I think that the contest is about the final photograph, not the idea...about the execution of the idea. So if you have an idea and you execute it less well than the person who is inspired by you, so be it. No matter what the contest, or mechanism for displaying a photo, there will be very little work that hasn't been tried by someone else somewhere else some other time..........
Point 2 : This is my gripe which I am worried about. Suppose I post and idea, a brilliant idea and somebody copies it, and we have two photos looking similar in the thread. How will it be decided who copies whom etc., etc., It is a worry.
We're all copying someone. There's not a photographer here that isn't copying another, building on what's been done before. That's the nature of art, for the most part. It's evolutionary. The true revolutions are few and far between. And if any of us stepped up and created a revolution in photography, well, then there'd be "no contest."
Point 2 : This is my gripe which I am worried about. Suppose I post and idea, a brilliant idea and somebody copies it, and we have two photos looking similar in the thread. How will it be decided who copies whom etc., etc., It is a worry.
I do not at all think your idea of submissions being "hidden" until the deadline is a bad one (though I'm not sure necessary). I'm also intimately familiar with the bulletin board software and I know there's actually a hack/mod out there (or there used to be) that makes it so you can't see the replies to a post until you actually reply yourself, which might also somewhat accomplish the same goal (you wouldn't see submissions until you yourself had already entered).
That said, being the type I am, I also know that there are NO original ideas (or very few). Two people can very innocently have the same idea, that they THINK is original, without either of them intentionally copying the other. I don't think it's always fair to assume that one person has out-and-out copied another's idea just because their entry came in one or two days later and looks similar. There are only so many ways to skin a cat.
I also think it's important to be realistic. I love the idea of discussion about the photos, as to me that's part of the point... but this IS a contest. So if you are hoping that the people you are competiting against are ALL going to encourage you to put up a masterpiece, you're wrong. ! Don't leave it up to your competition to decide for you, since they are out to win too. Maybe that comes across cynical on my part... don't mean for it to... I just think there's SOME truth to it. You really can't be mad if you put of 3 variations of a photo and asked your competition to pick which was the best... they ARE, in fact, your competition.
Amy Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep. The Dang Gallery on DangRabbit - Follow me on Twitter or on Facebook Leica M8: Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon and 50mm f/2 Planar; Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5, 50mm f/1.5 Nokton and 75mm f/2.5 Heliar
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Actually my gripe is a little other way too.
I am thinking of an idea about #2. Somebody posts it. Now I will feel guilty about posting a similar photo, even though I am not copying. I will think that if I post the image I was thinking about earlier, everyone will think I am copying. If I havent seen the entries, this problem wont arise.
Case in point
"On the rocks".
I was thinking of putting in a golden drink on ice cubes, or maybe drop ice cubes into the drink and click at the moment, but when this entry came, I started working on another angle, though if I had posted a similar post, it would not really have been a copy!
There were some entries on the thread, and It strick me X copied Y. I made a judgement on X, just because Xs photo was posted lot after Y and it was very similar!
So my gripe has little to do with originality, but more to do with percieved originality.
Point 2 : This is my gripe which I am worried about. Suppose I post and idea, a brilliant idea and somebody copies it, and we have two photos looking similar in the thread. How will it be decided who copies whom etc., etc., It is a worry.
I guess for my point 2 the only solution would be that the submissions are not revealed to the public until the contest deadline is over. So we can mail etc., our submissions to the judges.
At the end of the deadline, all submissions are posted.
48 hours later judges come with the verdict.
This would ensure that there will be no gripes among people for "copying" etc., things.
Art is all about copying. Art builds on those who have come before. There is no way to make a rule that prevents copying. The world copies. We all copy ideas we think are good. All of us. Civilization would crumble if the ability to copy were denied. Babies would learn nothing, students would go nowhere, all would crumble.
Your task is to do it better than anyone else can. If you come up with an idea that is very easy for someone to copy, how great of an idea is it? If you come up with a great idea that is hard for people to copy, why would you worry about copying? If you are worried about who thought of the idea "first", then make sure you post your photo early before anyone else thinks of the idea.
If someone copies your idea, but does it twice as good as you did it, who is the better photographer? The one who can think of original ideas, but can't execute them, or the one who has no ideas but can turn one into a rockin' photo?
