Quick Question (About Baseball)

Mike02 · April 22, 2007

Hey All,
I have a quick question:

I was shooting a baseball game yesterday, (Cubs vs. Cards.); and I couldn't manage to freeze the ball (pitches). I was shooting at 1/500th of a second and up, and was just wondering what shutterspeed you pros on DG use?

VMac · April 22, 2007

Well, I'm definitely not a pro... but, here's my input. It will depend a little on a few factors, like 95mph fastball vs 68mph curve; and whether you behind the plate or off to the side. If you are at a night game, good luck. You can crank the ISO, but I'd rather focus on different types of shots than freezing the ball in those conditions.

I have some shots that are in bright afternoon sun that are at 1/1600, like this one:

Here's one as the sun was going down at 1/640:

Dbl · April 22, 2007

Mike02 wrote:

Hey All,
I have a quick question:

I was shooting a baseball game yesterday, (Cubs vs. Cards.); and I couldn't manage to freeze the ball (pitches). I was shooting at 1/500th of a second and up, and was just wondering what shutterspeed you pros on DG use?

Hi Mike,

At the pro level you if you want to freeze the ball AND pitcher motion, especially batting you will want the highest shutter speed you can get, I personally like something in the 1/6400s or higher if I can get it. I really like 1/8000s. As vmac has so nicely shown you still need in the range of 1/1000s if you want ball movement frozen. As he said depends on the speed of the pitch.

I shoot a ton of college ball and there the minimum would be 1/1500s if it is dark and I prefer 1/3200s as a minimum. At the younger levels 1/1000s works well but again if you can get higher do so.

Remember that it is not all that important to actually freeze the ball. Some motion blur at times works to your advantage. I just keep upping my ISO as the light changes to keep my shutter speeds up as high as I can get away with. I will give you four examples at different speeds with the ball at about the release point. This gives you a more accurate idea of freezing the ball because DOF doesn't come into play.

#1 1/250s.

#2 1/800s This shot is head on so the movement is harder to see, but look at the wrist area for movement.

#3 1/4000s mostly frozen but slight motion is visible.

#4 1/5000s Not much motion here, you can see the logo on the ball.

Mike02 · April 23, 2007

VMac wrote:

Well, I'm definitely not a pro... but, here's my input. It will depend a little on a few factors, like 95mph fastball vs 68mph curve; and whether you behind the plate or off to the side. If you are at a night game, good luck. You can crank the ISO, but I'd rather focus on different types of shots than freezing the ball in those conditions.

Thanks for the tips Vmac, they really do help a bunch

.

Mike02 · April 23, 2007

Dbl wrote:

Hi Mike,

At the pro level you if you want to freeze the ball AND pitcher motion, especially batting you will want the highest shutter speed you can get, I personally like something in the 1/6400s or higher if I can get it. I really like 1/8000s. As vmac has so nicely shown you still need in the range of 1/1000s if you want ball movement frozen. As he said depends on the speed of the pitch.

I shoot a ton of college ball and there the minimum would be 1/1500s if it is dark and I prefer 1/3200s as a minimum. At the younger levels 1/1000s works well but again if you can get higher do so.

Remember that it is not all that important to actually freeze the ball. Some motion blur at times works to your advantage. I just keep upping my ISO as the light changes to keep my shutter speeds up as high as I can get away with. I will give you four examples at different speeds with the ball at about the release point. This gives you a more accurate idea of freezing the ball because DOF doesn't come into play.

#1 1/250s.

#2 1/800s This shot is head on so the movement is harder to see, but look at the wrist area for movement.

#3 1/4000s mostly frozen but slight motion is visible.

#4 1/5000s Not much motion here, you can see the logo on the ball.

Thanks so much for the tips and photos Dan, they have helped me understand shooting baseball even better! Great photos by the way!

I havent seen sports photography that good in a while

.

Mind if I ask what your lens of choice is for sports photography?

Dbl · April 23, 2007

Mike02 wrote:

Thanks so much for the tips and photos Dan, they have helped me understand shooting baseball even better! Great photos by the way!

