The Logo Workshop

DavidTO · April 23, 2007

A logo can be a really important part of your business image. It creates unity across all of your media, website, business cards, etc. It expresses something of yourself and what you want people to feel about your business. It can be made up of letters, clip art, or shapes. A logo is one of the basic ways that you tell the world who you are. It uses words and graphics to do this, so that it both conveys facts and emotions.

Last week I was helping dragon300zx with his business card. At that time, his logo looked like this:

We both agreed that he could do better. His assignment was to redesign his logo without using any fonts that came installed on his computer. Everyone's seen them, and they just look worn and tired, for the most part. He also read through bamagazine.com's Design a Logo of Letters!. This is what he came up with:

Better, eh? But it's still a work in progress. What do you think about it? How can it be improved? What does it say to you?

Another great resource for design is The Non-Designer's Design Book. I highly recommend this book as an introduction to design, type etc. If you want to improve the design of your site, your business cards, your logo, get that book, and read bamagazine.com. Anyone else have any great resources for design? :ear

If you want to develop a logo, or improve the one you have, post it here, and we'll all work together as a community to really make it sing!

dragon300zx · April 23, 2007

And I'd like to say thanks to david. I knew I needed a new logo but I needed that kick to make myself do it, and it was easier than I thought it would be after the help I got from the resources he mentioned.

Edit

Just to add some more info here. I used the Logo of Letters method that you can read about in the free .pdf that david posted. But as was also mentioned he challenged me to not use a font I already had on my computer. This ment it was time to go hunting. So I went to my font source for the last few years (1001freefonts.com) and started searching their emense database of fonts. When I found the one I liked I downloaded the .zip file, expanded it and installed the font (they even include instructions on how to do this in the .zip file and if those aren't clear enough just post here and I or someone else will gladly explain it for you). Then it was just a matter of playing in illustrator and photoshop to get what I wanted.

Gary

jdryan3 · April 23, 2007

I like the red ZX alot. Much improved compared to the old one. David's point about the fonts is dead on.

But I think the little dots in each letter is overkill - just a tad too cute IMHO, and even distracting. Keep one in the u or the d. One in the o looks too much like a target.

dragon300zx · April 23, 2007

jdryan3 wrote:

...just a tad too cute IMHO.....

I will play around with your suggestions and see how it comes out. After all everything can be improved on. The dots however are actually part of the font that I used and not something I added in. However it's funny that you mention it being too cute. That’s actually one of the things I was told I needed to add in a bit of (cuteness) because one of the complaints I have had is allot of the stuff I put together comes off as too masculine and hard, and may actually be turning off some of my possible female clientele.

I have a tendency to try and make everything look like it belongs on a race car, etc, so it is important that my design include some soft/cute to it in order to appeal to women clients.

DavidTO · April 23, 2007

dragon300zx wrote:

I will play around with your suggestions and see how it comes out. After all everything can be improved on. The dots however are actually part of the font that I used and not something I added in. However it's funny that you mention it being too cute. That’s actually one of the things I was told I needed to add in a bit of (cuteness) because one of the complaints I have had is allot of the stuff I put together comes off as too masculine and hard, and may actually be turning off some of my possible female clientele.

I have a tendency to try and make everything look like it belongs on a race car, etc, so it is important that my design include some soft/cute to it in order to appeal to women clients.

I tend to think of what's missing from your logo, your site and your business cards to date is not so much cuteness as softness. I could be wrong, but in wedding photography at least half of your clientele are women, if not more. Meaning I would bet (pros, please chime in here) that if you don't appeal to the woman, you ain't getting the job.

dragon300zx · April 23, 2007

I agree with that seeing as everytime I sit down with a couple 90% of the time the man sits and tries not to fall asleep. It's the woman who is making the decision a majority of the time.

Angelo · April 24, 2007

dragon300zx wrote:

And I'd like to say thanks to david. I knew I needed a new logo but I needed that kick to make myself do it, and it was easier than I thought it would be after the help I got from the resources he mentioned.

