Clean Backgrounds...

wmstumme

Yesterday was a very wierd day. At the scheduled game time, it was sunny and warm and just perfect--but the ref's were late. By the time the game got started, it had clouded over and we had rain. At game's end, the sky's were clear again and bright sun.

Between packing my camera away each time the rain came out (I don't have anything to cover it during use) I didn't get too many shots. But I did get a chance to take a few shots where I was really trying to concentrate on getting faces and "clean backgrounds."

Really interested in what you folks think. Appreciate any comments/advice...

Thanks

Will









The coach:



Thanks for looking...

mercphoto

wmstumme wrote:

Between packing my camera away each time the rain came out (I don't have anything to cover it during use) I didn't get too many shots. But I did get a chance to take a few shots where I was really trying to concentrate on getting faces and "clean backgrounds."

Really interested in what you folks think. Appreciate any comments/advice...

That one is either cropped too tight or you need to shoot portrait. For people-sports you probably want to shoot portrait most the time anyway.

Being clouded over can be of immense help as long as you have enough light to shoot. Problems with shadows on faces disappear on cloudy days. Your backgrounds look pretty decent. You'll never get them 100% clean but you can have them out-of-focus, as most of yours are. And a background can help give context as to where the participant is. And they often like that.

The real key is going to be what your customers like, not what you like or what other photographers like. I learned with motocross photography that the shots that sell are often the shots that photographers would find lots of faults with, and the ones photographers love never get sold.

wmstumme

mercphoto wrote:

That one is either cropped too tight or you need to shoot portrait. For people-sports you probably want to shoot portrait most the time anyway.

....

The real key is going to be what your customers like, not what you like or what other photographers like. I learned with motocross photography that the shots that sell are often the shots that photographers would find lots of faults with, and the ones photographers love never get sold.

Wow--quick reply. Thanks for the words.

With exception of the 4th photo, none were cropped at all--and the 4th one was cropped only a touch to get a distraction off the edge of the photo. I was using a Sigma "bigma" on a monopod--so switching from landscape to portrait takes me a second to re-arrange. I actually had started the day with several shots in protrait--including a series on the starting goalie (that was the second string goalie in the first shot above.) However, she never turned in my direction. In tThe best one I got of her, her head was turned and the ball went in the goal. (see below).



Your comments are dead on about the shots that parents love versus those other photogs love. Just trying to make sure my shots are clearly different (i hope better) than what snaps parents are going to come away with with their point and shoots...

wxwax

I think you did a super job on the backgrounds. I, too, think portrait orientation would work better. But I know how hard it can be to keep them in frame - not a lot of room to work with.

I like this one a lot.



I'm curious what drives sales. It it simply someone seeing themselves/their child in an image, and buying it regardless of the quality? Or are there qualitative issues too?

johng

wxwax wrote:

I'm curious what drives sales. It it simply someone seeing themselves/their child in an image, and buying it regardless of the quality? Or are there qualitative issues too?

For speculative sales - i.e. not contracted
60% is marketing
20% is good target audience / pricing (they have to be an audience willing to pay for the product - think disposable income and the product has to be priced right)
10% is recognizable kid with a great expression - faces sell
10% is quality

By the way think I put quality too low on the list? The big money is in the staged, posed shots taken by studio photog at the beginning of the year with the kid standing with the bat or glove in some posed position. Year after year parents buy that stuff - why? Because their kid is plainly visible and has a smile on their face.

Just my opinion

slapshot

wmstumme wrote:

I was using a Sigma "bigma" on a monopod--quote]

How do you like the Bigma for sports? Your photos look great, but I am wondering about your experience in using the lens. How is autofocus speed? How tough is it to get sharp shots at the long end?

I have recently started shooting lacrosse, using the 70-200 VR (awesome lens) on a Nikon D70, but it doesn't have enough reach - I typically need to make significant crops in post processing to get a nice image, but then lose some sharpness.

I have been thinking about a 300 f4, the Bigma, or maybe the Sigma 120-300. I would appreciate any thoughts/comments you have on using this lens for lacrosse.

Thanks

wmstumme

slapshot wrote:

wmstumme wrote:

I was using a Sigma "bigma" on a monopod--quote]

How do you like the Bigma for sports? Your photos look great, but I am wondering about your experience in using the lens. How is autofocus speed? How tough is it to get sharp shots at the long end?

I have recently started shooting lacrosse, using the 70-200 VR (awesome lens) on a Nikon D70, but it doesn't have enough reach - I typically need to make significant crops in post processing to get a nice image, but then lose some sharpness.

I have been thinking about a 300 f4, the Bigma, or maybe the Sigma 120-300. I would appreciate any thoughts/comments you have on using this lens for lacrosse.