I havent seen sports photography that good in a while .

Mind if I ask what your lens of choice is for sports photography?

Mike, thank you for the very nice compliment. Your question is a bit difficult for me to answer, I'm sure you know why, it just depends on the sport and situation. If you ask me what my favorite lens to use is...hands down the 300/2.8. I can use it as is or put on a 1.4TC with virtually no loss of IQ or focus speed. That lens is so sharp and the bokeh makes life so much easier with distracting backgrounds we all have to deal with. I use it for nearly every sport with very few exceptions.

If you want the most versatile lens for me...hands down the 70-200/2.8. Again use it in conjunction with a 1.4TC and you have a lens that comes close to doing it all.

The other factor is what are type of shooting are you doing? Event work where you are trying to capture a high volume of shots or maybe more toward publication or just trying to get a photo that stands on its own or really tells a story, lower volume shooting. Not sure I explained that well, but I hope you understand what I mean.

I kind of base my lens decision on all those factors and sometimes throw all that out the window and just try something different. Sorry for the rambling post, but I hope that answers your question. I'm sure others have their own ideas and experiences that might be different than mine.

Mike02 · April 24, 2007

Dbl wrote:

Mike, thank you for the very nice compliment. Your question is a bit difficult for me to answer, I'm sure you know why, it just depends on the sport and situation. If you ask me what my favorite lens to use is...hands down the 300/2.8. I can use it as is or put on a 1.4TC with virtually no loss of IQ or focus speed. That lens is so sharp and the bokeh makes life so much easier with distracting backgrounds we all have to deal with. I use it for nearly every sport with very few exceptions.

If you want the most versatile lens for me...hands down the 70-200/2.8. Again use it in conjunction with a 1.4TC and you have a lens that comes close to doing it all.

The other factor is what are type of shooting are you doing? Event work where you are trying to capture a high volume of shots or maybe more toward publication or just trying to get a photo that stands on its own or really tells a story, lower volume shooting. Not sure I explained that well, but I hope you understand what I mean.

I kind of base my lens decision on all those factors and sometimes throw all that out the window and just try something different. Sorry for the rambling post, but I hope that answers your question. I'm sure others have their own ideas and experiences that might be different than mine.

No problem, Dan. I really do like your photography :P.

Damn, I only wish I could afford a 300 f/2.8, but Im just an amateur shooting (Mostly) for fun. Although one day, I hope I can do this professionally.

Hmm, Im mostly shooting for myself, but if I had to define it, I would be shooting for publication, or 'one good photo' lol. But I'd like to get a few photos that tell a story as well :P.

Thanks for the thorough post Dan, it does answer my questions, for better or worse ;P. Now I'll just have to save up for a 300 f/4 or a 300 f/2.8! :P

natephoto · April 25, 2007

Focus Mode
Hey Guys--

This topic is really helpful!

I just bought a 70-200 2.8 IS.. I'm thrilled with it so far, but was wondering what focus & metering mode you would suggest? I shot some baseball this past weekend and played around between the center point and all points for AF on my 20D. AL Focus? Al Servo? One Shot?

And, when trying to get those higher shutter speeds,, is it better to crank up the ISO on P mode? Or shoot shutter priority (tv) ? (or both, tv with high ISO?)

Thanks in advance!
Nate

johng · April 25, 2007

Nate,

A few tidbits on baseball shooting.

My preference is to shoot either manual exposure or AV. Manual is definitely the preference if the lighting is consistent. That way, jerseys aren't affecting your exposures. This can be especially problematic in bright sunlight and white jerseys. You can get about 1.3 stops underexposure in that case if you rely on the camera to meter for you.

If the lighting isn't constant (sun moving in and out of clouds) - use AV mode. But, you may have to use EC - depending on the shadows from the hat or helmet. If I'm shooting the offense I'll typically have about +2/3 EC if there's sunlight to compensate for the shadows from the helmet. If it's overcast then I'm probably shooting manual but if I am in AV I probably only have +1/3 or 0 EC. The key, in any event, is to expose for the faces not the uniform.