The best and most well rounded photographer would have both qualities, the ability to come up with "original" ideas, and the ability to turn those ideas into photos that a casual photographer could never touch with a ten foot zoom lens.
To win the Last Photographer Standing contest, you are going to have to be a great photographer. The qualifying rounds are the first sifter, the semifinals are a fine filter, and the Grand Finale is going to put great photographers head to head.
So use these qualifying rounds to train yourself, to learn, to grow. If you are weak in one area, use this time to strengthen that. If you can shoot circles around anyone else, but have no clue on coming up with an idea, start learning to think creatively, you are going to need it. If you can think anyone under the table, but can shoot a frame, then get cracking on developing your camera skills, composition, content, exposure.
Become a great photographer!
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
So my gripe has little to do with originality, but more to do with percieved originality.
Interesting... I am sure that if this was seen as a major issue by the staff at Dgrin then they could accept submissions for the contest but not put them on public display until after the end of the contest window... That way there could be similiar entries without worrying about originality.
If you go look at other contests, alot of them will have the scoring detailed down to a list of percentages, i.e. 10% Originality, 30% Technique, then the judges don't have to choose favorites, but instead ranking them on individual factors...
It may not be what it is right for our contests, but it is a thought...
You can't really want a system so automated, can you?
Photography is art and we're trying to promote that here. I want a humanistic approach to the judging. I want someone to "feel" my work as much as, if not more than, pick apart the list of technical factors in the photo.
When I look at a photo I can and have been moved by the emotion of a composition and subject matter even beyond the possibilties of blown highlights, etc, etc, etc, and as such will allow that emotion to flow through me as I judge images.
The day this boils down to 10% this, 20% that, 30% something else, is the day this is no longer a forum for art but a forum for mathmatical tasks.
Ok,
Thanks for the replies.
I agree with you guys, the better photographer will win.
So I will just concentrate on my idea and my photo, without worrying if anyone has done it before or if anybody will do it in future .
Its my entry, and I have to make it among the best.
You can't really want a system so automated, can you?
Photography is art and we're trying to promote that here. I want a humanistic approach to the judging. I want someone to "feel" my work as much as, if not more than, pick apart the list of technical factors in the photo.
The instructions I give to the judges that are picked is this:
The judging will take place on Monday Xxx XX. You would need to pick your top ten photos and rank them 1-10. The only judging guidlines are those you place on yourself. You have a great eye and I trust it.
You can't judge art robotically, it has to have the human touch. I have to be able to say, "this photo moves me, I can't say why, it just does." And all the other judges will use whatever criteria they want. Just as in real life, people all judge differently. And that is what we are getting here. It's all about people and art.
It most definitely is not about "fairness", artificial rules or restrictions to level the playing field, or any other tricks designed to promote mediocrity above greatness. In the end, we are after greatness, we are shooting for the Last Photographer Standing!
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
The instructions I give to the judges that are picked is this:
You can't judge art robotically, it has to have the human touch. I have to be able to say, "this photo moves me, I can't say why, it just does." And all the other judges will use whatever criteria they want. Just as in real life, people all judge differently. And that is what we are getting here. It's all about people and art.
It most definitely is not about "fairness", artificial rules or restrictions to level the playing field, or any other tricks designed to promote mediocrity above greatness. In the end, we are after greatness, we are shooting for the Last Photographer Standing!
Tanveer, I totally see your point. I had a bunch of ideas that I could not execute in time (for various reasons) and then as the deadline approached closer, I realized that most of them had been entered in some form or the other - but in order to put in my entry anyway, I went with what I could come up with in the limited time. To say the least, there was one other entry already there along similar lines and it was not my intention to *modify* or *better* that entry at all.
We each have our own styles (both with execution and interpretation) and in an open forum/contest such as this, it is bound to cause disappointments and create dissatisfaction for some. However, this forum (with all due respect to all involved) is not the 'be all and end all' of photography and we should find a way to learn and ultimately move ahead with our skills and aspirations.
Someone once told me that there is nothing *new* in art anymore. I think it's true. That said, it should not stop anyone from pushing the limits of their imagination and creativity. Personally, I am not a big fan of PS, but as Shay and the other moderators have said, PSing too takes effort and I have to grudgingly agree with them.
