Confused about what the judges are looking for......

urbanaries

Shay Stephens wrote:

You are frustrated because there is no clear criteria on what it takes to win. That is good. I don't want there to be a clear criteria to win. I am trying to inject novelty, surprise, and the unexpected into the contest. Keeping you a little off balance will hopefully cause you to reach beyond yourself to grab on to something new to steady yourself.

You think you may want "x+y=z and I will win", but do you know how boring that is in reality? Knowing ahead of time what will win and how? No, we are going to take a different road than that.

And secondarily, I am also trying to make this contest reflect in a way the business world of photography. I want this experience to count for something more at the end of the day, so a participant, after a year of "playing" stands a better chance of making it if they decide to go pro. They will have learned a few valuable things along the way that may give them a head start.

I don't think anyone's crying foul, or looking for a formula to win here. That's a bit condescending. Simply asking whether you guys are consistently looking for content over technique in general, or vice versa, is a valid question.

You have to admit it's odd that such a a complex contest with a defined prize (why don't you guys just say "a bunch of money?"), and a flow chart that rivals the NCAA tournament has such an oversimplification of the measurement of success.

"Be a great photographer!"

Okay....

Shay Stephens

urbanaries wrote:

I don't think anyone's crying foul, or looking for a formula to win here. That's a bit condescending. Simply asking whether you guys are consistently looking for content over technique in general, or vice versa, is a valid question.

You have to admit it's odd that such a a complex contest with a defined prize (why don't you guys just say "a bunch of money?"), and a flow chart that rivals the NCAA tournament has such an oversimplification of the measurement of success.

"Be a great photographer!"

Okay....

I am not trying to be condescending, sorry if it came across that way. The point I am trying to make is that no, there is no consistant criteria for the judging. Besides, when you get to the semifinal that is going to be judged by the public, what concrete criteria do you think they will use, hmm?

When you get hired by Betties Beany Buggies, what concrete criteria is she going to have? Or the next job you get with Filbert's MegaJump Super Center? Or the next one, or the next one? There simply isn't anything there for you to lean on to make your job easier. You have to learn to find and keep your own balance and do your best to satisfy your current client, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one...

Shay Stephens

As far as the other judges, I try to pick judges from a diverse background. Yes, I look for skill and a great eye, but I also keep an open mind for including troublemakers, people who think quirky, edgy, classic, technical, people who mostly do landscapes, or portraits, or bugs, or, whatever. So if anyone wants to try and "profile" an average judge, it isn't going to work. The only thing that may help is to study the judges that are announced and see what they do and what their tastes may be.

Each qualifying round is going to feel and work different when it comes to the judging. It will be like working an assignment for a new client every two weeks. If you work it right, there is a payday at the end of each semifinal, and then there is always the Grand Finale too

Tentacion

Shay Stephens wrote:

As far as the other judges, I try to pick judges from a diverse background. Yes, I look for skill and a great eye, but I also keep an open mind for including troublemakers, people who think quirky, edgy, classic, technical, people who mostly do landscapes, or portraits, or bugs, or, whatever. So if anyone wants to try and "profile" an average judge, it isn't going to work. The only thing that may help is to study the judges that are announced and see what they do and what their tastes may be.

Each qualifying round is going to feel and work different when it comes to the judging. It will be like working an assignment for a new client every two weeks. If you work it right, there is a payday at the end of each semifinal, and then there is always the Grand Finale too

Ooooooooo I love BIG Paydays. ....So obviously, I feel that Shay is saying it is all about LEVELS and CURVES.... You have a level playing ground knowing your client (Theme of qualifying round), and the curve is to make that client want to hire you all the time because of your demonstrated talent towards what they require (Theme of competion)...SO ...I guess a Little Eye Research is involved, like taking a peek at the judges sites/pics to see just exactly our investors are about..:D

This has been one heck of a thread....I loved it....SO many varied opinions....

I say this ........I'll be in the next round as long as the Good Lord wills and creeks don't rise...Will You??,....Even if you don't know what the judges want?

Life is about chances and Good Luck!!

urbanaries

Shay Stephens wrote:

Besides, when you get to the semifinal that is going to be judged by the public, what concrete criteria do you think they will use, hmm?

Fair enough. I hadn't memorized the flow chart that far...thanks for reminding me!

Shay Stephens wrote:

When you get hired by Betties Beany Buggies, what concrete criteria is she going to have? Or the next job you get with Filbert's MegaJump Super Center? Or the next one, or the next one? There simply isn't anything there for you to lean on to make your job easier...

