Program or system to help with sorting 4400 shots, every weekend?
mattg
Registered Users Posts: 10 Big grins
Hi,
I shoot motorcycle trackdays, and I need a better way to sort my pictures.
Right now, I sort them using folders and the windows XP preview screen. I can do about 5-10 pictures per minute, but with 4400 pictures, that's a lot of time I just don't have.
Aside from taking fewer pictures (I plan to try to cut it down a bit), is there any software out there that can sort based on a number in an image? what about a program that will easily help sort pictures into smaller groups. I usually end up with 100 or so riders, so I have a folder for each of them.
Thanks,
Matt.
I shoot motorcycle trackdays, and I need a better way to sort my pictures.
Right now, I sort them using folders and the windows XP preview screen. I can do about 5-10 pictures per minute, but with 4400 pictures, that's a lot of time I just don't have.
Aside from taking fewer pictures (I plan to try to cut it down a bit), is there any software out there that can sort based on a number in an image? what about a program that will easily help sort pictures into smaller groups. I usually end up with 100 or so riders, so I have a folder for each of them.
Thanks,
Matt.
0
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I'd suggest trying out Photoshop Lightroom. It's got a powerful database-driven index and would let you sort things in a variety of way beyond what you're doing today with folders.
4400 images at 10 images per hour is 440 minutes or 7.33 hours minimum.
About 8 hours processing plus 3-6 hours shooting - I hope you're making a good profit at this.
Both Lightroom and Aperture work very nice at shorting and primping images - not much good for editing, but simple exposure and color balancing are easy.
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A better way to do this would be to use keywords.
You just need a method to quickly assign keywords to the images.
I read a post once where an event photographer for road races had created a program to quickly keyword pictures based on the rider's numbers. Hit a few numbers on the numeric keypad, hit enter and you're onto the next image. 50-60 pictures per minute fast enough for you?
It caught my interest, so I figured out how to do the same. The concept was:
1. For a single rider picture, enter their bib number and press enter to assign the number as the keyword and to automatically advance to the next image.
2. For a multiple rider picture, enter each rider's number separated by a period, then press enter to separately assign each number as a keyword and to automatically advance to the next image.
3. Repeat until you reach the last picture.
All of the above needed to be done w/out taking the fingers off the numeric keypad, which would slow down the process. Fortunately, my image database software (ThumbsPlus) lent itself to this type of automation as all of the above could be done from the keyboard, i.e., full screen view of an image, Ctrl-K to assign a keyword and Space to advance to the next picture. It just needed a little help to allow me to keep the fingers on the numeric keypad.
To solve the problem, I found a free, open-source utility for Windows called AutoHotKey that can automate almost anything by sending keystrokes and mouse clicks.
AutoHotKey is smart. It can read the keyboard input and parse the data, making quick work of the multiple keyword string from #2 above.
It is also uses a very simple language, so to create something like the above shouldn't be too difficult.
You just need to figure out if your software is scriptable. Is it GUI-mouse only or keyboard friendly? If the former, are the screen positions consistent to allow automation of the mouse?
In case anyone made it this far
Good luck.
I don't generate quite that volume regularly, but I can frequently end up with 1000-2000 ina weekend (and am coming up to my monster even that will give me something like 8000 images over 4 days to deal with). I can review, rate, and tag that kind of volume very quickly with IMatch.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I think Aperture would be the best solution here -- it excels at this. However, being on Windows XP you can't run it. I think Lightroom is the second best solution here, not as good at culling as Aperture, but it runs on XP so it's worth a try.
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I don't know that a DAM is really necessary. The DAM is great at letting you find things in a huge volume of photos. The trick is, if you shoot 4000+ shots in one weekend, how many of them are actually "picks?" If it's 100, that's a lot (unless you're trying to sell the shots to the participants themselves, in which case you want a number of keepers for every rider, and you need a DAM for that).