So, I guess my point is that we should all do what works best for us, push ourselves to do better and finally hope for the best. This contest is about the Last Photographer Standing and not about the 'Best'. I like to believe that over the next several weeks/months there will be surprising results and that the contest will evolve into something better understood and more respected and appreciated.
Sorry for the long discourse. I'm just sad that things have come to a head here. Truth, I see your point, but I saw a lot of this at photo.net a few years ago and it got pretty ugly at times. I hope the same does not happen here.
It surely won't, as the general mood here is adult, courteous photo talk. We don't mind dissenting opinions - in fact, we thrive on them! But we just can't, and won't, stand for childish behavior. In this case, it's been a repeated offense over and over and over again, and I finally just got tired of it.
Life's too short. There are too many good people here on Dgrin to have the place soiled like that.
Does photography feed your soul?
So ... this has been interesting. Truth, you are a great photographer but don't let it consume you.
You may find this post too personal or sentimental, but I mean it as "truth," for me at least.
I'm brand new to Dgrin and Smugmug but I'm not new to criticism or critique. I once took things more personally than I do now. It was inhibiting, stifling, and discouraging. Twenty plus years ago I was a young photographer "of some promise," or so I was told. It killed me creatively. My need "to be the best" drove me crazy because in the subjective there is always someone "better," whatever that means. I ended up telling myself "I wasn't good enough" and put my camera aside, for the most part, to pursue other things. I returned to it on occasion, for work as a journalist for instance, but there wasn't the joy in it I once had.
A successful and famous photographer recently told me, "you can't put all of your self worth into your photography." He switched careers mid-life to pursue his passion - not to become famous. I wish someone had taken me aside and told me that 20 years ago, although I probably wouldn't have understood or listened.
Last year, I burned out at 39. After working 80 or more hours a week for 10 years building my business, I said enough and sold it to let go and pursue what makes me happy, to what feeds my soul, and to return to an old friend - my camera. I haven't been this happy in some time. I don't take pictures of dead and dying people or tragedy anymore and, god help me, I've taken many. Two were friends who died in the line of duty. They haunt my dreams.
In the last 10 months I've "let go" a lot, and I've grown exponentially both personally and as a photographer (I like to think, anyway). I believe that as you grow as a person, so too do you grow as an artist.
Today, I don't enter contests to "be the best" or even really win. (Okay, that's not totally honest but it's my mantra and I'm sticking to it). I enter to learn, to be challenged, to open myself creatively to new ways of looking at the world. Isn't that what photography is all about? That's why this challenge is brilliant - it's about process and growth not the end.
My entry this time around was something I'd never tried. I was frustrated that it wasn't "smarter" conceptually so I did my best technically. I didn't "steal" an idea, frankly it was the most obvious choice. And if I used the great masters (Rembrandt, et al) as a model for my lighting, then am I a thief?
In the process, I learned a lot about lighting in a studio-style environment - techniques I do little. I also grabbed hold of some ideas I'll incorporate into future images yet unimagined.
If someone saw my post and thought, "I want to try that!," good on ya. Give it your own spin, explore your own vision, do it "better." I also learned a lot from the vision of others, and I thank them for their passion, time and fellowship.
Does photography feed your soul? Then you are a better person. Are you proud of your own vision? Did you learn something? Was it fun? Then that is enough.
To Shay and the judges; I think you guys picked some great images. I also think that the instructions to the judges were just about perfect, everyone needs to be free to chose what they like in art.
The only thing I would like to add is that I would like to see some of the judges comment on the pictures they chose. What was it about a particular image that you thought made it stand out? Although art is very personal, I always like to know what others see in an image.
I wouldn't want to put too much of a burden on the judges and I don't want to force them to comment on every image they judge, but maybe we could get some deep discussion on the images that make the semifinal and final rounds.
To Shay and the judges; I think you guys picked some great images. I also think that the instructions to the judges were just about perfect, everyone needs to be free to chose what they like in art.
The only thing I would like to add is that I would like to see some of the judges comment on the pictures they chose. What was it about a particular image that you thought made it stand out? Although art is very personal, I always like to know what others see in an image.
