Canon/Nikon Color Question by PM

Andy

Andy wrote:

I and your volunteer helpers get a zillion private messages asking for help.

We won't answer them in private message. I've asked everyone to post new threads with the PMs, and answer the questions in the open forum.

WHY?

A question by ONE (you) can be answered by MANY (me, and all of the fine helpers on Dgrin). The answer by ONE can benefit MANY (you and the others that are new, or haven't yet asked the question, or maybe they find the thread by searching.

You do yourself a disservice, too - I'm not the only one that can answer - and I have been known to be incorrect ...once or twice :lol3

So, please - no private message questions for help.

Thank you for 100% cooperation and understanding.

PM wrote:

I like the kind of photos you take, specifically the way colors look (as compared to the Nikon photos I've seen, which to me seem slightly muted in color) Would you say this look is unique to Canon or can you achieve the same with a Nikon body using a different color space? Is it a result of your tweaking the RAW pictures in post?

Thanks for your consideration,

I would like to hear from some Nikon shooters first, before I chime in on this.

DoctorIt

This is totally subjective, but nonetheless: I still maintain that I've never gotten better straight out of camera color than from my D2H. My new 30D is great, but needs more tweaking to get that "look".

Is there a real "answer" for this question?

tjtarr

Andy wrote:

I would like to hear from some Nikon shooters first, before I chime in on this.

Sorry for the PM mistake, and thanks for still posting for comment. I wanted to avoid the well-tread Nikon vs. Canon debate, since I'm more interested in the color issue, which seems to be a subjective, personal preference, not unlike film choice.

For example, I might prefer Velvia whereas others might prefer Kodachrome, and really it probably depends on the subject being shot. But since you can't "switch out the film" in a DSLR, it seems important to select a camera body based on whether you like the look of the photos it takes.

But maybe you and others will tell me that a Nikon can be made to look like a Canon and vice-versa with the correct color modes.

Also, at least from what I can find online, it seems that a lot of people/urban photographers on the internet are using Canon and a lot of wildlife/landscape folks are using Nikon. I really wanted to find some good photographers shooting some closeups or some nitty-gritty urban stuff with Nikon but had a hard time doing so. This may have something to do with the detail debate (cmos vs. ccd, etc.) and that's probably a whole other can of worms.

Clearly one can make good photos with any type of camera, but I thought the best way to decide would be to find photographers making the kind of photos I want to make and go with the manufacturer (not necessarily the expensive bodies) they use.

Thanks.

ziggy53

My father has a Nikon D70 and I have Canon XT and 1D MKII. I see several differences between the two systems, Nikon and Canon.

The first is noise reduction.

Canon appears to have the significant edge regarding low image noise. This appears to be the result of three related technologies.

1) On-chip noise reduction.
2) Low noise pre-amp circuits.
3) Enhanced noise reduction firmware in the Digic Image Processor.

The result is creamy smooth images, almost whether you want it or not. Sometimes it even looks a little pasty.

By comparison, the Nikon cameras deliver a more "film like" noise pattern, that many shooters prefer. At very high ISO, it can interfere with fine detail, but for many images (with simple subjects especially), I prefer the low ISO noise pattern of the Nikon.

I regard the flash exposure system of Nikon cameras (i-TTL) as a significant advantage over any other camera, including Canon E-TTL II. I can consistently achieve what I believe are proper flash exposures without fiddling over the exposure with FEC. With Canon I often have to adjust according to lens and distance, and then compensate the image in post with custom curves. (i2e processed RAW images are encouraging, however, and may change the way I shoot. )

The colors in Nikon cameras seem richer and more saturated, but honestly, these are things I can easily control in post by the subject, so I think I prefer the Canon system better overall.

I really think I could be happy with either camera system, and I would probably like the newer Pentax systems as well, for entirely different reasons. (I was originally saving for a Nikon D70, but was distracted by an offer for a gently used Canon XT/350D. Now I am pretty deeply committed to a Canon system in glass and procedures.)

I hope you were looking for opinion, because that is what I offer. The above is very much IMHO, and worth every cent you paid for it.

Best,

wxwax

ziggy53 wrote:

The colors in Nikon cameras seem richer and more saturated

Interesting.

I've noticed that Harry's blue skies are generally not especially rich and saturated, so I assume he's making choices in post which affect this.

Seymore

First off TJ... Welcome to DGRIN. I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay here. Feel free to ask most anything. You may not get a direct answer to some questions... but the guidance here can help you to make the decision that is best suited for you.