But generally, the "trick" in software that works like this (a la Aperture), is in "How can get from 4000 shots to my 100 keepers as quickly as possible, and end up with photos which are ready to print or publish?" That's a category of software which Aperture for the most part invented and where Lightroom is also an option. Working with Windows Explorer in XP is a very inefficient way to sort this. You want something that can let you compare 30 shots you shot in burst mode on a 1D mark II and find the one that's tack sharp in the right areas and fills the frame.
I agree. And I'm not a big Aperture supporter, but this IS where it shines.
I still say hire an assistant.
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my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
I've heard great things about that app. Not cheap though, eh? (Heh, cheaper than an assistant!)
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
In Lightroom's Library view:
1. In the Keywords field, type the bib number. If you have already entered the number previously, Lightroom should auto-complete it and you should just have to press Enter as soon as the Lightroom auto-completes it. (For auto-complete, press Enter only once; if you press twice you'll exit the field and have to click in it again.)
2. For a multiple rider picture, press the right arrow key to get to the end of the keyword, enter a comma after the number you just entered, and type the next rider's number. Repeat for all riders in the picture, separating their keywords with commas.
3. Press Command-right arrow (Ctrl-right arrow on Windows) to get to the next picture in the library. Lightroom helpfully keeps the keyword field active so you can keep typing.
4. Repeat steps 1-3 until you get to the last picture.
If you get good at this you do not have to take your hands off the keyboard except for anti-carpal-tunnel breaks.
There is also a list of recently used keywords under the Keyword field so that you can just click on them to enter them as an alternative to typing for auto-completion. If the same 3 riders are in the next 6 photos you can also copy and paste 'em into the next images (Command-right arrow, then paste, repeat...)
(Notes and disclaimers: I used to like iView. I do not shoot sports. My biggest shoots are around 300 photos. Also, iView Media Pro is now Microsoft Expression Media, and you should see the reactions to the first Microsoft release...not encouraging.)
If my keeper rate were 2.5%, I'd just stay home
Thanks for sharing. I'm using Lightroom now and didn't realize you could do this. One thing I really like about lightroom is how it assigns hierarchial keywords (i.e., pick a keyword at any level and all keywords from that level up are exported with the image).
I wouldn't hesitate using Lightroom to keyword a 100 pics (I do it all the time), but I wouldn't do it for this job of 4,000 pics.
It might not seem like much, but the time you lose to move from the numeric keypad to the Ctrl-Arrow is significant.
You must not shoot professional sports. The pros that cover sports may take 4000 shots in one GAME, and their aiming for 1 or 2 photos that get published. We're talking representative shots that show something interesting. Note this is a very different use case than someone who is "documenting" a race -- e.g. event photographers who pop a couple shots of everyone that runs by in a 10K and mails proofs and tries to sell an 8x10 at $25. Here it's not that critical to get a good photo -- this is really documentary photography and you're selling to an audience who is interested in a picture of themself participating. They'll buy photos that no SI editor would even throw on a light table.
And it depends on what you consider a "keeper" as well. If you're looking for a portfolio-class image, 1 in 100 would be fantastic, even for something like landscape. If you're talking about shots that are in focus and properly exposed, then sure we're talking about way more than that.
I didn't mention it up-thread, but the post I was referring to used either Photo Mechanic, iView Media Pro or ACDSee Pro as the basis for their effort. I don't remember which one, but seem to recall it being ACDSee Pro as it has the ability to create keyboard shortcuts. Regardless, all of these programs are extremely capable.
Here's another tip for creating a workflow to handle this large of a volume without having to take your fingers off the numeric keypad:
Use the minus key as the keyword for images that you're going to delete. This way you sort (by assigning bib numbers as keywords) and delete (minus for the keyword) at the same time, i.e., you only go through the images once and all of this is done without taking your fingers off the numeric keypad.
No, I don't. I'm with you on everything you wrote, but even though those pros are looking for a few to rise to the top, they're not throwing everything else away either as there are other outlets for them to sell their images.
Too bad the original poster hasn't come back. Looks like we're all having fun without him!