I wouldn't want to put too much of a burden on the judges and I don't want to force them to comment on every image they judge, but maybe we could get some deep discussion on the images that make the semifinal and final rounds.
--Aaron
Ahh, yes. This is coming. In some of the other instructions, I do say that if they are moved to comment on a photo(s), they are free to do so, but they have no obligation to do so. I did receive some comments, and will be posting them shortly...stay tuned :-)
Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
I suppose
the overall difficulty (speaking for myself, maybe others identify) is when a particualar shot is time and again supported over all others in a series. Gut feeling along with our individualistic eye says, "This is a great photograph" but the feedback is, "ah, it's ok". Then something you personally think is "ah, it's ok" is the one everyone raves about.
Simply put: I've always had a difficult time understanding why some think a photo is so wonderful and I see it as a snapshot yet others that are clearly excellent are discarded. That mystery is as alluding as , the stock market.
The sum of this enigma is you don't know what catches a viewer or not in a sense. As long as you've executed your goal it really is out of your hands. A prime example is that of Dave V's Dgrin photo of the year....can you believe it did not win the individual challenge? Guess we continue moving forward striving for the next best shot we personally can produce. I for one will keep trying because I don't believe any of my work is "bad" or not up to snuff.....no way. Don't let yourself think so either..work hard.....who knows...the planets and stars will be in perfect alignment with Venus, the judges will sit under a full moon and see things differently
Seriously though, do your best, have faith in your abilities, go shoot and have fun. I'll bet you'll get some great wall hangers out of the effort! :ivar
Way to go Andy. I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I also agree with David. Since photography began we are all copying somebody. I try to copy Yuri all the time. It isn't that I am trying to "steal" his stuff. It is that I think his (and others) photography is OUTSTANDING and I want to have my photos look like his, yours, our others. If someone copies my stuff (Lord help them!) and you come up with something better than mine then more power to you. That just means I will have to work harder to improve mine. Hope you get the message I am trying to convey.
P.S. Congratulations to all the WINNERS. Great work and I enjoyed them all.
I won a few challenges (a long time ago in another forum)
As "winner" I could choose the topic of the next challenge. I deliberately chose a very limited subject for two of the challenges.
must have been someone else
Posted by truth not long ago
========================================
Quitters never win...
Hey Flash, he really will show you the door. Trust me on this one pal. Don't give up on the challenges. They will make you a better photographer. I swear. You can't care about the judging. You can't care about winning. All that should matter is that the theme pushed you to produce an image you might not otherwise have been inclined to think about. It's tough to take a specific concept, them, emotion, action etc. and capture it with purpose in a given time span. That's the idea.
There are always many good entires that are not selected, like mine , again. :bash Every challenge is guest judged by the previous winner along with a dgrin mod so the judging standards are ambiguous and always changing. The top 10 are then voted on by the forum members which adds even more uncertainty to the eventual winner and the criterium on which the votes were based. What it all boils down to is that none of it matters so long as creating the image was a rewarding experience for the photographer. I know for me the challenges force me to pick up my camera during periods of of inactivity and that's reason enough for me to keep entering them.
================================================
i thought this stuff above was very cool (chilled, not steamy thinking.
I don't get the 180 degrees attitude change. did someone else post with your nickname?
say yes. come back. fun again
The best thing about a photo is the journey that brought you to it.
I didn't get around to my idea...my loss. Kudo's to those that did, in fact kudo's to everyone who submitted anything, cliche or not. Theme challenges will have like submissions, but that will make those outside the box shine even more.
What kills me is nobody here is forcing us to enter, or even be here. So why do some of us choose to bitch and moan...well there's the obvious, they didn't make the cut. If you don't like the rules, contest, judges, do the right thing, don't play. That way you don't lose, and the rest of us have a better chance of winning.
Honestly I wonder sometimes why dgrin even conutinues to support the growth of photography....the growth of each of us....when they get this continuous juvenile behavior. So I guess a big thank you goes out to everyone that is making the LPS contest possible.
Coming up with an entry you think is good enough should be victory enough...everything else is a bonus.
One would think getting picked as a judge would be reward enough.
They say you can't please everyone....and I guess that's the TRUTH.
