wedding in 3 weeks!!!

These are the best out of about 150. Had trouble getting anything sharp. Obviously the wide open ones are softer, but I think there has to be some user error in there.

Cropping and contrast boost are the only modifications thus far.

Be blunt.

1. f2.8, 200mm, 1/500th, iso 400


2. f5.0, 200mm, 1/500th, iso 360


3. f 2.8, 200mm, 1/250th, iso 400


4. f2.8, 77mm, 1/500th, iso400


5. f2.8, 70mm, 1/200th, iso 400


(And yeah, this is my little Harry, he'll be two this month!!!)

System

What focus mode were you using?

urbanaries

truth wrote:

What focus mode were you using?

AI Focus, but i think full auto restricts to One Shot? Didn't pay attention.

kini62

Nice colors etc.....

But they do all seem soft.

Try AI servo and center point focus.

Or better yet try taking some shots of non moving things at F2.8 at various focal lengths and in single AF mode to see if the lens is focussing properly.

If so, try and stop down a half or one stop when you have good light like that.

Gene

Oh and use Av mode if you're not already. I say that because you mention something about full auto.

Shay Stephens

Ya, it's a beasty isn't it. Heavy and ponderous.

I use AI Servo and primarily use the center focus point. I will use the other points as needed.

As far as tunnel vision, I keep my other eye open so I can see what is going on around me. I have to be careful doing that because I can really wig my eyes out if I am straining too much. When that happen I stop a moment and let the eyes rest and then just select a single subject for a bit. Also if there is a brief pause in the action, I pop my head up slightly so I can see what is going on.

For as big and heavy as it is, it still is my most used lens. I remember freaking out when I first got it due to the weight. But slowly over time you do get used to. But it is always going to be big and heavy.

The other tip is just really concentrate on focus. I probably spend as much effort on focus as I do composition. Even though the focus is automatic, it doesn't mean it is correct.

This was two weeks ago using the 70-200 f/2.8 IS


f/2.8 - 1/250 - ISO 100 - 115mm

It's a great lens! You are going to love it...soon hehehe

edit: I just can't seem to stop editing this post. Anyway, the hand pain. You have to learn to hold the lens. I hold its weight in my left hand almost fully. When I first got it, my middle finger really started hurting after a wedding like I had damaged it. I was basically holding the camera weight in my right hand and the strain was all centered on my middle finger. After a few more weddings I learned to hold the weight in my left hand and I try to consciously keep my right hand middle finger floating free of the body so it wont try to hold on. After a few months my finger stopped hurting and has not been hurt since. So learn early on how to hold it without damaging your hand. Very important!

Ted Szukalski

I really like the first shot but I'd make it a tiny bit less yellow. The softness here doesn't bother me at all. This is a young child and the facial lines are soft anyway. Really nice shot #1, just in case I did not emphasise it enough!

I have Sigma 70-200/f2.8 and it too waighs a bit but than you get sweet shots like that and you know the little muscle discomfort was more than worth it. ( monopod anyone?)

DJ-S1

The 3rd shot is 1/250 @ 200mm, but you're on a 20D right? That's 320mm, and probably too slow a shutter to handhold. Folks here suggested to me that 1/fl is a minimum for handholding unless you are very steady (and I'm not). I've found it to hold true, for me anyway. Even the 1/500 shots may be too slow if you are finding the lens heavy right now as you adjust to it.

Very cute little guy, btw!

spider-t

Shay Stephens wrote:

edit: I just can't seem to stop editing this post. Anyway, the hand pain. You have to learn to hold the lens. I hold its weight in my left hand almost fully. When I first got it, my middle finger really started hurting after a wedding like I had damaged it. I was basically holding the camera weight in my right hand and the strain was all centered on my middle finger. After a few more weddings I learned to hold the weight in my left hand and I try to consciously keep my right hand middle finger floating free of the body so it wont try to hold on. After a few months my finger stopped hurting and has not been hurt since. So learn early on how to hold it without damaging your hand. Very important!

Nice shot Shay. I agree with supporting the whole weight of the camera with your left hand. And I would also add to that to fix your elbow into your side. For me, I've got my upper arm firmly pressed against the left side of my left boob (lacking a better way to describe it). Then I lean back just a bit. That way, I'm only straining my bicep, which can last way longer than my wrist or back. Use your whole body to find support.

And try continuous servo focusing for moving subjects.

-Trish

DavidS

Nice shots. I really like the third one.

urbanaries

Ted Szukalski wrote:

I really like the first shot but I'd make it a tiny bit less yellow. The softness here doesn't bother me at all. This is a young child and the facial lines are soft anyway. Really nice shot #1, just in case I did not emphasise it enough!

I have Sigma 70-200/f2.8 and it too waighs a bit but than you get sweet shots like that and you know the little muscle discomfort was more than worth it. ( monopod anyone?)

thanks ted! he was dancing in that first one, if you can't tell from his shirt he has good taste in music. Thanks for the color check, its hard sometimes to know how much to cool that sunset light off in post without losing its benefit. I agree now I didn't cool it off enough compared to others.

Monopod is on my equip list to buy next time I make it to the camera store...for sure. It was on our agenda this evening but the little guy got sick in the shoe store next door...long story.......just hope i'm not next.:cry

urbanaries

DJ-S1 wrote:

The 3rd shot is 1/250 @ 200mm, but you're on a 20D right? That's 320mm, and probably too slow a shutter to handhold. Folks here suggested to me that 1/fl is a minimum for handholding unless you are very steady (and I'm not). I've found it to hold true, for me anyway. Even the 1/500 shots may be too slow if you are finding the lens heavy right now as you adjust to it.