This is an interesting discussion sub-topic.....outside of the contest at hand. I've been on both sides of the art-for-hire bench, as a marketing director/client and a weekend warrior/hired gun. And I definitely agree there is a great deal of subjectivity....but there is always expectations setting involved. From as loosely defined as "here's our ad campaign strategy" to as specific as "please capture the funny face Joey makes when he scrunches his nose up." Of course we have no control over whether they articulate them properly, or change direction midstream, but at least the conversation took place.

urbanaries

Tentacion wrote:

it is all about LEVELS and CURVES.... You have a level playing ground knowing your client (Theme of qualifying round), and the curve is to make that client want to hire you all the time because of your demonstrated talent towards what they require (Theme of competion)

wow, that was a great metaphor!

i think I get it now.

Shay Stephens

urbanaries wrote:

This is an interesting discussion sub-topic.....outside of the contest at hand. I've been on both sides of the art-for-hire bench, as a marketing director/client and a weekend warrior/hired gun. And I definitely agree there is a great deal of subjectivity....but there is always expectations setting involved. From as loosely defined as "here's our ad campaign strategy" to as specific as "please capture the funny face Joey makes when he scrunches his nose up." Of course we have no control over whether they articulate them properly, or change direction midstream, but at least the conversation took place.

If you can get the job done in the contest with a minumum of input, think how much easier it will be with a real paying client that gives you a list of criteria to meet? Do you think you will pay attention to such input? It may even seem like a walk in the park in comparison to what you are used to in the contest. And the client will marvel at your ability to to take what you have go with it and knock their socks off without "having to have your hand held" like the last lame photographer they had to deal with

It's like what Andy said in introducing the contest...think bigger!

urbanaries

Shay Stephens wrote:

If you can get the job done in the contest with a minumum of input, think how much easier it will be with a real paying client that gives you a list of criteria to meet? Do you think you will pay attention to such input? It may even seem like a walk in the park in comparison to what you are used to in the contest. And the client will marvel at your ability to to take what you have go with it and knock their socks off without "having to have your hand held" like the last lame photographer they had to deal with

It's like what Andy said in introducing the contest...think bigger!

I do admire your idealism, Shay!

Nikolai

My two centavos
My approach to the LPS is simple.

Dgrin has provided a unique opportunity to stretch your photographic abilities in totally reasonable two weeks intervals in a friendly community, spiced up by some - potential - rewards. I'm going to use this opportunity to come out with 20x2=40 images I can be proud of. Even if I don't make any of the prequals (well, I made one already, so it's kinda figure of speech, but I'm speaking from the heart) I shall end up with 40(!) good images that would go directly to my portfolio.
AA said something to the extent of that getting 12 good images per year is a great achievement. Here you can get 40! :-)

The fact that I have already sold two copies of one of my LPS entries and the customer just notified me that she would like to have another one only proves the point that you need to do it mostly for yourself - everything else will come along:-)

FWIW

Shay Stephens

urbanaries wrote:

I do admire your idealism, Shay!

Thank you! I am of the belief that most great things that have been accomplished in this world have been the result of the vision of a single person. Win or loose, that is what I am working for here, great things

DRabbit

urbanaries wrote:

This is an interesting discussion sub-topic.....outside of the contest at hand. I've been on both sides of the art-for-hire bench, as a marketing director/client and a weekend warrior/hired gun. And I definitely agree there is a great deal of subjectivity....but there is always expectations setting involved. From as loosely defined as "here's our ad campaign strategy" to as specific as "please capture the funny face Joey makes when he scrunches his nose up." Of course we have no control over whether they articulate them properly, or change direction midstream, but at least the conversation took place.

I am also an Art Director full time, and freelance/subcontrating hired-gun so I definitely know what you're saying.

Where I disagree is that I ALWAYS feel I do my best work with LESS direction, not more.

claudermilk

Nikolai wrote:

My approach to the LPS is simple.

Dgrin has provided a unique opportunity to stretch your photographic abilities in totally reasonable two weeks intervals in a friendly community, spiced up by some - potential - rewards. I'm going to use this opportunity to come out with 20x2=40 images I can be proud of. Even if I don't make any of the prequals (well, I made one already, so it's kinda figure of speech, but I'm speaking from the heart) I shall end up with 40(!) good images that would go directly to my portfolio.
AA said something to the extent of that getting 12 good images per year is a great achievement. Here you can get 40! :-)

The fact that I have already sold two copies of one of my LPS entries and the customer just notified me that she would like to have another one only proves the point that you need to do it mostly for yourself - everything else will come along:-)

FWIW

Good philosophy. You also show another way LPS participants can win: print sales; so you've won twice already! There's MORE incentive to participate (now if I can only think of something for #2...it's a toughie).