We're all copying someone. There's not a photographer here that isn't copying another, building on what's been done before. That's the nature of art, for the most part. It's evolutionary. The true revolutions are few and far between. And if any of us stepped up and created a revolution in photography, well, then there'd be "no contest."
I agree! It's not the idea that wins, it's how the idea is artistically delivered. Congrats to all the winners of the first round though! I saw several of my favorites in the top ten! Kudos!!:ivar
Lynie
~Life is like photography. You use the negatives to develop.~
Actually my gripe is a little other way too.
I am thinking of an idea about #2. Somebody posts it. Now I will feel guilty about posting a similar photo, even though I am not copying. I will think that if I post the image I was thinking about earlier, everyone will think I am copying. If I havent seen the entries, this problem wont arise.
Case in point
"On the rocks".
I was thinking of putting in a golden drink on ice cubes, or maybe drop ice cubes into the drink and click at the moment, but when this entry came, I started working on another angle, though if I had posted a similar post, it would not really have been a copy!
There were some entries on the thread, and It strick me X copied Y. I made a judgement on X, just because Xs photo was posted lot after Y and it was very similar!
So my gripe has little to do with originality, but more to do with percieved originality.
When I started working on my shot (On the rocks), I knew the basic concept was a cliche before I began and I was expecting there to be lots of them in the competition. Really, what word more often follows "chilled" than "drink?" I was also fully expecting mulitiple tea kettles for much the same reason and in fact I took some shots of our tea kettle the night the theme was announced (I abandoned that idea when I concluded I was going to need to buy not only a new kettle, but a new stove to take the picture where I wanted to be).
From my point of view, taking the obivous path of the drink on ice was inviting the comparision to other similar shots in the competition. I went into it with my eyes open, fully expecting to be picked apart on details comparing my shot to several other similar ones and in anticipation I took the time to sweat the details. I was actually surprised to be left as much room as I had in my little corner of the idea spectrum.
To me the strangest part of art is that fact that I am completely unable to predict how other people will react to it. More often than not people buy prints from me and I sit there and think why on earth did they pick that one?
My favorite part of the challeges is the fact that I never can tell what grabs people but I enjoy the surprise. I also find that it is very much a "challenge" since I for one have never entered anything that I was happy with. I always end up settling.
I actually have a little guilt about entering the contest now that the stakes are higher. Knowing my own limitations in photography I feel like the semi-finalist slots should go to someone who has a better chance to go all the way. It is like trying out for the olympic team when I know I would represent the sport poorly.
Congrats to all the folks for awesome photos and particularly the top 10 olympians!
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We're all copying someone. There's not a photographer here that isn't copying another, building on what's been done before. That's the nature of art, for the most part. It's evolutionary. The true revolutions are few and far between. And if any of us stepped up and created a revolution in photography, well, then there'd be "no contest."
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Now I gotta prepare for LPS #2 and hope for the best!
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I do not at all think your idea of submissions being "hidden" until the deadline is a bad one (though I'm not sure necessary). I'm also intimately familiar with the bulletin board software and I know there's actually a hack/mod out there (or there used to be) that makes it so you can't see the replies to a post until you actually reply yourself, which might also somewhat accomplish the same goal (you wouldn't see submissions until you yourself had already entered).
That said, being the type I am, I also know that there are NO original ideas (or very few). Two people can very innocently have the same idea, that they THINK is original, without either of them intentionally copying the other. I don't think it's always fair to assume that one person has out-and-out copied another's idea just because their entry came in one or two days later and looks similar. There are only so many ways to skin a cat.
I also think it's important to be realistic. I love the idea of discussion about the photos, as to me that's part of the point... but this IS a contest. So if you are hoping that the people you are competiting against are ALL going to encourage you to put up a masterpiece, you're wrong.
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
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I am thinking of an idea about #2. Somebody posts it. Now I will feel guilty about posting a similar photo, even though I am not copying. I will think that if I post the image I was thinking about earlier, everyone will think I am copying. If I havent seen the entries, this problem wont arise.
Case in point
"On the rocks".
I was thinking of putting in a golden drink on ice cubes, or maybe drop ice cubes into the drink and click at the moment, but when this entry came, I started working on another angle, though if I had posted a similar post, it would not really have been a copy!
There were some entries on the thread, and It strick me X copied Y. I made a judgement on X, just because Xs photo was posted lot after Y and it was very similar!
