Image security
JimW
Registered Users Posts: 333 Major grins
I have a new smugmug website, and want to make sure I understand the situation regarding the security of my images. After reading tons of threads and help pages, I’ve boiled it down to this set of truths.
- Anyone who can see my images can take them.
- I can watermark them, but if I do that at the bottom, they’ll just crop it off in Photoshop.
- I can watermark them across the middle of the image, but it seems to me this would ruin the photos.
- I can post really tiny images so the thief can’t print them. But, they could still post them on their website.
- I can put them in private galleries, but then no one can see them.
- I have to make a decision to keep everything private or else let it all go public. If I let it all go public, I should expect to be ripped off. I should not be surprised if it happens. And if I am ripped off, there’s really very little I can do about it. I read where you have to copyright your images AND register them with some copyright office. Then, if someone takes them, I will need a lawyer if I want to do anything about it.
Can anyone who understands this issue tell me, have I got it about right? Anything that I’ve misunderstood?
Thank you very much
- Anyone who can see my images can take them.
- I can watermark them, but if I do that at the bottom, they’ll just crop it off in Photoshop.
- I can watermark them across the middle of the image, but it seems to me this would ruin the photos.
- I can post really tiny images so the thief can’t print them. But, they could still post them on their website.
- I can put them in private galleries, but then no one can see them.
- I have to make a decision to keep everything private or else let it all go public. If I let it all go public, I should expect to be ripped off. I should not be surprised if it happens. And if I am ripped off, there’s really very little I can do about it. I read where you have to copyright your images AND register them with some copyright office. Then, if someone takes them, I will need a lawyer if I want to do anything about it.
Can anyone who understands this issue tell me, have I got it about right? Anything that I’ve misunderstood?
Thank you very much
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
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Regardless, it seems a moot point. If I can somehow block large sizes, then they'll steal medium sizes, right?
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
More on how we create display copies: http://www.smugmug.com/help/display-quality
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Disabling Save photo, plus disallowing access to the original size takes you at least part way to protecting your images. (But of course as both you and Andy have already said, nothing will prevent someone from using a screen capture tool and saving images that way.)
I also find copyright notices plastered across images very distracting. I don't mind copyrights along the edge - although as you stated someone can simply cut them off - but I won't even look at galleries where the copyright is splashed across the photo. You're absolutely right that someone can photoshop them off of the photo.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
(I recently bought an epson r2400, the paper feed broke after one month, I sent it back, and they replaced it with a used (reconditioned) model that doesn't print as well, and there's nothing I can do about it, they don't promise to replace defective units with a new one.)
Thanks for the help and link.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
Since I haven't read about sizing issues yet, I don't understand how disabling the original would make any difference. It's only 600 px. But now I'll have to look into that and read up.
And I never noticed Save photo, don't know what it is yet, so as you can see, I have much to learn. Thank you very much for alerting me. I'll have to read up on that too.
Thanks Denise.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
And I didn't realize when I looked at your gallery that your originals (as uploaded) aren't very big. I always upload my originals just in case I want to print the photos, but I have Originals set to No in all of my public galleries.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Interesting. So I'm still not clear on whether I should turn originals off. If I do, then SM's "large" size will be available to thiefs. I wonder what size that would be? I'd better go back to read the link Andy gave.
One thing I've noticed is that every single little trick that SM has for thwarting bad guys can easily be overcome by them. But I guess we all like a little false sense of security.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
I have to say that I went through some of the same thought process that you are now going through. Mine was triggered by someone telling me that she liked my photos and saying that she was saving some of them to use as the wallpaper on her computer. At that point I disabled the right click save and started playing with placing a copyright notice on my photos. I quickly realized that placing a copyright across the center of the photo annoyed me so much that I won't look at galleries that do that - so I couldn't do that to my own photos. And I still haven't placed a copyright on the edge of my photos because as you said, it can be easily chopped off. At least I know my originals are not available, and while I know that people can still grab the image using a screen capture utility or via the browser cache, I also know that they won't get a good quality print from it.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Thanks for answering with that graphic. It made it easy for me to look for it.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
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Thank you Andy. Now I'll redirect my reading towards my account type, see if maybe I should have a Pro account.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
It looks like you're getting plenty of advice in this thread about all the knobs and controls that Smugmug has to let you configure access to your photos. Before you decide exactly what sttings to pick in Smugmug, I think we should spend a little time talking about what you are trying to accomplish with your Smugmug account. What is your primary goal? At one end of the spectrum is the "family share" user who is just trying to efficiently share photos with friends and family. At the other end of the spectrum is the "pro" who is trying to maximize their photography-related income. Where are you in this spectrum?