Edit

Just to add some more info here. I used the Logo of Letters method that you can read about in the free .pdf that david posted. But as was also mentioned he challenged me to not use a font I already had on my computer. This ment it was time to go hunting. So I went to my font source for the last few years (1001freefonts.com) and started searching their emense database of fonts. When I found the one I liked I downloaded the .zip file, expanded it and installed the font (they even include instructions on how to do this in the .zip file and if those aren't clear enough just post here and I or someone else will gladly explain it for you). Then it was just a matter of playing in illustrator and photoshop to get what I wanted.

Gary

Gary:

Congratulations. I give you an A+ for effort. I think you've done a very nice job with your exercise.

I offer up some critiques in hope of helping you along.

a) overall the logo doesn't say "photography" to me. It makes me think more electronics or automotives.

b) you have light source from 2 different directions

c) I don't care for mixing rectilinear and curvalinear fonts. I think they clash

d) the "X" does not read as such. It is graphically incomplete rendering more a Greek lambda.

Good luck

DavidTO · April 28, 2007

Anyone else?

dragon300zx · April 28, 2007

I am hoping to have time to work on this more this weekend as I need to order cards no later than tuesday. I will have a updated version by monday afternoon that will take everyones comments into consideration so nows a good time to chime in.

gus · April 28, 2007

Angelo wrote:

Gary:

Congratulations. I give you an A+ for effort. I think you've done a very nice job with your exercise.

I offer up some critiques in hope of helping you along.

a) overall the logo doesn't say "photography" to me. It makes me think more electronics or automotives.

b) you have light source from 2 different directions

c) I don't care for mixing rectilinear and curvalinear fonts. I think they clash

d) the "X" does not read as such. It is graphically incomplete rendering more a Greek lambda.

Good luck

I agree with angelo. To me it looks like a computer game manufacturers tag.

chrisjlee · May 2, 2007

dragon300zx wrote:

I am hoping to have time to work on this more this weekend as I need to order cards no later than tuesday. I will have a updated version by monday afternoon that will take everyones comments into consideration so nows a good time to chime in.

Gary:

I think its because you love cars too much. Your logo looks like a car/high tech logo.

Keep it simple.

dragon300zx · May 2, 2007

I haven't had time to even think about this let alone work on it but I do see your guys point. The problem for me is Chris is very much on the spot. I am a huge car nut, and I'm an IT director. So when it comes to the design aspects of this it's really hard to break out of what I am used to.

evoryware · May 2, 2007

Well I'll play. I'm currently looking through 1001 free fonts, but I can see that's going to take a month. Hopefully not making a fool of my self here, but I had to start somewhere. I've wanted to make a logo for years.

It's my initials, DAK. Interested in layout opinion. Once I have the format I'd make a few with different color combinations.
laid back, colorful, simple is what I'm shooting for.

1.

2.

3.

fotodojo · May 3, 2007

Not sure if I missed a post where this might have been posted but you should probably head here and have a general inspirational look about: LogoPond

DavidTO · May 3, 2007

evoryware wrote:

Well I'll play. .......

This one is getting somewhere, I think.

ian408 · May 3, 2007

When you are designing your logo, think about how it will be used. Do you want others to use it? If so, how will they use it? Will you allow B&W use? How big should it be? What are the proportions and do they scale as you enlarge the logo? What will the logo appear on? How will you use it? Will the design work in its 3D look and flat?

I think your logo looks pretty good. I would change the lighting, the rounded edges or maybe a little less 3D. The font looks fine (to me at least).

saurora · May 3, 2007

I like this one....simple and colorful at the same time. I can see it on a white background.....

evoryware · May 3, 2007

Thanks for that suggestion and comments. As I make it I realize little things, like using a transparent background may not work if the background is the same color as the wording. The A won't work on a black background, say smugmug default theme.

I'm assuming you guys either copyright or trademark your logos?

Oh, regarding size, it appears to be fine and readable from 50 x 33 all the way to 2048 x 1364. Still have a ton of other factors to look at.

evoryware · May 16, 2007

hmm that was supposed to be in another thread. That is what happens when you are busy and overwhelmed. I apologize to those that saw what was posted there.

evoryware · May 16, 2007

still working on it.

RogersDA · May 17, 2007

Some of the comments on the ZX logo I agree with.

So I played for a few minutes.

MichaelKirk · October 28, 2008

Old thread but I'd like (need) some help
I'm in dire DIRE need of getting a logo designed.

