Input on new camera

USAIR

I am looking to buy a new camera -- 20d my budget is about $4000. (maybe a little more selling my 717)

Here's my thoughts (all prices from B&H)
20d - $1499
2gb cf - $194
24-70 f/2.8L usm $1139 ---Question here.. what is the difference between inported lens and USA lens money wise it's about $100 ?

That leaves $1168 for big zoom for birds and sports --any suggestions here ?

B&H has a kit 20d,2g cf and 18-55 usm for $1664 but I am just not sure of that lens.

Thanks
Fred

cmr164

USAIR wrote:

I am looking to buy a new camera -- 20d my budget is about $4000. (maybe a little more selling my 717)

Here's my thoughts (all prices from B&H)
20d - $1499
2gb cf - $194
24-70 f/2.8L usm $1139 ---Question here.. what is the difference between inported lens and USA lens money wise it's about $100 ?

That leaves $1168 for big zoom for birds and sports --any suggestions here ?

B&H has a kit 20d,2g cf and 18-55 usm for $1664 but I am just not sure of that lens.

Thanks
Fred

www.adorama.com (the other B7H )

EOS 20d -- $1,359.95
24-70 2.8L - $1,119.95

For Canon products the difference between USA and Gray is unimportant for Nikon and other brands there have been serious warranty issues.

It is like to raise all sorts of religious hatred but I strongly recommend a 4G microdrve for $189.95. A 2G card just isn't big enough and the failure rates for 8 billion transisters is not really that much better than a platter and head.

Ordering from Adorama leaves you with a slightly more 1330.15 which is very very close to th Adorama price for the Canon 100-400L, 1369.95

gus

cmr164 wrote:

I strongly recommend a 4G microdrve for $189.95. A 2G card just isn't big enough and the failure rates for 8 billion transisters is not really that much better than a platter and head.

I was wondering just that charles. I know from a thread way back that baldy got caught out with Micro drive. But i have been caught out with SD cards also.

What do the pro's use now ?

I ask that because the dig camera world changes every 5 mins.

USAIR

Charles

cmr164 wrote:

www.adorama.com (the other B7H )

EOS 20d -- $1,359.95
24-70 2.8L - $1,119.95

For Canon products the difference between USA and Gray is unimportant for Nikon and other brands there have been serious warranty issues.

It is like to raise all sorts of religious hatred but I strongly recommend a 4G microdrve for $189.95. A 2G card just isn't big enough and the failure rates for 8 billion transisters is not really that much better than a platter and head.

Ordering from Adorama leaves you with a slightly more 1330.15 which is very very close to th Adorama price for the Canon 100-400L, 1369.95

I have another 2g cf ...my thinking is not to put all my eggs in one basket
but I will look into the micro drive also

Looked at Adorama site can only find 4 canon lens ?

Thanks
Fred

pathfinder

USAIR wrote:

I have another 2g cf ...my thinking is not to put all my eggs in one basket
but I will look into the micro drive also

Looked at Adorama site can only find 4 canon lens ?

Thanks
Fred

Adorama should have a full Canon catalog set of lenses. I don't think I've seen one I couldn't find there if B&H carried it too

DavidTO

When I was checking the price on the 20D, B&H's published price was 1499, but when you added it to your cart it was 1399. Check it out.

cmr164

USAIR wrote:

I have another 2g cf ...my thinking is not to put all my eggs in one basket
but I will look into the micro drive also

Looked at Adorama site can only find 4 canon lens ?

Thanks
Fred

You looked at "digital slr lenses" and there are just the 4 EF-s lenses. Look at SLR lenses and the entire Canon line is there.

The Microdrive is inside all those 4G Ipods and take a lot of punishment. I have used them for more than 5 years (2 x 340M, 2 * 1G, one 4G) and they are all still in service.

One of the big Euro news agencies uses only microdrives... I was trying to search rec.photo.digital for the reference and could not find it but here is a testiment to the microdrive's durability

luckyrwe

I have dropped CD cards. With microdrives that is usually the end of that.

cmr164

luckyrwe wrote:

I have dropped CD cards. With microdrives that is usually the end of that.

The non-operating microdrive is rated for 2000G. I don't think I ever generated 2000 G dropping anything, let alone something as light as a microdrive. But you know a 4G drive comes out of the camera half as often as a 2G drive so you chance of dropping is way lower.

luckyrwe

How much spin down time does the drive need?

cmr164

luckyrwe wrote:

How much spin down time does the drive need?

You aren't seriously imagining that the drive is ever spinning outside the camera?

dkapp

The thing that kept me away from the microdrives is read & write speed. Maybe they've improved from the days of my IBM 340mb, but it was & still is painfully slow compared to my CF cards.