Let me say that I've never shot with a Canon. But if you'd like to peruse my work, (linky at bottom of post) it will help you to get an idea what the D70 and D100 can do color wise. Good luck with your camera decision...

HarveyMushman

tjtarr wrote:

For example, I might prefer Velvia whereas others might prefer Kodachrome, and really it probably depends on the subject being shot. But since you can't "switch out the film" in a DSLR, it seems important to select a camera body based on whether you like the look of the photos it takes.

This weekend I was reading about Fuji’s new S5 Pro, which is based on Nikon’s D200 body but utilizes a unique sensor. One of the S5’s features is a film simulation mode, which is said to allow you to choose the “film type” you want to suit a certain scene or situation. One of the modes, as you might imagine, gives Velvia-like saturation and sharpness while others are tuned more for natural skin tones or other effects. Pretty neat, if it works.

More info: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/proPhotoProductS5.jsp

pathfinder

DSLRs create color images by using Red, Green, and Blue sensitive silicon cells that then create three separate B&W images, that are than used to create the colored image.

The technology of three seperate B&W images - one captured through a red filter, an other through a green filter and a third through a blue filter have been done well over hundred years.

Since the color is recreated from the three B&W images, I would submit that you can obtain similar or different colors based on how the three grayscale images are processed, whether the processing is done in camera, or later in Photoshop.

In short, I think with the right processing you could not tell if an image's color was shot with a Nikon, a Canon, a Pentax, a Samsung. Well, you get what I am saying.

Some lenses are known to create a warmer or a cooler toned image. Nonetheless, this can easily be corrected in post processing so the issue is moot, unless you are planning on only using straight from the camera jpgs, which is probably not what most of us here are going to do.

LiquidAir

Color reproduction is far to complicated to simply generalize the difference between camera systems.

Things I have noticed about color from shooting my Canon 5D:

Which RAW converter I use matters. I get significantly different color from different converters (DPP, ACR and DxO are the ones I use).

The light source matters. Even after color balancing, I get better color the closer the color temperature of the light source was to daylight. Low wattage incandecents and blue cloudy days tend to be recipies for less than satisfying color.

The choices the photographer make both at the time of the shot and in post have a much larger effect on the quality of color than the choice of gear.

tjtarr

Thanks!
Thanks for all the thoughtful and experienced feedback! It sounds like the color question is moot so long as you master your camera and post-production color balance settings. Also, it probably differs between models more than I realized (i.e. all models in a manufacturer's lineup do not render the same color space by default)

I looked at many of your galleries and found great pictures taken by all manner of Nikon and Canon cameras in all settings, which goes to show that it's all about composition and your own sense of metering and white balance, not the body manufacturer. Thanks for sharing this work.

The main difference that seems to come up here (and elsewhere) is the CMOS vs CCD, image processing, and the "smoothness" vs. "natural grain" differences, which I guess are all a matter of personal preference. I'm pretty sure I like the Nikon interfaces, build-quality, and feature sets better but I'm tempted by the subjective qualities of the Canon inner-electronics. But I'll have to review some more pics from both so be sure.

I'll probably be entering more on the entry level at first (Canon 400D/20D or Nikon D40/D70) than at a 5D or D200 level or higher.

Thanks again and if there are any other new thoughts, I'd be happy to see them. Happy shooting!

gus

My view...people process in their own style. Its like recognising a painting by the artists style...photo processing is no different as its done to an individuals eye.

Seymore

tjtarr wrote:

I'll probably be entering more on the entry level at first (Canon 400D/20D or Nikon D40/D70) than at a 5D or D200 level or higher.

Thanks again and if there are any other new thoughts, I'd be happy to see them. Happy shooting!

Might I suggest you not even consider the D40. This is truly an entry level body and gives very little room for enhancements. The D50, being a step above, would be a better option if you wanted the ability to grow a bit further. And the D70/D70s would allow even more options, and could still play backup as you grew and advanced to an even better body.

Just a few more Nikon thoughts for you...

carmel6942

I am no expert on the DSLR camera, but I just went through this same process on determining which camera system to buy. I read alot of threads on here comparing the nikon and canon systems and posted a couple of questions also. I checked out all the camera reviews that I could find and had an idea of the systems I wanted to look at. I decided on the nikon D50, I was thinking about the D80 but cost was a factor for me. The reason I chose the D50 was the feel of the camera. I went to best buy and had them pull the canons and the nikons they had in stock. My wife and I both liked the feel of the nikon better. So that is what we chose. If you haven't went to a camera shop and played with the cameras I would suggest that you do this before making your decision.