The reason I ask this question and why it's important is that everything involving image security is a trade-off space. Tighter image security generally makes things harder to find, harder to use or reduces what the viewer can do with the images. Sometimes that's the intention, sometimes that actually detracts from your goal.
Can you describe what your primary goal with your photo web-site is?
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I'm just starting out as a pro photog, after a wrapping up a previous career. If someone is considering hiring me, but wants to see some of my work, then I would like to be able to send them to a website to see it. So last fall I started creating my smugmug site, for that purpose. I have no secondary purpose, at this point.
Regarding security, from everything I've read, all these little bells and whistles, such as blocking large and right-click-protect, don't seem to do anything at all to stop bad guys. If they want 'em, they're gonna get 'em.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
well if you are worried about the bad guys getting medium sized pics with a watermark across it, yes, they can get those.....
There is no site on the internet where you can show a nice sized example of your work, without a watermark, that can't be lifted off the screen or found in the user's cache... That's why, unfortunately, the watermarks have to be used.
Well as a pro, I'll assume your goal is to make money. If you generalize for a moment, you could put the world into two halves, those who want to be honest if given an easy way to do so and those are looking for a way to "cheat" the system.
I figure that, no matter what you do, it's the honest folks that are the most likely to pay you so what you want to do is deliver them the best exerpience possible. In my opinion, putting a giant opaque watermark right over the middle of the image is just going to detract from your images so much that even your honest viewers are going to be put off. On the other hand, turning off originals, adding right click protection and putting a translucent watermark in a non-obtrusive place doesn't impact the viewing experience much at all, but does send a subtle message that this is a for profit site and, if you want these images, you should pay. It encourages honest users to be honest and removes the simple temptations to do otherwise.
For the viewers looking for a way to cheat, don't sweat it. You should make sure the front door isn't left wide open, but if they're really not interested in paying and they want to "cheat the system", as long as your images can be viewed on the web, they can always take a screen shot and modify that so just don't worry about it.
A subtle translucent and professional watermark in an appropriate location keeps them from doing anything serious with your images or taking them as their own, but if they really don't want to pay, nothing is going to make them pay. If a teenager looking to cheat the system wants part of your image where the watermark can be cropped out for their own personal web-site, well that's what they are going to do. They wouldn't have paid anythning under any circumstances anyway so you haven't really lost any money. This is not like getting a physical good stolen from a retail store. You don't actually "lose" any money when someone steals.
If making money is your objective, then it's actually more important to cater to the people that actually want to buy something than it is to stop people who are looking to cheat and weren't very likely to buy anything anyway. If you turn up the volume on the watermark, you might suceed in discouraging the thief, but you are also likely to scare off your paying customers. If you did that, you would have fewer thieves and less overall income which is probably not the real objective.
For most, I think it's an emotional issue that someone might steal their images, but if they weren't very likely to buy anything anyway, it doens't cost you anything when they steal the images. But, locking your imges down so nobody will be tempted to steal them does cost you business from willing customers.
So, to maximize your income, I'd suggest you stop losing sleep over the occasional thief and concentrate on serving those who are likely to buy your images.
I'd suggest the following settings, in this priority order:
- Disable download of originals (no point in leaving the front door open and most buyers don't need to see the original before making a buy decision)
- Create a nice, subtle, translucent watermark and put it somewhere around the lower 1/3 position in your image. This usually keeps it off people's faces, but makes it hard to crop out. In my opinion, many pros overdo the watermark and, while it may serve as a deterrent from theft, it so detracts from the honest viewers experience that they are a lot less likely to buy. I think the goal is to subtlely remind the honest buyer that they should buy. Nothing will convince the determined thief to buy, but you can restrict what the thief can do with your image with an appropriate watermark.
- Turn on right-click protection with a customized copyright message. I don't actually believe right-click protection provides very much protection because any knowledgable user can defeat it pretty easily, but turning it on gives you the opportunity to add a customized copyright message if someone tries it. It's just one more reminder that this is a "for profit" site and honest folks who want the pictures should pay.
- Disable larges. This is more of a debatable call. In my opinion, buyers are more likely to buy if you let them see the large size. Slideshows work a lot better with the large size and viewers who "go in for a closer look" will be wowed by the large size on screen. As a photographer myself, I know that you can't really see the fine quality of an image from a medium size so I think it's important to let them see larges. I would probably gauge my audience on this one. If you're selling fairly inexpensive prints (as opposed to rare and expensive, fine art) and many people in yor audience may only be after 4x6 prints or your audience is on the younger side (selling to high school students, for example), then you probably should disable larges. If your audience is more likely buying fine art and will usually want to go larger than 4x6, then you'll probably sell more by letting them see larges. Some hipper audiences are served well by offering them a small pixel digital download for a reasonable price. Since they often have online uses for photos these days (my space, blogs, etc...), offering them what they want in the first place may encourage them to buy rather than steal.