Very cute little guy, btw!

thanks dj...

ok, yes i appreciate the reminder, to factor in the crop factor when handholding. i have become so complacent with my other lenses!

urbanaries

Shay Stephens wrote:

Ya, it's a beasty isn't it. Heavy and ponderous.

ponderous....good word Shay!

Shay Stephens wrote:

As far as tunnel vision, I keep my other eye open so I can see what is going on around me.

.....The other tip is just really concentrate on focus. I probably spend as much effort on focus as I do composition. Even though the focus is automatic, it doesn't mean it is correct.

thanks for your post shay, this is exactly the kind of advice i was looking for. I had learned to keep both eyes open because it puts subjects a little more at ease, but its like I forgot everything I'd ever learned!

Shay Stephens wrote:

edit: I just can't seem to stop editing this post. Anyway, the hand pain. You have to learn to hold the lens. I hold its weight in my left hand almost fully. When I first got it, my middle finger really started hurting after a wedding like I had damaged it. I was basically holding the camera weight in my right hand and the strain was all centered on my middle finger. After a few more weddings I learned to hold the weight in my left hand and I try to consciously keep my right hand middle finger floating free of the body so it wont try to hold on. After a few months my finger stopped hurting and has not been hurt since. So learn early on how to hold it without damaging your hand. very important!

this is extremely helpful, i am definitely not holding the lens properly. After 20 minutes I noticed a cramping in my middle finger exactly like you mentioned. nothing major but the thought of an 8 hour wedding gig scared me, so i'm thankful to get this kind of specific technique advice.

This may sound obvious but how are you zooming exactly? with your thumb above or below the barrel? I couldn't tell what felt more comfortable/accurate. Also, using the grip in portrait orientation helped the strain some; wondered if you're using one on the 20d too, and/or what type of bracket. That's on my list for next week...scott quier recommended a Newton, but I can't find one locally to get my hands on.

Awesome shot by the way...thanks for dangling the carrot.

urbanaries

spider-t wrote:

Nice shot Shay. I agree with supporting the whole weight of the camera with your left hand. And I would also add to that to fix your elbow into your side. For me, I've got my upper arm firmly pressed against the left side of my left boob (lacking a better way to describe it). Then I lean back just a bit. That way, I'm only straining my bicep, which can last way longer than my wrist or back. Use your whole body to find support.

And try continuous servo focusing for moving subjects.

-Trish

very very helpful, will definitely put this advice to use.

i love dgrin!!! i'd be lost without you guys.

urbanaries

DavidS wrote:

Nice shots. I really like the third one.

thanks david....after some snot cleanup and USM, i think that one's a keeper, too.

Shay Stephens

urbanaries wrote:

This may sound obvious but how are you zooming exactly? with your thumb above or below the barrel? I couldn't tell what felt more comfortable/accurate. Also, using the grip in portrait orientation helped the strain some; wondered if you're using one on the 20d too, and/or what type of bracket.

My left hand palm is under the lens, thumb pointing up. I zoom with the fingers while the palm holds the lens/camera.

I have just a stock 20D, no extra battery grip. And I am using off camera lighting, so I don't have flash bracket on the camera either. The only thing on the camera is the pocket wizard. Sorry, no help there.

urbanaries

Shay Stephens wrote:

My left hand palm is under the lens, thumb pointing up. I zoom with the fingers while the palm holds the lens/camera.

I have just a stock 20D, no extra battery grip. And I am using off camera lighting, so I don't have flash bracket on the camera either. The only thing on the camera is the pocket wizard. Sorry, no help there.

actually, that is helpful. i was considering having my assistant (who's really more use to me as a grip rather than a 2nd photog) follow me around with the 580 on a lightstand, at least for the reception and formals. I just really love how that setup works in my portrait work. If it works for me and there's an established comfort level, maybe i shouldn't try to fight it just because the pro I assisted did it that way. (and i didn't like his style anyway, too traditional).

Shay Stephens

urbanaries wrote:

If it works for me and there's an established comfort level, maybe i shouldn't try to fight it just because the pro I assisted did it that way. (and i didn't like his style anyway, too traditional).

You are in a sail boat, work with the wind, not against it, you'll go farther and have a better time doing it

gpphotos

yea, someone mentioned having your elbow against your chest helps to support the weight.

another method i use when i dont need to use the zoom all the time is to put my left hand over on my right forearm and rest the lens on my left elbow. (harry posted a pic of this i think but its in an older thread) I've found that its actually much more stable if i need to shoot a longer exposure...i take a breath, wait for the viewfinder to still (and the VR to engage and autofocus) and then click, then exhale. breath, still, click, exhale. just don't pass out from holding your breath too long

photogmomma

Lynne, these are a lot of fun! I have no serious advice for you - I have the 75-300mm and it's very soft. I've had a lot of fun with it and gotten some fun photos (my mud photos were taken with it).

My favorites are #2, 3, 5. Those are really wonderful. I love the action and expressions and composition.

One thing I found was that it was a little easier to be a little further away and crop after the fact. But that may just be bad technique.

How do you like your lens so far? That's the next one on my list!

Sorry I wasn't any help!

WrenTheBlurry

Hey Lynne,

Nice series. My favorite is number 1, especially now that I know he was dancing, heh. Plus, that is indeed a great shirt; when he's older I'd recommend reading this book to him. I consider this information vital to my boys' music knowledge!

As for the hand pain and such, you have gotten much helpful advice. I have a 70-200 as well, and it is beastial--four pounds! I am a short and small thing, and worried about how it would feel hefting it around all day. I never forget it is there, but holding the lens (as suggested) does really help.

Also, I feel it's important to do lots of stretching. Take a break during a long shoot whenever you can. It does not need to be long, just a minute or two to bend your fingers back towards you, and also press them down. Do this for both hands, and throw in some wrist circles, and you're golden!

happy day,

wren