So my gripe has little to do with originality, but more to do with percieved originality.
FB:https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Site :http://www.tanveer.in
Blog :http://tsk1979.livejournal.com
Art is all about copying. Art builds on those who have come before. There is no way to make a rule that prevents copying. The world copies. We all copy ideas we think are good. All of us. Civilization would crumble if the ability to copy were denied. Babies would learn nothing, students would go nowhere, all would crumble.
Your task is to do it better than anyone else can. If you come up with an idea that is very easy for someone to copy, how great of an idea is it? If you come up with a great idea that is hard for people to copy, why would you worry about copying? If you are worried about who thought of the idea "first", then make sure you post your photo early before anyone else thinks of the idea.
If someone copies your idea, but does it twice as good as you did it, who is the better photographer? The one who can think of original ideas, but can't execute them, or the one who has no ideas but can turn one into a rockin' photo?
The best and most well rounded photographer would have both qualities, the ability to come up with "original" ideas, and the ability to turn those ideas into photos that a casual photographer could never touch with a ten foot zoom lens.
To win the Last Photographer Standing contest, you are going to have to be a great photographer. The qualifying rounds are the first sifter, the semifinals are a fine filter, and the Grand Finale is going to put great photographers head to head.
So use these qualifying rounds to train yourself, to learn, to grow. If you are weak in one area, use this time to strengthen that. If you can shoot circles around anyone else, but have no clue on coming up with an idea, start learning to think creatively, you are going to need it. If you can think anyone under the table, but can shoot a frame, then get cracking on developing your camera skills, composition, content, exposure.
Become a great photographer!
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
Interesting... I am sure that if this was seen as a major issue by the staff at Dgrin then they could accept submissions for the contest but not put them on public display until after the end of the contest window... That way there could be similiar entries without worrying about originality.
Lee
You can't really want a system so automated, can you?
Photography is art and we're trying to promote that here. I want a humanistic approach to the judging. I want someone to "feel" my work as much as, if not more than, pick apart the list of technical factors in the photo.
When I look at a photo I can and have been moved by the emotion of a composition and subject matter even beyond the possibilties of blown highlights, etc, etc, etc, and as such will allow that emotion to flow through me as I judge images.
The day this boils down to 10% this, 20% that, 30% something else, is the day this is no longer a forum for art but a forum for mathmatical tasks.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Thanks for the replies.
I agree with you guys, the better photographer will win.
So I will just concentrate on my idea and my photo, without worrying if anyone has done it before or if anybody will do it in future
Its my entry, and I have to make it among the best.
And.. Congrats to the winners
FB:https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Site :http://www.tanveer.in
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The instructions I give to the judges that are picked is this:
You can't judge art robotically, it has to have the human touch. I have to be able to say, "this photo moves me, I can't say why, it just does." And all the other judges will use whatever criteria they want. Just as in real life, people all judge differently. And that is what we are getting here. It's all about people and art.
It most definitely is not about "fairness", artificial rules or restrictions to level the playing field, or any other tricks designed to promote mediocrity above greatness. In the end, we are after greatness, we are shooting for the Last Photographer Standing!
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
in other words... you agree with me?
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Indubitably
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
In other words.....yes?
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
We each have our own styles (both with execution and interpretation) and in an open forum/contest such as this, it is bound to cause disappointments and create dissatisfaction for some. However, this forum (with all due respect to all involved) is not the 'be all and end all' of photography and we should find a way to learn and ultimately move ahead with our skills and aspirations.
Someone once told me that there is nothing *new* in art anymore. I think it's true. That said, it should not stop anyone from pushing the limits of their imagination and creativity. Personally, I am not a big fan of PS, but as Shay and the other moderators have said, PSing too takes effort and I have to grudgingly agree with them.
So, I guess my point is that we should all do what works best for us, push ourselves to do better and finally hope for the best. This contest is about the Last Photographer Standing and not about the 'Best'. I like to believe that over the next several weeks/months there will be surprising results and that the contest will evolve into something better understood and more respected and appreciated.
Sorry for the long discourse. I'm just sad that things have come to a head here. Truth, I see your point, but I saw a lot of this at photo.net a few years ago and it got pretty ugly at times. I hope the same does not happen here.