Dave

luckyrwe

When you shut down the camera, the drive shuts down. But does it take one second? Ten seconds? Computer hard drives have to spin down too, and it is basically a computer hard drive. It is a moving part, or rather many moving parts. I guess you can say it is an infinite number more moving parts than the CF card.

dkapp, the new drives are 166x speed!

cmr164

dkapp wrote:

The thing that kept me away from the microdrives is read & write speed. Maybe they've improved from the days of my IBM 340mb, but it was & still is painfully slow compared to my CF cards.

Dave

That always was a camera firmware problem and not a microdrive problem. It is only the 40x CF cards that caught up to the actual speed of the microdrives. The Kodak Pro dslrs were always fastest with microdrives and the 1DMII is pretty good. The D30, D60, D300, D10 are just busted.

luckyrwe

cmr164 wrote:

...But you know a 4G drive comes out of the camera half as often as a 2G drive so you chance of dropping is way lower.

Hmmm. Yesterday I shot 51MB worth of pictures and the card came out. The day beore I shot 1.2GB and I removed the card to upload. The statement you made is true only if you fill up the card before removing it.

I guess it is all the moving parts and the words "hard drive" that make me want to use kid gloves. I have had hard drives crash on me, but I cannot recall the last time I had a strip of bad RAM. There is a lot to be said about solid state.

Andy

fred, take a look at www.onecall.com they have super prices usually, and when you join their pass program (free) you get an add'l 1% off. i've done a bit of shopping there over the past year, and i can recommend them.

fwiw

USAIR

Charles

cmr164 wrote:

You looked at "digital slr lenses" and there are just the 4 EF-s lenses. Look at SLR lenses and the entire Canon line is there.

The Microdrive is inside all those 4G Ipods and take a lot of punishment. I have used them for more than 5 years (2 x 340M, 2 * 1G, one 4G) and they are all still in service.

One of the big Euro news agencies uses only microdrives... I was trying to search rec.photo.digital for the reference and could not find it but here is a testiment to the microdrive's durability

Yes you were correct I was looking in the wrong place
Found the whole line

Thanks
Fred

USAIR

Few more ???
First on the lens their are no differences between the Gray and USA ?

No problem with warranty ?



How much battery life difference between microdrive and cf memory.

Just trying to figure if I need an additional battery.



When I was shooting sports for the school here, I used 717 and 828, carried five batteries, and would use them up in one day of shooting.

Is the 20d battery life better or worse then these two cameras?



Thanks everyone for the help
Fred

Andy

USAIR wrote:

Is the 20d battery life better or worse then these two cameras?



Thanks everyone for the help
Fred

a 20d with one battery onboard and anohter in your pocket can't be drained in a day. well, if it was 0degs and you were using onboard flash all day maybe.

USAIR

Andy

andy wrote:

a 20d with one battery onboard and anohter in your pocket can't be drained in a day. well, if it was 0degs and you were using onboard flash all day maybe.

Thats good to hear thanks for your help
Fred

luckyrwe

USAIR wrote:

First on the lens their are no differences between the Gray and USA ?
No problem with warranty ?
How much battery life difference between microdrive and cf memory.
Just trying to figure if I need an additional battery.
Fred

I used to think that Gray Market was bad juju, then I realized that every camera sold in Japan does not have a USA waranty, hence "Gray" if imported to the USA. They are the same stuff, they work fine. Now with digital bodies I wonder if some odf the options may differ, and there is the wonder where if something goes realy wrong, will you be covered. But as far as the physical lens itself, they do not have a different manufacturing method for USA lenses.

The microdrive uses more power than CF of course, but I heard somewhere that over the course of 1000 images it will use enough power to have made only 30 more images, so we're not talking much of a drain at all. At least nothing to dwell over. An AF lens hunting for the focal point will use more power.

But get a battery anyhow. Always. You never know when yours will die. I sometimes with that my 1DMkII would use AA batteries, but since it does not and I have no other choice, I choose to not be without power at the worst possible time.

USAIR

Prices
Here's what I have found

B&H $1387.15
Adorama $1388.80
Onecall $1447.75

This is just 20d body + 3 day shipping to Alexandria,Ky. total price
Thought this might be helpful to some

I will be buying in a couple of weeks so if anyone wants to add more please do

I am really intrested in figuring out the lenses before I buy
I have been reading the lens threads on dgrin trying to absorb as much as I can

Thanks again
Fred

jimf

luckyrwe wrote:

The microdrive uses more power than CF of course, but I heard somewhere that over the course of 1000 images it will use enough power to have made only 30 more images, so we're not talking much of a drain at all.

I don't know what you heard or where, but that hasn't been my experience. 30% more is about what I see -- call it 600 versus 800 frames, that sounds about right. Mind you, 600 frames is still a hell of a lot of shooting; I never considered increased power consumption to be a significant detriment to microdrive.

If you have a fast body (as Charles says, not a 300D or 10D) then newer CF cards can easily outperform microdrive, and even if you don't have a fast body then offloading it through a CF card reader can be much faster with a CF card than a microdrive. With some of the newer 80x cards the difference is about a factor of two.