- External Linking off. This is again a bit of a judgement call. If you want to use external linking (forum postings, blog postings, etc...) as a regular means of driving traffic to your site, then you should absolutely do so. If you don't intend to use external linking yourself, then you might as well turn it off. If you only want to use external linking in only a few circumstances, then you can make copies of the few photos you want to externally link to a separate gallery that is not public and is otherwise locked down and you can link to them from there. Again, external linking isn't a real security tool, it just makes casual misuse harder.
Things I would generally avoid for selling to as broad an audience as possible are:- Passwords. While this is a storng form of protection, all it really does is restrict who could be a potential customer. Now lots of honest people can't possibly be customers. If you want to sell to as many people as possible, locking the door to the art gallery isn't going to sell more art. It will keep the art safe, but you can only sell in private viewings.
- Private Galleries. This would be like opening an art gallery and then not telling anyone where the gallery is. Unless you are only trying to sell in private viewings in some circumstances, I don't know why you'd do this. This also isn't really a form of security. It's more like an unlisted phone number. You don't advertise where the gallery is, but anyone who knows where it is can still come right in.
In a nutshell, I think most folks need to stop losing sleep over people who steal. Close the front door so it's not easy to steal. After that, focus all your energy on the vast majority of people who want to be honest so they can have the best experience on your site as possible and make it the most likely that they will buy. Remember, stopping one thief and impacting the viewing experience of all your likely customers is not going to make you more money than optimizing the experience of the likely customers even if there's an occasional thief.I hope this was useful.
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1. disable dl of originals - done
2. I need to research this. Specifically, I need to see some of these translucent, subtle watermarks you're talking about. The only kind I remember seeing are unacceptable to me. They ruin the image. So I'll keep an open mind on this, and I'll look around for some of those subtler ones.
3. right click protection - I don't have a pro acct, I have a power acct so this is not available to me. And if it doesn't really deter the bad guys, then I guess I don't see spending more money for it.
4. same deal - only available to pro acct.
5. not sure what you mean by "using external linking to drive traffic to your site". I do understand that external linking is for posting images in forums, but never thought that I'd find customers in forums. Or am I missing something?
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my last post. I'm not using my SM site to sell prints to anyone, not even my customers. I make the prints myself, and only post photos on my SM site so that potential customers can have a way to see my work. I don't upload high res. I only upload 72 dpi, 600 px on the long side.
Of course, at the rate I'm learning about this crazy online world, all my plans could change. But that is my only purpose right now, today. (As an example of my rookie status, I just found out yesterday what keywords were all about. I had been going into my galleries and deleting the keywords one photo at a time because they just looked like clutter to me. And they kept coming back, until I discovered how to make them disappear for good. And then I read about what they were used for, which I still am digesting)
As you could probably tell from my original post, I am expecting to be ripped off, and am dealing NOW with the emotional aspects, and with the possible recourse (none), so that I won't be surprised and upset if and when it happens.
I agree with everything you said, and your post was very helpful. Thank you.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
Ahhh. I assumed you had a pro account because I assumed that you'd be selling prints online to make money. To many assumptions on my part, I guess.
As for custom watermarking, that is also only a pro tool, so unless you want to upgrade your account, that isn't available either.
The bottom line here is that many of the Smugmug features targetted at people trying to make money from their photos are in the "pro account" category. In time, I would guess that you'll want access to some of those features.
Here's a range of watermarks that I found by looking at the people's sites who participated in the watermarking thread. You can look at them yourself to gauge for yourself how well they might work:
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I read the thread and checked out each link. And now I need to think about it all before I can decide. Thank you again John.
I don't want the cheese, I just want to get out of the trap.
http://www.jimwhitakerphotography.com/
Your welcome. Glad to be helpful.
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I wish I had a writeup like this one when I was making my own decisions about what to do with my photos in an attempt to prevent folks from just grabbing them. I somehow ended up at pretty much the same point as your recommendation - it just took me a while to get there.
My initial purpose in creating a SmugMug presence was to share my photos (and adventures) with family and friends, but I'd like to move beyond that. Of course that's a longer term goal, but for now I want to protect my photos as much as I can but still make them available for viewing. My intent was to watermark my photos, but the more I played with watermarks the more I realized that the only marks acceptable to me are on the edges of the photos (and your links to various watermarked galleries was a good verification of that thought for me). So for now my photos are bare.
Thanks for your very detailed posts.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Bounty photographer
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I am not even sure that most people with pro account are actually making profit, but what the heck.
Thank you for your feedback
BP
We have many thousands of pros who are making a lot of money with their pro accounts
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