How Wide gets People Distorted

Zanotti

I have a Canon 30D. How wide can I go, in a small enviornment ( say a dinner pary or a living room) before people start to look goofy.

I know its also also matter of distance away, but I think I am defining the distance used. The typical indoor house conditions.

How wide can I go before people start to have bigger noses and unflattering portraits? I had always thought 50mm, but I have seen some neat shots with wider lenses that look pretty good.

I am thinking about a Sigma 10-20 for landscapes - would this be useless inside? I have a 24-105, but it seems pretty close in a restaurant.

Ideas?

Z

LiquidAir

The perspective issues you mention are the result of having the camera too close to your subject. People look the most natural in photos taken at a distance of around 6 feet. Sadly, that means if you shooting in closer quarters, you will suffer some degree of exaggerated perspective no matter what lens you use.

Andy

Not too far away.
16mm on 1Ds Mark II- from about 8 feet from the front of the group, and also about 4' elevated


It's the edges of your frame w/ large groups you have to worry a bit about, eh?

Just don't get this close

Zanotti

OK, so if 8 feet is enough, and the pic of your boy at about two feet is too little - what then Goldilocks is just right?

Across a dinner table?



24mm on a 30D (effective 36mm) f5.6

What would 12mm or 17mm look like?

Z

LiquidAir

Zanotti wrote:

Across a dinner table?

If you are talking formal portraits, that shot looks too close to me; unless I was doing something funky, I'd never shoot a formal that close up. If you are talking family snap shots, its fine but I wouldn't go much closer.

pathfinder

Hi George, good to see you again after Florida.

Wide angles do tend to exagerate noses and ears when you get too close, so I agree with LiquidAir and Andy to try and stay at least 6-8 feet. Also I think it is better if the sensor plane is vertical or ar least parallel to the subjects plane as in Andy's group shot. Or put another way, don't get the sensor plane real oblique to the subject.

And as Andy's pic of his young sons shows, there is lots of leeway with the right photogenic subject. Heavy, stocky subjects will not look their best with a wide angle lens exagerating their midrift bulges.

I think you can use 24mm on a crop camera if you are careful and check for exagerating facial features. I like the picture of your son - not a formal portrait study, but a nice snapshot anyway. I'm not sure I would go a lot wider than that myself.

ziggy53

If you are willing to do some post-processing, you can get very close to curvilinear using Panorama Tools/PTLens, DxO or PhotoShop CS2.

David_S85

ziggy53 wrote:

If you are willing to do some post-processing, you can get very close to curvilinear using Panorama Tools/PTLens, DxO or PhotoShop CS2.

Zig, I think you mean rectilinear (more square and straight and aligned), don't you?

ziggy53

David_S85 wrote:

Zig, I think you mean rectilinear (more square and straight and aligned), don't you?

Yes David, thanks.

LiquidAir

This might help you understand how the persective works:

Give or take, it is about 6 inches from the tip of the nose to the back of the ear which for most people shots is the important range. If you take a picture of someone with the camera 6 inches from their nose, the nose will appear twice as large relative to the ear because it is twice as close to the camera as the ear is. If the camera is one foot a way, the nose will appear 50% larger; if the camera is two feet away the nose will appear 25% larger and so forth.

1 foot = 50%
2 feet = 25%
3 feet = 17%
4 feet = 13%
5 feet = 10%
6 feet = 8%
8 feet = 6%

There is no perfect distance because what is right is to some degree a matter of taste. A small about of foreshortening is usually a good thing in a portrait because it gives the shot a sense of depth. Too much tends to result in a comically inflated nose. Studio portraiture is typically shot at a distance of 6-8 feet because most people find that to be the most pleasing compromise for most subjects.

Zanotti

Interesting ideas. Isnt it also a function of lens angle? Portraits are usually done at 85mm and above to flatten the image for more flattering proportions.

Less than 35mm tends to exaggerate facial features.

How low (wide ) can you go until it looks really bizare?

Pathfinder seems to say 24mm on a crop body for an effective 36mm is as wide as he likes.

I am not saying a formal portrait, but more of a pleasant snapshot.

Thanks,

Z

LiquidAir

If you are shooting a fairly tight headshot with and 85mm lens on an APS-C body you'll find you are standing about 6 feet from your subject. If you take the same shot with a 24mm lens you will be around 2 feet away. However, if you are shooting a full body shot for a standing adult with a 24mm lens, you will be back around 6 to 8 feet away again. The right focal length depends on the shot you are taking. Typically you want to pick a medium tele lens for tight headshots and a wide angle for full body and environmental portraits. There is no one right focal length for all people shots.

A 24mm lens corresponds to about 35mm on full frame which is the widest lens I ever use for people shots on my 5D. The reason for that is not distortion because I rarely take shots close enough to my subject to get distortion. Rather I wouldn't shoot wider than 35mm because wider than that my subject starts looking small in the frame. However, while the 35mm takes great full body shots and environmental portraits, if I ever decided to shoot a tight headshot with the 35mm it would distort quite significantly. When I find myself getting too close to my subject I know it is time to switch lenses.

XHawkeye

Some around/across the table examples




30D @ 12mm around the dinner table.



30D @ 12mm across the table.



30D @ 24mm across a Chick-fil-a table.

Zanotti

Thanks for these across the table shots! This is exactly what I was looking for - I think for snapshop value - these are outstanding.

The family at dinner is easy and not so distorted at all. The Holiday dinner is a little, but nothing I cant live with.

Thanks for sharing - anyone else?

Z