I have both microdrive and CF cards and I strongly prefer CF; solid state, no moving parts, much more difficult to damage -- not that I've lost a microdrive yet, but I know people who have. All it takes is one bad drop.

What's more, these days mainstream CF (up to about 2G) is about the same cost as a microdrive and if density is everything then you can get twice the density with CF versus microdrive. Neither was true even a year ago. I think the years of microdrive being an interesting choice in storage are shortly going to be behind us.

But microdrives sure are cool -- all that mechanics in that itty bitty box.

USAIR

I pulled the trigger too
just like Charles (only on a smaller scale)

I know I said a couple of weeks but I couldn't wait

There is a wrestling tournament coming up at the high school so what the heck.

Just wanted to give an update on what I decided.


Canon 20d
2g cf card
Spare battery
24 -70 f/2.8 usm
77 mm polarizer
All from B&H


In the not to distant future will be the 70-200 f/2.8L is usm

Thanks everyone for the help

Fred

cmr164

USAIR wrote:

just like Charles (only on a smaller scale)

I know I said a couple of weeks but I couldn't wait

There is a wrestling tournament coming up at the high school so what the heck.

Just wanted to give an update on what I decided.


Canon 20d
2g cf card
Spare battery
24 -70 f/2.8 usm
77 mm polorizer
All from B&H


In the not to distant future will be the 70-200 f/2.8L is usm

Thanks everyone for the help

Fred

Excellent choices!! You will have a blast!

fish

USAIR wrote:

I know I said a couple of weeks but I couldn't wait

Gotta love that urge for instant gratification. :lol I can't tell you how much I've spent on overnight and 2 day shipping just to get a goody sooner.

Just wanted to give an update on what I decided.
Canon 20d
2g cf card
Spare battery
24 -70 f/2.8 usm
77 mm polorizer
All from B&H

Wise choices, grasshopper. My only suggestions would be to get a generic battery, as they typically have higher mah numbers than Canon and are cheaper. Also, unless you plan on shooting a lot of reflective surfaces right off the bat, I'd recommend that you hold off on the polarizer (you know it has to be circular, right?) and get a high quality multi-coated UV filter instead (B+W or Heliopan). If you shoot RAW, you'll be able to pump up the saturation and adjust the exposure sufficiently to where a polarizer can be superfluous. Just my opinion, of course.

Have fun, Fred!

USAIR

Fish

fish wrote:

Gotta love that urge for instant gratification. :lol I can't tell you how much I've spent on overnight and 2 day shipping just to get a goody sooner.
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Wise choices, grasshopper. My only suggestions would be to get a generic battery, as they typically have higher mah numbers than Canon and are cheaper. Also, unless you plan on shooting a lot of reflective surfaces right off the bat, I'd recommend that you hold off on the polarizer (you know it has to be circular, right?) and get a high quality multi-coated UV filter instead (B+W or Heliopan). If you shoot RAW, you'll be able to pump up the saturation and adjust the exposure sufficiently to where a polarizer can be superfluous. Just my opinion, of course.

Have fun, Fred!

Yes I ordered the generic battery is was 1500 mah instead of 1390 mah
Yes the polarizer was circular.

Can't wait to take it for a test drive.

Fred

wxwax

USAIR wrote:

just like Charles (only on a smaller scale)

I know I said a couple of weeks but I couldn't wait

There is a wrestling tournament coming up at the high school so what the heck.

Just wanted to give an update on what I decided.


Canon 20d
2g cf card
Spare battery
24 -70 f/2.8 usm
77 mm polarizer
All from B&H


In the not to distant future will be the 70-200 f/2.8L is usm

Thanks everyone for the help

Fred

ian408

Humungus wrote:

I was wondering just that charles. I know from a thread way back that baldy got caught out with Micro drive. But i have been caught out with SD cards also.

What do the pro's use now ?

I ask that because the dig camera world changes every 5 mins.

I broke down and picked up a 4G microdrive for $140 w/rebate. It's a Hitachi
(nee IBM). So far, I think it's slower than memory but certainly usable. And
as Steve C. suggested a while back, I won't run out of memory so soon

Ian

fish

ian408 wrote:

I broke down and picked up a 4G microdrive for $140 w/rebate. It's a Hitachi
(nee IBM). So far, I think it's slower than memory but certainly usable. And
as Steve C. suggested a while back, I won't run out of memory so soon

Ian

Don't drop it! :nono

CF cards can take drops...tiny things with flying heads and spinny things can't.

ian408

fish wrote:

Don't drop it! :nono

CF cards can take drops...tiny things with flying heads and spinny things can't.

You probably don't remember the stiction problem IBM had a few years ago.

Let me tell you. A disk can take way more abuse than you might imagine
(assuming it's not spinning at the time).

Ian