For baseball I prefer all focus points vs center - the 20d seems to do much better using all points and with this sport you don't have the mingling of subjects like you do in soccer, football, babsketball etc. So the AF doesn't get confused and switch subjects like it would in those other sports.

I recommend AI-Servo mode - after all you want to track/shoot moving subjects. BUT, baseball benefits greatly from the Cfn-4 (I use 4-3) - because you can pre-focus a lot of the time. Want to catch the play at second for a steal? Pre-focus with cfn-4 and remove your thumb and just wait for the play - same with a play at 1st. 1st baseman gets to the bag you prefocus on him and romove your thumb and wait. You don't have to worry about the servo focusing switching at the last minute because the 1st baseman reaches wide for the throw and your focus switches to the fence behind him.

I recommend shooting wide open at 2.8. So if you need more shutter speed you only have to worry about one parameter - ISO. Simply adjust ISO until you get the speed you want. Shooting wide open also helps get rid of the ugly backgrounds. The only time you should come off 2.8 is if you want a specific shot with more DOF. Most times with only 200mm that won't be a problem.

Also - shoot portrait orientation - most of the action is vertical rather than horizontal (the exception being plays at a bag especially with a slide).

Also remember, 200mm is not very long for baseball. So don't expect to get many outfield shots. In fact, if you're shooting from say 3rd base line, 200mm isn't really long enough to get to 1st base - so you'll need to be close to the action.

johng · April 25, 2007

Mike02 wrote:

Damn, I only wish I could afford a 300 f/2.8, but Im just an amateur shooting (Mostly) for fun. Although one day, I hope I can do this professionally.

Now I'll just have to save up for a 300 f/4 or a 300 f/2.8! :P

Another alternative is Sigma's 120-300 2.8. It's not quite on par with the Canon or Nikon 300mm 2.8 but it's about 90% there and it's only $2200. AND, it's a zoom - so you can get away with using a single body (although it's too tight for the near bag - i.e. if you're shooting from 3rd base it's too tight for action at third base) Really great results at half the cost. If you're not a pro relying on the photos to make a living it's an excellent alternative.

Some random shots with the 120-300:

Mike02 · April 25, 2007

johng wrote:

Another alternative is Sigma's 120-300 2.8. It's not quite on par with the Canon or Nikon 300mm 2.8 but it's about 90% there and it's only $2200. AND, it's a zoom - so you can get away with using a single body (although it's too tight for the near bag - i.e. if you're shooting from 3rd base it's too tight for action at third base) Really great results at half the cost. If you're not a pro relying on the photos to make a living it's an excellent alternative.

Some random shots with the 120-300:

Nice shots john! The only thing is, I'm really itching for some Nikon glass lol. An experienced sports photographer once told me, always go for the best; So I accept no less than Nikon :P.

Dbl · April 25, 2007

I agree with johng on most everything in his post. I use the same metering techniques, manual for consistent lighting and Av with usually +1/3 EC. I don't worry much about blowing out whites in uniforms, I try to get the right exposure on the faces from the camera.

I also move the focus to the back * button with Cfn 4-3. I shot AI servo put prefer center point focus only. I find my keeper rate higher with that method but everyone has their own preferences.

I also shoot about 75% horizontal, works nicer for me for fielding plays and batter shots, which is what I'm trying to capture the vast majority of the time.

I used a Sigma 100-300 f4 for a college season and while I loved the IQ and the color and contrast I went through three lenses with focus issues before I gave up. People seem to have better success with the Sigma's with a Mark II body with its faster focus system, but as johng proves they can provide a nice lens for the price. The zooms are nice to use but I have gotten very used to using a prime.

Remember that you have to develop your own shooting style, experiment with different techniques and come up with what works for you. There really is no perfect answer, these are just suggestions for starting points that work successfully for others.

Quick Question (About Baseball)

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