Whibal at Parties and Events. Help

DavidS

Does anyone use the Whibal for parties or events? If so how do you use it? I have not figured out a practical way to do so. When I shoot a party or event the shots are mostly candid, flash is used, they are from varying distances and often under a variety of lighting conditions. According to Michael Tapes, when using flash, if the distance changes and obviously if the light source changes you need to take another whibal shot. Unless I'm missing something it seems like a separate whibal shot is needed for every shot you take, which is impractical. I currently shoot raw and look for a neutral gray spot in the scene, which is not always possible, and set the white balance during processing. I would love to use my whibal though. Thanks.

claudermilk

I would think the flash color would override the ambient lighting, so some middle-ground WhiBal shot should get you close enough.

For the events I shoot, fortunately lighting stays fairly constant, so I wait for it to get set, then take my WhiBal shot & set custom WB in camera based on that. At the very least, it's real close so WB adjustments in RAW conversion are minor and don't cause any radical color shifts.

Manfr3d

Hi david.

I shoot alot of concerts and sometimes parties with
quick changeing light. The best thing you can do is
shoot RAW and leave your camera in AWB (even in jpg).
If you shoot flash, you a) could color correct your flash (if
lighting stays constant enough) and b) should WB
for the flash' color temperature (its the only light
temerature you defenitly know).

This way you'll get good colors on everything you click.

Another tip is to drag the shutter, meaning to leave
it open for about 1/10ts of a second (set flash sync
to automatic rather than fixed to 1/250s, be in Shutter
priority mode for this). The effect will be that you get
the ppl properly exposed with your flash (WB) and gather
additional colored light from the background in the image.

Its a simple way to make images spark with colors, and
your subject look properly exposed with correct colors.

DavidS

Thanks guys I really appreciate your taking the time to help out. It sounds like both of you are saying my flash should be exposing the subject and setting my whitebalance for the flash (in my case taking a whibal shot) should be close enough. I was hoping someone would say taking a few whibal shots, rather than one for each shot, would be close enough. It should be better than what I am doing now, even if it's not perfect. I have not tried that, because Michael Tapes insists you must take a new whibal shot everytime your camera to subject distance changes, when using flash, even under the same light, because the ratio of flash to ambient light changes. What I hear you saying, if I understand correctly, is that it doesn't change enough to make a real difference. Thanks I will give it a try.

Manfr3d

DavidS wrote:

Thanks guys I really appreciate your taking the time to help out. It sounds like both of you are saying my flash should be exposing the subject and setting my whitebalance for the flash (in my case taking a whibal shot) should be close enough. I was hoping someone would say taking a few whibal shots, rather than one for each shot, would be close enough. It should be better than what I am doing now, even if it's not perfect. I have not tried that, because Michael Tapes insists you must take a new whibal shot everytime your camera to subject distance changes, when using flash, even under the same light, because the ratio of flash to ambient light changes. What I hear you saying, if I understand correctly, is that it doesn't change enough to make a real difference. Thanks I will give it a try.

If you fire with flash as the main light you light will not change. You can set
your camera simply to flash wb, that should do the job.

DavidS

Manfr3d wrote:

If you fire with flash as the main light you light will not change. You can set
your camera simply to flash wb, that should do the job.

I thought some more about what I shoot and realized that ambient light usually plays a pretty strong role. I purposefully shoot at slow shutter speeds and fairly wide aperatures to open up the ambient light as much as possible. I do underexpose the ambient light by about 2 stops though so the flash will freeze any subject movement. I guess that means my subject is lit primarily by the flash and the background by ambient light. I will give your suggestion a try. I can do that in post processing, I believe, since I am shooting raw.

DavidS

DavidS wrote:

I thought some more about what I shoot and realized that ambient light usually plays a pretty strong role. I purposefully shoot at slow shutter speeds and fairly wide aperatures to open up the ambient light as much as possible. I do underexpose the ambient light by about 2 stops though so the flash will freeze any subject movement. I guess that means my subject is lit primarily by the flash and the background by ambient light. I will give your suggestion a try. I can do that in post processing, I believe, since I am shooting raw.

I tried using the flash preset on various pictures from a number of shoots. When compared with using the whitebalance "eyedropper" on a neutral gray area in the scene in the same light as the subject, they where coming out at least 1000k too yellow. It appears that the ambient light is playing a pretty strong role in these shots. I think taking a few whibal shots in the various lighting conditions (even if the camera to subject distances are not exact) may be my best bet. I will at least give it a try.

Scott_Quier

DavidS wrote:

I thought some more about what I shoot and realized that ambient light usually plays a pretty strong role. I purposefully shoot at slow shutter speeds and fairly wide aperatures to open up the ambient light as much as possible. I do underexpose the ambient light by about 2 stops though so the flash will freeze any subject movement. I guess that means my subject is lit primarily by the flash and the background by ambient light. I will give your suggestion a try. I can do that in post processing, I believe, since I am shooting raw.