Here is what I am currently using - just because I liked the font and have no idea about designing a logo

Playing around in CS3 last night I put this together, but I really don't like it. (I just threw the word "Photography" in there because my name seemed too short.

I'm open for any and all suggestion and possible recommendations. I've spent the better part of the last two days scouring CS turtiorial on how just to create a logo or some sort of design, but I really lack the artistic creativity to generate a decent design. I shoot primarily sports, but don't want a logo specifically sports related incase things change down the road.

HELP!

Michael

DavidTO · October 28, 2008

Your logo doesn't say sports to me. Shouldn't it?

MichaelKirk · October 28, 2008

No

DavidTO wrote:

Your logo doesn't say sports to me. Shouldn't it?

I don't want a sports specific logo since I do a bit of other work as well. Looking ahead, in case sports becomes a smaller portion of what I do I want a universal type of branding. I was aiming at something that would show motion, action, ect.

Michael

thenimirra · October 28, 2008

I'm still trying to get the funding together so I can get a logo made. I have money coming in from an assignment at the end of the month so I can pay $350 to get my logo created. Thanks for posting this thread...it's a good read! And I love the OP's design.

CWSkopec · October 28, 2008

MichaelKirk wrote:

I'm in dire DIRE need of getting a logo designed.

Here is what I am currently using - just because I liked the font and have no idea about designing a logo

Playing around in CS3 last night I put this together, but I really don't like it. (I just threw the word "Photography" in there because my name seemed too short.

I'm open for any and all suggestion and possible recommendations. I've spent the better part of the last two days scouring CS turtiorial on how just to create a logo or some sort of design, but I really lack the artistic creativity to generate a decent design. I shoot primarily sports, but don't want a logo specifically sports related incase things change down the road.

HELP!
Michael

Michael,
I think you need more inspiration than tutorial. With even a basic understanding of Photoshop, you can create an amazing logo, as long as you have the idea for an amazing logo. Take a look at this site:

http://logopond.com

There are 900 some pages of nothing but good looking logos. Wander through them, find a few you like and try to identify what you like about them.

From your samples, the green, abstract smoke is interesting, though it's ruined by the text over top of it... it became way to complex with the twisting, curving line of text which is conflicting with it more than complimenting it. And of course there's nothing wrong with creating a text only logo, but your first sample is plain to be interesting. It shows that you found a font you liked and just typed it in... and that's not really a good thing.

But before I run on too much, take a look at that site and see if you can find some inspiration there, something to work towards with your logo.

dogwood · October 28, 2008

My two-cents on this thread -- hire a graphic designer to design your logo!

It's not as expensive as you might think (check out logo mojo for example -- a logo with unlimited revisions is around $300 and I can personally vouch they do a FANTASTIC job).

Does anyone else see the irony in this thread? As photographers, we spend plenty of time convincing clients that we have the gear and experience to shoot portraits, sports, weddings, etc BETTER than the client can and that it's worth paying us for this experience.

Would you EVER tell a client to have Uncle Joe shoot their wedding with his DSLR (which may be the exact same camera you shoot with)?

It just seems like a double-standard to assume that because you have Photoshop or whatever, that you should design your own logo. Of course you CAN design your own logo. But that doesn't mean you should. Anymore than it means Uncle Joe should shoot your wedding or senior portraits.

Again, just my two cents. But if you're gonna design your own logo, don't get upset when someone decides your photography fees are too much and it would be cheaper to use Uncle Joe. All too often in life, you really do get what you pay for.

jdryan3 · October 29, 2008

dogwood wrote:

It just seems like a double-standard to assume that because you have Photoshop or whatever, that you should design your own logo. Of course you CAN design your own logo. All too often in life, you really do get what you pay for.

My wife, the Graphic Designer, specialty being Corporate Identity, absolutely agrees. :smooch

Now, dogwood, where should she send your check?

Nikolai · October 29, 2008

jdryan3 wrote:

My wife, the Graphic Designer, specialty being Corporate Identity, absolutely agrees. :smooch

Does she have "dgrin specials" promotions?

CWSkopec · October 29, 2008

dogwood wrote:

My two-cents on this thread -- hire a graphic designer to design your logo!

It's not as expensive as you might think (check out logo mojo for example -- a logo with unlimited revisions is around $300 and I can personally vouch they do a FANTASTIC job).