Cheers, Sunita
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
Hi Sunita!
It surely won't, as the general mood here is adult, courteous photo talk. We don't mind dissenting opinions - in fact, we thrive on them! But we just can't, and won't, stand for childish behavior. In this case, it's been a repeated offense over and over and over again, and I finally just got tired of it.
Life's too short. There are too many good people here on Dgrin to have the place soiled like that.
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So ... this has been interesting. Truth, you are a great photographer but don't let it consume you.
You may find this post too personal or sentimental, but I mean it as "truth," for me at least.
I'm brand new to Dgrin and Smugmug but I'm not new to criticism or critique. I once took things more personally than I do now. It was inhibiting, stifling, and discouraging. Twenty plus years ago I was a young photographer "of some promise," or so I was told. It killed me creatively. My need "to be the best" drove me crazy because in the subjective there is always someone "better," whatever that means. I ended up telling myself "I wasn't good enough" and put my camera aside, for the most part, to pursue other things. I returned to it on occasion, for work as a journalist for instance, but there wasn't the joy in it I once had.
A successful and famous photographer recently told me, "you can't put all of your self worth into your photography." He switched careers mid-life to pursue his passion - not to become famous. I wish someone had taken me aside and told me that 20 years ago, although I probably wouldn't have understood or listened.
Last year, I burned out at 39. After working 80 or more hours a week for 10 years building my business, I said enough and sold it to let go and pursue what makes me happy, to what feeds my soul, and to return to an old friend - my camera. I haven't been this happy in some time. I don't take pictures of dead and dying people or tragedy anymore and, god help me, I've taken many. Two were friends who died in the line of duty. They haunt my dreams.
In the last 10 months I've "let go" a lot, and I've grown exponentially both personally and as a photographer (I like to think, anyway). I believe that as you grow as a person, so too do you grow as an artist.
Today, I don't enter contests to "be the best" or even really win. (Okay, that's not totally honest but it's my mantra and I'm sticking to it). I enter to learn, to be challenged, to open myself creatively to new ways of looking at the world. Isn't that what photography is all about? That's why this challenge is brilliant - it's about process and growth not the end.
My entry this time around was something I'd never tried. I was frustrated that it wasn't "smarter" conceptually so I did my best technically. I didn't "steal" an idea, frankly it was the most obvious choice. And if I used the great masters (Rembrandt, et al) as a model for my lighting, then am I a thief?
In the process, I learned a lot about lighting in a studio-style environment - techniques I do little. I also grabbed hold of some ideas I'll incorporate into future images yet unimagined.
If someone saw my post and thought, "I want to try that!," good on ya. Give it your own spin, explore your own vision, do it "better." I also learned a lot from the vision of others, and I thank them for their passion, time and fellowship.
Does photography feed your soul? Then you are a better person. Are you proud of your own vision? Did you learn something? Was it fun? Then that is enough.
Peace
The only thing I would like to add is that I would like to see some of the judges comment on the pictures they chose. What was it about a particular image that you thought made it stand out? Although art is very personal, I always like to know what others see in an image.
I wouldn't want to put too much of a burden on the judges and I don't want to force them to comment on every image they judge, but maybe we could get some deep discussion on the images that make the semifinal and final rounds.
--Aaron
http://mrbook2.smugmug.com
Nikon D200, usually with 18-200VR or 50mm f/1.8D
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Well said, seastack.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Ahh, yes. This is coming. In some of the other instructions, I do say that if they are moved to comment on a photo(s), they are free to do so, but they have no obligation to do so. I did receive some comments, and will be posting them shortly...stay tuned :-)
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
the overall difficulty (speaking for myself, maybe others identify) is when a particualar shot is time and again supported over all others in a series. Gut feeling along with our individualistic eye says, "This is a great photograph" but the feedback is, "ah, it's ok". Then something you personally think is "ah, it's ok" is the one everyone raves about.
Simply put: I've always had a difficult time understanding why some think a photo is so wonderful and I see it as a snapshot yet others that are clearly excellent are discarded. That mystery is as alluding as , the stock market.
