Nice pan shots?

ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
edited February 13, 2005 in Technique
I want a lesson in shooting nice pan shots.

This was the best I got yestderday when I tried:

15619918-L.jpg

I stopped down the lens and slowed down the shutter and tried to follow the skier as he skated around the corner. I sort of like the result, but it isn't at all what I had in mind. I was using my 70-200 F2.8L IS at 70mm 1/30th f18. I had the stabalizer turned off. Perhaps I should have had it enabled and set to mode 2? But I bet that isn't the whole story.
If not now, when?

Comments

  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    I was using my 70-200 F2.8L IS at 70mm 1/30th f18. I had the stabalizer turned off. Perhaps I should have had it enabled and set to mode 2? But I bet that isn't the hole story.

    I'm not an expert, but I play one on the net. 1drink.gif

    Yes, you should enable IS mode 2 and you need a much faster shutter speed than 1/30. Even if your panning speed is spot on, 1/30th is going to give you all kinds of motion blur.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Registered Users Posts: 3,165 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    I want a lesson in shooting nice pan shots.

    This was the best I got yestderday when I tried:



    I stopped down the lens and slowed down the shutter and tried to follow the skier as he skated around the corner. I sort of like the result, but it isn't at all what I had in mind. I was using my 70-200 F2.8L IS at 70mm 1/30th f18. I had the stabalizer turned off. Perhaps I should have had it enabled and set to mode 2? But I bet that isn't the whole story.
    When it comes to panning there are some techniques that will help. The shutter speed used is determined by how far away the subject is and how fast you will be panning. You want a streaked background, but not too streaked. I don't have a good rule of thumb for this, it will just take some trial and error to determine the right shutter speed.

    The other thing is panning and keeping the subject sharp enough. This is where two things come into play. Practice, and burst shooting.

    Practice. It takes some technique development (not a lot but some) to keep the camera trained on the subject accurately enough. IS mode 2 can help, but it is not a requirement.

    Burst shooting. Take a burst shot. The more frames you have the better the chances of success that one of them will be sharp enough on the subject.

    Here are two recent examples from a trip to Disneyland:
    img_8171.jpg
    F/5.6 - 1/13th of a second - ISO 200


    img_8113.jpg
    This one has a similar amount of blur but the speed was higher so a faster shutter speed was usable: f/5.6 - 1/50th of a second - ISO 100
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • dkappdkapp Registered Users Posts: 985 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    I want a lesson in shooting nice pan shots.

    This was the best I got yestderday when I tried:

    15619918-S.jpg

    I stopped down the lens and slowed down the shutter and tried to follow the skier as he skated around the corner. I sort of like the result, but it isn't at all what I had in mind. I was using my 70-200 F2.8L IS at 70mm 1/30th f18. I had the stabalizer turned off. Perhaps I should have had it enabled and set to mode 2? But I bet that isn't the whole story.

    I see what you were trying to do with this. It is a tough shot to pull off, but I think your off to a great start.

    I don't know much about the sport, but does the body remain pretty still as they move?

    Sorry I can't give any words of advice, but your going the right direction.

    Dave
    http://analog.lifekapptured.com (photoblog)
    http://www.lifekapptured.com (gallery)
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    dkapp wrote:
    I see what you were trying to do with this. It is a tough shot to pull off, but I think your off to a great start.

    I don't know much about the sport, but does the body remain pretty still as they move?

    Sorry I can't give any words of advice, but your going the right direction.

    Dave
    Think running (especially sprinting) or speed skating. This is a very fast sport and the arms and legs move rhythmically. The torso is relativly still. Itt would be great to be able to get sharp faces and then the rest would just be what it was.
    If not now, when?
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    I cross posted on FM sports center and got what seems like a great piece of advice. Thought I'd be a conduit for the dgrinners:
    [font=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I think it would help to have the IS turned on. With the Nikon version of this lens, the lens will know that you are panning. [/font]
    [font=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
    [font=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] You seem to have gotten quite a bit of blur in the BG at 1/30th. I would probably say that 1/30th would be about the low end of what you might expect to shoot at and have something come out. You will get some blur at 1/60th. The other thing you have to take into account when panning people, like runners etc, is that their motion is not simple linear motion, like something on wheels. People are not just moving in a side to side direction, but usually move up and down too. This makes it hard to get perfect pans all of the time.[/font]
    [font=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
    [font=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] One way to get a cool effect when panning like this is to do it with a little bit of fill flash. Set up the amount of flash you want, and then set the camera for rear curtain (Nikon) or second curtain (Canon) flash. Make the shutter speed somewhere between 1/15th and 1/30th. You will get the blur but the flash will help stop the subject. [/font]
    [font=Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
    If not now, when?
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    I cross posted on FM sports center and got what seems like a great piece of advice. Thought I'd be a conduit for the dgrinners:
    garsh...that sounds like what I posted. :)
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    fish wrote:
    garsh...that sounds like what I posted. :)
    It was the part about the fill flash that I had a hard time decoding in your post.
    If not now, when?
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited February 10, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    It was the part about the fill flash that I had a hard time decoding in your post.
    oh...sorry. it was in an invisible font. hang on a sec and I'll go back and change the font to a visible one. :uhoh




    lol3.gif
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited February 10, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    It was the part about the fill flash that I had a hard time decoding in your post.