Does anyone else see the irony in this thread? As photographers, we spend plenty of time convincing clients that we have the gear and experience to shoot portraits, sports, weddings, etc BETTER than the client can and that it's worth paying us for this experience.

Would you EVER tell a client to have Uncle Joe shoot their wedding with his DSLR (which may be the exact same camera you shoot with)?

It just seems like a double-standard to assume that because you have Photoshop or whatever, that you should design your own logo. Of course you CAN design your own logo. But that doesn't mean you should. Anymore than it means Uncle Joe should shoot your wedding or senior portraits.

Again, just my two cents. But if you're gonna design your own logo, don't get upset when someone decides your photography fees are too much and it would be cheaper to use Uncle Joe. All too often in life, you really do get what you pay for.

Dogwood,
You make some good points. And I won't argue that most times in life you get what you pay for (case in point, the Ikea coffee table I bought for $20 broke in 3 months, the one I built for $40+my time is stll standing 3 years later). However, I think people should be encouraged to try first if they want to and this thread is here to help give some ideas to improve it if that's that path they choose.

By no means should we say, YOU HAVE PHOTOSHOP MAKE YOUR OWN LOGO!! But by automatically defaulting to, "Hire someone, you don't know what you're doing" we're taking away an element of self pride. A lot of people whould be happy to show off that they can do that as well, and yes if you haven't done it before it takes a lot of time to perfect it, but why not encourage and assist the folks that want to try?

It's almost as if you're saying since I've never sold a photo, and thus not a pro, I shouldn't even bother trying. That's taking it to the extreme, I know, but it helps illustrate my point.

Dee · October 29, 2008

There can be one problem with designing your own logo, you become way too attached to your creation

In another forum a photographer carefully spent hours of time designing his own logo which he was very proud of, but the forum hated. He finally went to a professional and wound up with an excellent logo quite different from the one he designed.

I'm glad he turned out to be flexible enough to embrace the new logo, as this was for a brand new photography venture in a different state.

However, it's a lot of fun to play with designing a logo and some photographers do quite well at it, but most logos are designed in a vector program, not a raster program

Ian408's comments about your logo looking good tiny and large are quite valid. We often made 3 in-house versions of a client's logo -- one simplified for small ads and business cards, a "normal" logo, and we'd tweak letter spacing for the extra large logo (for building signs, banners, etc.).

If you plan to do any print advertising you'd better be sure to have a black and white version of your logo that works, as well as a grayscale version (if applicable). And if you print in color be aware that the more colors you use the more you will have to pay, which is why you should design your logo in CMYK and not "spot" colors.

If you have a professional work on your logo be sure to get a black version, a reverse version (white to go on dark colors), grayscale (if applicable to your design), CMYK and an RGB version. The CMYK and RGB should match as closely as possible.

The black or white version of your logo would be used for local newspaper ads. You use the black, white or grayscale for black and white ads in a magazine. Your CMYK logo would be used for a color ad in a brochure, magazine, etc.

Some newspapers now print in color and you can use your CMYK logo there. Your rgb logo is for web use. All these advances, by the way, make it very difficult for graphic designers as line screens differ. Why worry about line screen? Well the courser the line screen 65 or 85 for instance, the less fine detail your logo will have especially at a small size, while at a magazine's 133 line screen your logo will be nice and sharp with plenty of detail.

Be sure to ask for an editable eps versions of your logos that can be opened in the vector software you currently use. This way you can make small tweaks if you need to, or so that you can make up your own black, white, grayscale, CMYK and RGB versions as you need them (if not supplied by the designer).

If you can honestly say your logo will only appear on your website or the internet, you can forget most of what I said, except for thinking about how small your logo can be and still look good.

Remember, you might want to make note cards, t-shirts, etc. using your logo and -- try not to pick something so trendy it will look outdated in a couple of years.

While I'll agree that most people should look beyond their "standard" computer fonts, I don't recommend picking something so wild, it's unreadable.

Your logo should also "go" with your area of photography. If you shoot people, choose a people friendly logo, if you are into race cars, pick something wild and zippy. I don't believe one should pick "frilly" and super feminine fonts if you are doing wedding photography, (for example) stick with something clean and easy to read.

Enough for one thread!

The Logo Workshop

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