Anyway, ok so if a full-on DAM isn't needed, then on XP my pick would be BreezeBrowser. Very quick for culling & gives you access to IPTC for keywording. I still use it much of the time for culling a large shoot, then transfer the results into my DAM.
For the kind of shooting being done, 2.5% keeper isn't bad. I'm thrilled at 10% for some of that kind of thing. Some of the reduction is burst-shooting a high point in action; you're shooting a bunch of frames knowing only one will get picked--if any, so a built-in low keeper rate there. Isn't digital nice?
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I more responded to the subject title of the thread than to the content of the actual post itself. The OP's needs are to group pictures of 100 different subjects -- so in taking 4000 photos of 100 riders, we're talking an average of 40 shots per rider.
In this case, you're likely going to want 2 or 3 keepers per rider, that you can throw up on a web site as "proofs," where they can later buy prints or large JPEGs (or whatever the delivery format is). Assuming then that you're aiming for 300 "keepers" out of 4000, you would need a ~7.5% "keeper" ratio to give people options. Rough numbers, obviously, but still, this *is* a different use case to looking for a much smaller number of "hero" shots.
I still think something like Aperture or Lightroom would be very helpful in this situation, as they excel at compare and select (Well, Aperture excels at it, and LR is chasing Aperture's tail in this area, but it's the only Windows option at the moment). And for quick editing, many people will feel more comfortable in LR as I noted before.
I haven't used Photo Mechanic, but photojournalists seem to absolutely rave about it. It is not as comprehensive as the other apps, but the one thing it is said to do well is the initial downloading, culling, and keywording process for large shoots.
Not much time lost here. I leave my hand over the keypad and just move my thumb slightly left to depress the right arrow key. But what about the Ctrl key? I am pressing the Ctrl key on the left side of the keyboard with my left hand. Nobody says you have to press both keys with the same hand. Both hands hardly move at all.
I just wish there was a shortcut to get into the keywording panel. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough, anyone know of one?
Note that Lightroom has a shortcut for Reject (press X) so you don't have to use up a keyword for it. Then you can use the Reject flag to instantly include or exclude them from the current listing. Reject is the opposite of the Pick flag (press P), which is a way to mark the keepers. When you're done, Lightroom has a command to delete all Rejects immediately so you don't have to hunt them down with the keyword search or browser first.
The minus key is still a great tip for apps that don't have a Reject capability...I'll have to remember that one!
I wish that too, it is annoying to have to reactivate keywording by dropping the cursor back into the keywording box.
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Thanks for the other tips in Lightroom. I've been slowly figuring out the shortcuts.
Since I handle a much smaller volume of pictures than the original poster (usually around 200-250 shots per game), I'm finding the Compare View pretty useful to weed through the images.
In that view, you can use shortcuts to quickly move through the images (though I'm still struggling with this), e.g.,
1. ensure focus is on right hand window
2. use right arrow to go to next image
3. use up arrow to move right image (candidate) to left panel (selected?)
4. use X to flag images you're not going to keep
When you're done, you can pick the X flag filter to show only the images you want to delete (just an extra sanity check).
Your "sanity check" is something I highly recommend before deleting rejects. It's too easy to press that X key by accident and reject a photo you never meant to reject. I almost lost a keeper or two that way!
This realization was kind of a "holy sh!t" moment for me, as I've already keyworded a ton of images... How are folks dealing with this? Is it possible with any of these programs to have it add quotes upon image export? From what I've read in this post, it doesn't seem like anyone is entering the quotes as they're keywording....
** EDIT: Note that this has been posted in a new topic here. Additionally, I've completed the project via Lightroom (thanks for the tips above!) & wrote some quick javascript that'll fix the issue I'm describing here. Don noticed my other post/blog post about fixing this & said that he's going to look into making a fix. SM Rocks as always!
Oh yeah - here's the gallery with a keyword-driven "Bib Search" that looks for the pics tagged with the runner's numbers: 5k race photos.