This being the case, it might be a good idea to put a gel over your flash so it's light closely matches that of the ambient. Then take a WB shot for PP reference. Shoot in RAW and do the color temperature correction in PP. Makes life soooo much easier.

In addition, if you have anything in your shot that is some neutral color (white, gray, black) and not blown/underexposed, you have yourself an automatic WB reference. At the very worst, it'll get you really close and you and fudge around with the temperature and tint controls a touch to get the WB spot on. This last has saved my bacon any number of times.

DavidS

Scott_Quier wrote:

This being the case, it might be a good idea to put a gel over your flash so it's light closely matches that of the ambient. Then take a WB shot for PP reference. Shoot in RAW and do the color temperature correction in PP. Makes life soooo much easier.

In addition, if you have anything in your shot that is some neutral color (white, gray, black) and not blown/underexposed, you have yourself an automatic WB reference. At the very worst, it'll get you really close and you and fudge around with the temperature and tint controls a touch to get the WB spot on. This last has saved my bacon any number of times.

Thanks for the tips Scott. I am using the Lightsphere by Gary Fong. I heard he has an amber dome so I went to his website to check it out. Here is a quote from his website. "[FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So putting the amberdome on, and setting the camera's white balance to "TUNGSTEN" evens out the flash with the ambient light in longer exposure situations, giving a more balanced look." I may get one and try it out.

I am currently shooting raw and using neutral areas to fix the whitebalance in PP. That works well a lot of the time, but some shots do not have a neutral area. That's where the Whibal would help.

Thanks again for your tips. A appreciate your taking the time to comment.
[/FONT][/FONT]

Scott_Quier

DavidS wrote:

Thanks for the tips Scott. I am using the Lightsphere by Gary Fong. I heard he has an amber dome so I went to his website to check it out. Here is a quote from his website.

So putting the amberdome on, and setting the camera's white balance to TUNGSTEN evens out the flash with the ambient light in longer exposure situations, giving a more balanced look.

I may get one and try it out.

A cheaper alternative to another GF item (I have the LS as well and like, this isn't a slam on his product) is to order and use the following

For balancing in flourecent light situations:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=166308&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

For balancing in tungsten light situations:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=166181&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

These are $6.50 for a 20"x24" sheet. Cut rectangles from them and afix them to your flash unit. Then, if you wish, you may then also attach your LightSphere.

DavidS wrote:

I am currently shooting raw and using neutral areas to fix the whitebalance in PP. That works well a lot of the time, but some shots do not have a neutral area. That's where the Whibal would help.

Your'e right there. Sometimes there's nothing in the shot that can be used.

DavidS

Scott_Quier wrote:

A cheaper alternative to another GF item (I have the LS as well and like, this isn't a slam on his product) is to order and use the following

For balancing in flourecent light situations:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=166308&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

For balancing in tungsten light situations:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=166181&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

These are $6.50 for a 20"x24" sheet. Cut rectangles from them and afix them to your flash unit. Then, if you wish, you may then also attach your LightSphere.


/quote]

Thanks Scott. I will try that. It's a lot less than the amber dome solution. The amber dome is only $20.00, but they say you should use it with the cloudy Lightsphere. I have the clear one, so that would be another $50.00. I'm glad it can be used with the Lightspere. That is a priority. I'm pleased with the results I'm getting from it.

LiquidAir

I'd also get CTS, 1/2 CTS and 1/2 CTO filters:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1329&A=details&Q=&sku=44225&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I find that the CTO filter often has more magenta that tungsten lighting. I end up balancing out the yellow-blue, but still end up with green-magenta mismatch in lighting. That gives me the horrible choice of red faces or green backgrounds. CTS has less magenta and is often a better match for house lighting.

The 1/2 CTS and 1/2 CTO filters are handy in situations where you can't get a good match on the magenta-green balance. Under correcting the flash leaves enough yellow in the shadows to somewhat disguise a green-magenta mismatch. I find yellow shadows preferable to either magenta or green ones.

DavidS

LiquidAir wrote:

I'd also get CTS, 1/2 CTS and 1/2 CTO filters:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1329&A=details&Q=&sku=44225&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I find that the CTO filter often has more magenta that tungsten lighting. I end up balancing out the yellow-blue, but still end up with green-magenta mismatch in lighting. That gives me the horrible choice of red faces or green backgrounds. CTS has less magenta and is often a better match for house lighting.

The 1/2 CTS and 1/2 CTO filters are handy in situations where you can't get a good match on the magenta-green balance. Under correcting the flash leaves enough yellow in the shadows to somewhat disguise a green-magenta mismatch. I find yellow shadows preferable to either magenta or green ones.

Wow. A lot of choices. It looks like I will have to experiment.