The Open Vote question

Andy

cdhames wrote:

Shay, you are contradicting yourself with each statement. I wonder if you are justifying your reasons for the simple reason that justification must be made.

I find this statement most unsettling. Shay volunteers his time on this contest so you and the rest of the participants can benefit. We encourage free talk here - in fact, we thrive on it. But let's respect the efforts put forth by those that are putting in tremendous numbers of hours each week, for zero compensation, for your benefit.

cdhames

Andy, I find his justification unsettling. Shay's a big boy and can handle criticizm. He dishes it out equally, just read his last statement about "not for the squemish"

Andy

cdhames wrote:

Andy, I find his justification unsettling. Shay's a big boy and can handle criticizm. He dishes it out equally, just read his last statement about "not for the squemish"

He can take it. But I find what you are doing to be ungrateful.

DJ-S1

DoctorIt wrote:

well sh*t. all these years I thought that was a moderator-only feature!

ooooh! And DocIT gets a standing 8-count!

Shay Stephens

This has the feel of the endless arguments about what the definition of a pro is. Is this a contest of photography or is it a contest of favorite artist?

I answer that question with this link, that I leave to your own interpretation.

And some thoughts on consistency:
Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead.
Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) British author.

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Irish poet and dramatist.


I would much prefer to be a little inconsistent and keep people on their toes and nimble to change rather than lull them to drowsiness. Why? I want people to be able to handle a client that is anything but a consistent and predictable target to please. Clients can be far more fickle than this contest. But at least this contest (including perceived flaws) gives a foretaste, exercises some needed mental muscles, and prepares one for the challenge.

Even if you never intend to take on clients, being nimble is always a good mental exercise.

cdhames wrote:

Shay, you are contradicting yourself with each statement. I wonder if you are justifying your reasons for the simple reason that justification must be made. Is this a contest of photography, or one of favorite artist? You argue both points equally, yet really give no valid reason for it. Morality and Fun are respectable foundations for any contest but they are superficial dressings and I believe, meant to be such in business. They are for outside appearance.

I think you've built this contest backwards. A rigerous, and somewhat flexible ruleset should be your bedrock, with honest voting your woodwork and the Fireworks and Blam your paintbrush.

cdhames

Andy wrote:

He can take it. But I find what you are doing to be ungrateful.

Alright Andy. I will cease to criticize Open Voting, but I want to say one thing. There has been no name-calling. No slurs, or insults, and no cursing on my part, or any other that I've seen. There has only been pointed debate. If I'm not allowed to be critical about your projects here, without personal feelings involved that you expressed above, then there are more problems here that what this topic began as. I won't post anymore on the subject.

Shay Stephens

cdhames wrote:

There has been no name-calling. No slurs, or insults, and no cursing on my part, or any other that I've seen. There has only been pointed debate.

Which has been a pleasure and I thank you for that

DoctorIt

cdhames wrote:

Shay, you are contradicting yourself with each statement.

Do you know how many times we've been asked the same question? I hate to break the news to you, but every "pointed" debate issue you've raised has come and gone at least twice.

Sure Shay doesn't answer the same exact way everytime. His job is to inject the life and flare into this competition, he directs his answers at the one posing the question.

My job, as the mechanic, is to point out to you that the rules for this contest are quite long and rather intricate. In fact, it took us a good two weeks of discussion to get the majority of people here comfortable with them. I won't mention how long it took the moderator team to write them up to the rather polished state I believe they are in now. And also, they've been the same since day 1.

Shay has said it over and over again: this isn't your cut and dry photo competition. Sealed ballots, anonimity, etc, those are all things we did differently on purpose. So thanks again for the debate, but try to look beyond what you expect and try to see LPS for what it is, something very different.

nikos

The problem is that...
Complaints are directly proportional to the prizes; one goes up due to the other.

Shays guidelines for voting are cleverly simple -- almost fullproof. I followed his guidelines to the "T" and the author of each entry didn't become relevant to me until I had to finally submit my votes with author & entry names at the end.