The sum of this enigma is you don't know what catches a viewer or not in a sense. As long as you've executed your goal it really is out of your hands. A prime example is that of Dave V's Dgrin photo of the year....can you believe it did not win the individual challenge? Guess we continue moving forward striving for the next best shot we personally can produce. I for one will keep trying because I don't believe any of my work is "bad" or not up to snuff.....no way. Don't let yourself think so either..work hard.....who knows...the planets and stars will be in perfect alignment with Venus, the judges will sit under a full moon and see things differently
Seriously though, do your best, have faith in your abilities, go shoot and have fun. I'll bet you'll get some great wall hangers out of the effort! :ivar
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Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
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P.S. Congratulations to all the WINNERS. Great work and I enjoyed them all.
As "winner" I could choose the topic of the next challenge. I deliberately chose a very limited subject for two of the challenges.
The results were amazing!
Knives, forks, spoons
http://www.pbase.com/stfchallenge/challenge_25_eligible
Trees
http://www.pbase.com/stfchallenge/challenge_19_eligible
Bill R chose a coke can...
http://www.pbase.com/stfchallenge/challenge_12_eligible
With the same subject there wasn't really any copying, but the photographer who thought outside the box or beyond the norm was the winner.
I think that's the point Shay is trying to make here :-)
http://www.twitter.com/deegolden
Posted by truth not long ago
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Quitters never win...
Hey Flash, he really will show you the door. Trust me on this one pal. Don't give up on the challenges. They will make you a better photographer. I swear. You can't care about the judging. You can't care about winning. All that should matter is that the theme pushed you to produce an image you might not otherwise have been inclined to think about. It's tough to take a specific concept, them, emotion, action etc. and capture it with purpose in a given time span. That's the idea.
There are always many good entires that are not selected, like mine
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i thought this stuff above was very cool (chilled, not steamy
I don't get the 180 degrees attitude change. did someone else post with your nickname?
say yes. come back. fun again
But for the judges, Why have 2 of essentially the same photo/idea? That is the steam coming from the kettle.
There were a number of other photos that were IMO just as good with much better creativity.
Should've picked just one of the standard, cliche kettle pics but not both.
Perhaps there should be a voting system similar to DPChallenge where, the "members" vote and no one knows who the photog is.
Just a thought.
Gene
What kills me is nobody here is forcing us to enter, or even be here. So why do some of us choose to bitch and moan...well there's the obvious, they didn't make the cut. If you don't like the rules, contest, judges, do the right thing, don't play. That way you don't lose, and the rest of us have a better chance of winning.
Honestly I wonder sometimes why dgrin even conutinues to support the growth of photography....the growth of each of us....when they get this continuous juvenile behavior. So I guess a big thank you goes out to everyone that is making the LPS contest possible.
Coming up with an entry you think is good enough should be victory enough...everything else is a bonus.
One would think getting picked as a judge would be reward enough.
They say you can't please everyone....and I guess that's the TRUTH.
I agree! It's not the idea that wins, it's how the idea is artistically delivered. Congrats to all the winners of the first round though! I saw several of my favorites in the top ten! Kudos!!:ivar
jill
When I started working on my shot (On the rocks), I knew the basic concept was a cliche before I began and I was expecting there to be lots of them in the competition. Really, what word more often follows "chilled" than "drink?" I was also fully expecting mulitiple tea kettles for much the same reason and in fact I took some shots of our tea kettle the night the theme was announced (I abandoned that idea when I concluded I was going to need to buy not only a new kettle, but a new stove to take the picture where I wanted to be).
From my point of view, taking the obivous path of the drink on ice was inviting the comparision to other similar shots in the competition. I went into it with my eyes open, fully expecting to be picked apart on details comparing my shot to several other similar ones and in anticipation I took the time to sweat the details. I was actually surprised to be left as much room as I had in my little corner of the idea spectrum.
My favorite part of the challeges is the fact that I never can tell what grabs people but I enjoy the surprise. I also find that it is very much a "challenge" since I for one have never entered anything that I was happy with. I always end up settling.
I actually have a little guilt about entering the contest now that the stakes are higher. Knowing my own limitations in photography I feel like the semi-finalist slots should go to someone who has a better chance to go all the way. It is like trying out for the olympic team when I know I would represent the sport poorly.
Congrats to all the folks for awesome photos and particularly the top 10 olympians!
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