helping my dad shop...

Elaine

My dad has decided to relegate his little Canon Powershot ?? to purely underwater (SCUBA) duty and he's in the market for a new DSLR. He was really into photography before I was born and in my younger days...we had a dark room in our house when I was 5. He has taken thousands of shots with his Powershot, many of them really great, but even though he's looking for the flexibility a DSLR has to offer, he did not exhaust the capabilities of his little Canon (he used Auto mode -gasp- most frequently). Well, he did fiddle with settings quite a bit for his underwater stuff, just not on land!

OK...all this to say that he would be wanting/needing a somewhat entry-level DSLR. Neither of us like the ergonomics of the Rebel...disliked enough to not buy it. As much as he thought he'd like to stick with Canon just because that's what he's been using, I've steered him towared the Nikon D80, which is what I would get if I were starting over again (I love my KM 5D...but Minolta is no longer :cry ). Am I right to think that after the Rebel would come the 20D, with a considerable jump in price and size? If it doesn't really matter which brand (between Canon or Nikon), and we're looking for entry-level pricing but powerful enough to really grow and better-than-Rebel ergonomics, what would you choose?

If you made it to the end...thanks for sticking with me!

Elaine

ziggy53

Elaine,

FWIW and very much IMHO,

Nikon and Pentax have the most traditional user interface in their entry level cameras. The Nikon D80 is a very good choice, and in many ways just as capable as the Nikon D200, just not as responsive.

The Canon 20D/30D are more traditional in layout than the dRebel series, and you have access to a very usable ISO 3200 on the 20D/30D. The 30D also has somewhat better auto-focus section and a true spot metering that makes it worth the money, (again, IMHO.)

Canon and Nikon have the most expansive lens lineups, but there are good third-party lenses available for almost all the major manufacturers.

If electronic flash sophistication and automation are your emphasis, then I think Nikon has the edge with the i-TTL, followed by the Canon E-TTL II and Pentax P-TTL.

The Olympus cameras are close to delivering the E-410 and E-510 models which could be direct competition to the other 10MP cameras, but with a live image preview and the best anti-dust system in the business (maybe).

In short, the choices have never been more interesting, or exhausting. I would personally recommend staying with either Canon or Nikon for general photography, just because the new and used lens market for these manufacturers yields the broadest selection for users, and because of the accuracy of their electronic flash systems. If low light, high-ISO, is important, then Canon is the current leader, if only by a small margin.

Elaine

No suggestions, huh? Even a simple..."have ya looked at this one" would be fine. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. In my mind, there's the Rebel, then the 20d or 30d OR the Nikon D70s or D80. I know we don't want the new Nikon D40, but are those really the only options right now in the somewhat entry-level DSLR lines?

EDIT: Woops! Posted this at the same time as Ziggy's reply! Thanks Ziggy!!!

Elaine

ziggy53 wrote:

Elaine,

FWIW and very much IMHO,

Nikon and Pentax have the most traditional user interface in their entry level cameras. The Nikon D80 is a very good choice, and in many ways just as capable as the Nikon D200, just not as responsive.

The Canon 20D/30D are more traditional in layout than the dRebel series, and you have access to a very usable ISO 3200 on the 20D/30D. The 30D also has somewhat better auto-focus section and a true spot metering that makes it worth the money, (again, IMHO.)

Canon and Nikon have the most expansive lens lineups, but there are good third-party lenses available for almost all the major manufacturers.

If electronic flash sophistication and automation are your emphasis, then I think Nikon has the edge with the i-TTL, followed by the Canon E-TTL II and Pentax P-TTL.

The Olympus cameras are close to delivering the E-410 and E-510 models which could be direct competition to the other 10MP cameras, but with a live image preview and the best anti-dust system in the business (maybe).

In short, the choices have never been more interesting, or exhausting. I would personally recommend staying with either Canon or Nikon for general photography, just because the new and used lens market for these manufacturers yields the broadest selection for users, and because of the accuracy of their electronic flash systems. If low light, high-ISO, is important, then Canon is the current leader, if only by a small margin.

Thanks! This was a helpful synopsis!

Elaine

Seymore

Elaine wrote:

No suggestions, huh? Even a simple..."have ya looked at this one" would be fine.

From my experience/reading, you'll hear from both camps when it gets down to it. This can be more confusing. My thoughts... find a local camera shop that has all the models you're looking for and plan an afternoon at one handling all the models available. I've found that each person is different in what they want and a hands-on approach can usually allow you to see all of what's available.

Good luck...

Scott_Quier

I don't think you'll get a much more complete/concise synopsis of the current market than what Ziggy has supplied.

So, what I offer is must MHO - I've used the dRebel (300D) and found the system start-up and buffer speed lacking. OK, that's old technology, but it does help to set a lower limit.

I've not even handled the XTi or the 400D.

I have a copy of the 20D and 30D. They are very similar (as suggested by Ziggy), but the 30D wins it, hands down, over the 20D for one additional reason. My vision is corrected for distance and my eyes are old enough that they don't close focus as well as they used to. The larger LCD is a BIG plus! Something to really consider when/if you are trying to decide between the 20D and the 30D (or something else with a smaller LCD).

System start-up is something that is, for the most part, over-come. But you may need to consider buffer through-put, especially with larger sensors.