I give Shay lots of credit for his clean, systematic approach to this contest and his keen focus to keep things in line. He does not have an easy task and I for one would not want to be in his shoes at times like these since I know that I would not be able to keep the cool demeanor that he does.

Contests are supposed to be fun. This is a great contest that is NEW (with the prizes) here on DGrin and if there are any kinks, I'm sure DGrin personnel will iron them out in the next LPS. As for this contest, you willingly joined knowing the rules and judging format so it's only fair to let it end without the unwarranted complaints.

Nikos

cabbey

ballot stuffing is dumb

tsk1979 wrote:

From what I know of vbull I don't think the moderators have a way of finding out who voted for whom.

They do. At least they should... I'm not a mod on dgrin, but another vBull system I was a mod on had it. (Manual says it's still there.)

So how do you prevent somebody from making 5 ids and voting in his/her favor?
Is there any check on such kind of fraud etc.,?

vBull has a few ways to do it. My personal favorite method requires SQL access to the backend database.

tsk1979

cabbey wrote:

They do. At least they should... I'm not a mod on dgrin, but another vBull system I was a mod on had it. (Manual says it's still there.)

Only public votes, not anonymous ones. The voting here is not visible to everyone.

vBull has a few ways to do it. My personal favorite method requires SQL access to the backend database.

OK now we are talking. Thats admins job, not mods.
I for one prefer votes to be public. It would make the contest really open.

Andy

cdhames wrote:

Alright Andy. I will cease to criticize Open Voting, but I want to say one thing. There has been no name-calling. No slurs, or insults, and no cursing on my part, or any other that I've seen. There has only been pointed debate. If I'm not allowed to be critical about your projects here, without personal feelings involved that you expressed above, then there are more problems here that what this topic began as. I won't post anymore on the subject.

We're happy for criticism.. but please temper it with a dose of reality, that 100% of the people will never be pleased. And factor in too, that this contest is run and handled by guys who volunteer their time. That's all I'm trying to say. Carry on, but I do believe your point has been made, and we really thank you for that.

sunione

3 questions
Andy, in regard to the LPS (not open) judging, I am curious:

1) Do the judges see the names of the entry shooters at any time before the judging is complete?

2) Are they 'forbidden' from peeking at the entries prior to the judging?

3) What criteria did you set for choosing the judges?

wxwax

Good grief.

Shay Stephens

sunione wrote:

Andy, in regard to the LPS (not open) judging, I am curious:

1) Do the judges see the names of the entry shooters at any time before the judging is complete?

2) Are they 'forbidden' from peeking at the entries prior to the judging?

3) What criteria did you set for choosing the judges?

1) The judges have access to and see everything you do as a participant.

2) They are not forbidden from anything. They are encouraged however not to make comments in the threads asking for feedback prior to the contest closing. I don't want want participants relying on judges feedback prior to their submission.

I tend to stay away from the comment threads and entry thread. Mainly because I have seen too many times when an awesome photo someone submits scares them and they fall back to a safer photo. It hurts to see that loss and I try to hide from the pain hehehe.

3) The criteria I set in choosing a judge is simple. I look at a prospective judges work. If I see something that impresses me, I add them to my list of people to call on. I basically look for interesting photography, post processing skills, or an fresh/interesting view on a familiar subject (quirky even). Occasionally such criteria leads to some turbulent moments with a judge, but by and large it works out very well.

This is the PM I send out to prospective judges:

Would you like to be a guest judge?
Hi!
I would like to extend the offer to be a guest judge for the next "Last Photographer Standing" contest. If you are interested, let me know. You would have to sit out the qualifying round in order to judge it, however it will not disqualify you for any other qualifying round, semifinal, or grand finale. And you will get some billing as a guest judge.

The judging would take place on Monday xxx xxx. You would need to pick your top ten photos and rank them 1-10. The only judging guidelines are those you place on yourself. You have a great eye and I trust it. If you would like to accept, decline, or ask questions, just let me know.

Thank you,
Shay Stephens

As mentioned at the outset of the contest, people asking to become a judge or otherwise actively trying to be chosen as a judge will disqualify themselves from being a judge. Invitations are a tap on the shoulder type of of affair only.