    I think the suggestion of second shutter fill flash is very worthwhile for shooting x country skiers like you are, John. I used second shutter flash for my entry for Challenge 31. Second shutter flash with a prolonged exposure - 1/8 - 1/30th seconds should blur the background nicely while keeping the subject sharp.

    And folks who do not understand why you are doing it, will give you the starngest looks as they wonder why you are using flash with a pro camera in broad daylight :D
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    Some progress...
    15752015-L.jpg

    I cross posted this question on FM and provoked a flurry of responses and some heat between people with different panning techniques. Also some really nice shots posted. See http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/182202/2#1487805

    Anyway, I distilled it down to a few lessons I could actually use. Much shorter focal length (40mm). Much faster shutter speed (1/80). And I tried to remember what little I once knew about shooting birds with a shot gun. (Follow the bird, catch up, pull the trigger just as you pass his head, follow through.) Now I could wish for a more striking subject, but one step at a time.
    If not now, when?
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    Wish I'd read this thread before setting out this morning. I tried to motion bluer cyclists at a time trial. I'm still at work, and haven't seen the shots on a computer... but judging by the display on the camera, I too have blurry subjects. umph.gif

    I've had success panning in the past, thought I knew what I was doing. I used the 16-35, manual, shutter speed 1/160. Looks like everything is blurry. :cry It's possible that I have the autofocus set-up wrong, that may be part of the problem (shaddup, Fish :bluduh)

    Shay said one thing that really rings a bell: every change in lens, subject speed and subject distance also changes the equation.

    Here's hoping my camera is lying, and that at least one cyclist is in focus. :uhoh
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    wxwax wrote:
    Wish I'd read this thread before setting out this morning. I tried to motion bluer cyclists at a time trial. I'm still at work, and haven't seen the shots on a computer... but judging by the display on the camera, I too have blurry subjects
    You'll really want to read the FM thread as well as this one. It has a lot more technical details. Maybe too many to absorb all at once, but there is an entertaining competition of technical prowess going on there.
    If not now, when?
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    Well, these are the best that I could muster. The rest of the meager gallery is here.

    15768187-L.jpg


    15768473-L.jpg


    15765849-L.jpg
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    Sid, I think you did better than I did. I got behind the skier, but you were leading. Seems much better to have some space in front than in back.
    If not now, when?
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited February 12, 2005
    wxwax wrote:
    Well, these are the best that I could muster. The rest of the meager gallery is here.

    15768187-S.jpg


    15768473-S.jpg


    15765849-S.jpg

    Sid - Were you shooting single frame or were you shooting multiple frame with your camera? Might be easier for bikes with the multiple highspeed frames mode? Not really tried this tho.... Well, I did use the high speed frame rate for some images of an F-16 in a high speed turn - then all you have to do is pan, rather than pan and try to time your shot...
    :Dne_nau.gifne_nau.gif
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • tmlphototmlphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,444 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    10409793-L.jpg
    This is my only really sucessful panning shot to date. A little luck never hurts.:) :):)
    Thomas :D

    TML Photography
    tmlphoto.com
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2005
    Hey rutt...I'm glad you took my advice. It seems to be working okay. :jose


    Am I alone in thinking that extreme bicycle riders wear really goofy costumes? rolleyes1.gif


    9616-L-1.jpg
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2005
    pathfinder wrote:
    Sid - Were you shooting single frame or were you shooting multiple frame with your camera? Might be easier for bikes with the multiple highspeed frames mode? Not really tried this tho.... Well, I did use the high speed frame rate for some images of an F-16 in a high speed turn - then all you have to do is pan, rather than pan and try to time your shot...
    :Dne_nau.gifne_nau.gif

    Gatling Gun Mode. :D I started the bullets flying when the cyclists were too far away. But they close in so fast. :uhoh

    I think I just had to much camera motion that wasn't in the horizontal plane. I like the one tip I saw in the FM thread - turn with your hips. It's like golf - move the bigger muscle groups, they're more stable.

    I also wonder if the autofocus had a harder time in the shadows? ne_nau.gif
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2005
    rutt wrote:
    Sid, I think you did better than I did. I got behind the skier, but you were leading. Seems much better to have some space in front than in back.

    I tried to leave a lot of space. But these are all crops. :D

    One thing I've consistently found when shooting sports - it's very challenging to properly frame a fast moving subject. You really do need to practice it a lot. Otherwise, the space is in the wrong part of the frame, or you've cut off bits you wanted.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited February 13, 2005
    wxwax wrote:
    I also wonder if the autofocus had a harder time in the shadows? ne_nau.gif
    More than likely, it does. I have learned to quickly restart the AF cycle
    (even when shooting AI). If I have a question about focus, I start over.

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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