Thanks

Saw your posts. Really nice shots. (white jerseys against white--not easy!). I've only had the Bigma for a little over a month, but I really like it. All I had was a cheap quantaray 100-300mm, and this was a huge step up. It is big though. Can't really imagine shooting without a support. So things like switching from portrait to landscape take a few moments. As far as focus speed, it seems really fast to me---but I'm such a rookie I don't have much to compare it to.

All the shots above were shot pretty far on the long end of the lens--I was really trying for the background blur so I wanted a close subject and went really tight. As I think I mentioned earlier, these shots were without much cropping (for better or worse). A girl's lax field is also really wide -- wider than a guys field, so these shots were probably taken from over 20-30 yards away.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Will

W00DY

wmstumme wrote:

The coach:

The coach looks tough , Looks like she would keep the girls in line, just what a good coach should be like.

Cheers.

John Patrick

wmstumme wrote:

I was using a Sigma "bigma" on a monopod--so switching from landscape to portrait takes me a second to re-arrange.

Doesn't the Bigma come with a collar? I don't have a Bigma, but I always thought it did.

Nice shots, #2 and #4 are the best, but could use some more cropping.

Are these for sales or give-aways?

I did give-aways once. Never again. Well, except to the coach as a thank-you.

John

wmstumme

John Patrick wrote:

Doesn't the Bigma come with a collar? I don't have a Bigma, but I always thought it did.

...

Are these for sales or give-aways?

John

Yes it does have a collar. Still takes me longer to undo, rotate, and retighten, than just flipping the camera in my hands did.

The shots are intended for sales. I'm really just getting started in this--I've only had my smugmug account since Jan. Trying to slowly figure this thing out. Really just trying to pay for my hobby--don't really expect it to be something too serious--worried that may take the fun out of it.

I'm also trying to figure out what drives sales. Enough parents have been happy with the shots that this year's smugmug bill is already covered--and I really haven't gotten to too many games--and since they are my daughter's teams, I'm not trying to be to aggressive on the marketing. However, I'm trying to talk alot with the other parents and find out what they liked.

I think quality does matter--but defining that is tough. On another thread--someone indicated the keys to sport shooting was "face, ball, number"--and I certainly agree with face and ball--with face clearly being the number one thing. The other comments I get is that they like action shots--so that the kid/themselves look "cool." They don't seem to be conscious of things like the background - until I do a lousy job of it and then the photo doesn't stand out from "normal snapshots" which they can take themselves.

On your comment about more cropping--I don't disagree; I'm just concerned that if I crop to much that I'm taking away printing options from potential customers.

Thanks for the feedback; I appreciate all I can get...

John Patrick

wmstumme wrote:

Yes it does have a collar. Still takes me longer to undo, rotate, and retighten, than just flipping the camera in my hands did.

Why retighten? Loosen it enough that you can rotate it without applying too much pressure, then leave it there. The collar is meant to do that. Then it's less than a second to go from portrait to landscape. Try it out at home and you'll find the right setting for you.

The shots are intended for sales. I'm really just getting started in this--I've only had my smugmug account since Jan. Trying to slowly figure this thing out. Really just trying to pay for my hobby--don't really expect it to be something too serious--worried that may take the fun out of it.

I'm also trying to figure out what drives sales. Enough parents have been happy with the shots that this year's smugmug bill is already covered--and I really haven't gotten to too many games--and since they are my daughter's teams, I'm not trying to be to aggressive on the marketing. However, I'm trying to talk alot with the other parents and find out what they liked.

Do you have permission of the league? Is there already a contracted action photographer? Get the league's permission (they may expect a kickback, er, commission) and find out if there's a photographer already. If there is, you probably won't be allowed to shoot for sales or give-away.

I think quality does matter--but defining that is tough. On another thread--someone indicated the keys to sport shooting was "face, ball, number"--and I certainly agree with face and ball--with face clearly being the number one thing. The other comments I get is that they like action shots--so that the kid/themselves look "cool." They don't seem to be conscious of things like the background - until I do a lousy job of it and then the photo doesn't stand out from "normal snapshots" which they can take themselves.

Actually, it's: Face, Ball, Action. Number doesn't really sell that well, but some scrapbookers might want a shot showing number and name (if printed on the jersey), but only one.

As for quality, you need a relatively sharp shot, non-distracting backgrounds, and the F/B/A above, and you've got it.

Also, you need to be able to give the parents what they can't get themselves with their little P&S on the sidelines. This usually means having better glass/reach to get in close, special field access, or the "extras" that they can't do themselves: magazine covers, etc.

On your comment about more cropping--I don't disagree; I'm just concerned that if I crop to much that I'm taking away printing options from potential customers.

Thanks for the feedback; I appreciate all I can get...

You want to give them the best version of the photo. If that means cropping, then crop it! When they buy a print, that print is advertising your skill and ability. If you sell a shot uncropped that really needs to be cropped, it degrades the quality of the print.

John