I'm a bit confused .

WildWally · June 2, 2007

On these LPS contests , why do many post several pictures , often more than 3 , and then ask which 1 should be entered in the contest ?? Is'nt this missing the whole point of haveing a contest ? What the entrant sees in his composition shoul be what matters , not the opinion of others
(Except for the judges that is :wink )
Compare it to being in school .
You have an essay on writing , let's say , what you feel/see on a certain subject matter .
What do you think the teacher would do if you come up to him with 5 or 6 different essays and ask him which 1 does he think would get an A ??
You get my point ???
Anyways , just thought I would give a thought on the contest text .
I know , if and when I enter a photo , it will surely be a surprise , and not something someone else thinks is good enough , but what "I" feel/see in the photo ..
Anyone understand ?
Thanks for reading .
"Walt":D

Shay Stephens · June 2, 2007

Well there are at least two trains of thought here. One, the idea you are talking about of the lone woodsman, and secondly the one where you want to make rapid progress of an idea or concept and so solicit as much feedback as you can get. Both have their pluses and minuses, as do most choices in life. So pick your poison hehehe.

Just don't try to deny the choice to others just because you have a preferred path

Shay Stephens · June 2, 2007

WildWally wrote:

Compare it to being in school .
You have an essay on writing , let's say , what you feel/see on a certain subject matter .
What do you think the teacher would do if you come up to him with 5 or 6 different essays and ask him which 1 does he think would get an A ??
You get my point ???

Second thoughts...
When you have a writting assignment, don't many people get it proof read by others before they turn in the final draft?

LiquidAir · June 2, 2007

I'd say take a look at the feedback people are giving in this forum and decide for yourself whether you think it is worth something. Personally, when I am trying to put together my best shot I use every tool available and there are some excellent eyes commenting on shots in this forum. I have found that there is actually a lot of skill involved both in effectively soliciting feedback and putting to use what you get. By no means do I feel like I am relinquishing editorial control by asking for advice.

Nikolai · June 2, 2007

It's called "friendly competition". Dgrin special.

richtersl · June 2, 2007

I'm in total agreement with Ken on this. I've learned a lot from ideas and advice that people have given me and others. If you look at some of these threads, there's a ton (and I mean a TON) of support that people give each other for these competitions.

I work as a techical writer and I always ask for a 2nd or 3rd set of eyes to read through a manual that I've written prior to releasing it. When I'm trying to decide which photos to select for a local exhibit, I ask my husband or one of my friends what they think of my choices.

Having several sets of eyes look at something before you submit a final product is never a bad thing. Multiple sets of eyes will always spot something you've missed.

But in the end, I still have the final say over what stays in a document or which photos go into an exhibit.

NanaMo · June 3, 2007

Hear ye, hear ye! I agree with all of the above!

When I do anything that has to be presented to the public I ask for a 2nd or 3rd or 4th opinion depending on the project. I had the good fortune as a newbee to post one of my pictures and get some very valuable feedback.

In fact, I was fortunate to make the first cut and feel that those who made the suggestions also deserve credit for their time and effort in supporting me. As Nik said "It's called "friendly competition". Dgrin special.

" Shay, Linda and LiquidAir also had some wonderful thoughts also.

It truly is nice to take the leap and put your potential entry out there and get feedback. Even if it is the photo you chose and people love it you may hear .....change the contrast, crop yaddy yaddy out of the picture, put something in there for scale etc etc.....YOU in the end are the decider!!

So slugger, relax and enjoy the competition and if you wish to do it alone goferit if you wish to get some opinions...we would be delighted to do so!

rofl

So....show us your stuff! We are looking forward to seeing your entry...either in a thread or in the entry thread.

thumb

Maureen

BistiArt · June 3, 2007

some advice is worth way more than two cents

WildWally wrote:

On these LPS contests , why do many post several pictures

Walt…

On Linda's winding road entries, two of us took a look. I had already downloaded files and cropped so I asked an opinion "Do you like the original or the crop better?"
This individual has a very sharp eye and is an independent thinker. Some good answers emerged...
I rarely feel in gaining new insight when I go through this double helix...

You might choose to give it a try... or not...

fashiznitsngrins · June 3, 2007

WildWally wrote:

...
Compare it to being in school .
You have an essay on writing , let's say , what you feel/see on a certain subject matter.
What do you think the teacher would do if you come up to him with 5 or 6 different essays and ask him which 1 does he think would get an A ??

"Walt":D

I think the difference is that we are not showing options to the teachers (judges) and asking their opinion, but rather that of fellow classmates (entrants) and asking for their feedback...

Tessa HD · June 3, 2007

Hi Walt, that's a good question, and one that I pondered myself, especially worrying that I might place myself at a disadvantage somehow.

There are already excellent comments above. What put me over to the side of asking for presubmission critique is this: 1. I've seen entries that would quite possibly have made it to the top 10 had they simply asked for someone else's opinion and made a minor enhancement or two. 2. I work for an accounting firm, and the professional standard is that your work is reviewed at least twice before it's released. So I asked myself, why not with other things, i.e. photography, artwork, life decisions, etc. I don't believe I'm compromising myself, I just want make sure to dot i and cross the t.

If you've seen 'harsh' comments, like "that does nothing for me"; "it's not good enough", (or whatever) that's only because of the familiarity that some have with each other knowing they've done better. Sometimes we need a cheerleader, sometimes we need a coach. There are both here.

I look forward to seeing your entry, whether it's a surprise or not!

Tessa

Smashtoad · June 3, 2007

Here Be Dragons
I'd say I'm with the original poster on this...there really is no consensus in art until the judging begins...and photography is art.

If you have to ask for the opinions of others...chances are the shot isn't good enough to win against the talent I've seen displayed here, for...here be dragons.

WildWally · June 3, 2007

All very good comments on my above post .
I in no way was trying to say that it is wrong to post several pictures and ask for critique , and trust me , if I was to go at something alone , I would fall flat on my belly

I guess I got the idea that this was a VERY serious competition , and being so , posting several pictures for critique about which should go into the contest , would take away from what the individual would be seeing in his/her own eyes , and might sway away from what THEY feel was the perfect picture .
I just found it strange as I am new to this forum .
Maybe it's because I hung around DPReview too long , and have seen way too many internet-wars

:crazy
I have a lot to learn about photography , and would definately fall into the help me category .

As for my entrants , it probably be A LONG TIME before I get a photo that I think will be good enough , let-alone anyone else thinks it might !!!!!

Anyways , I hope to make friends here , as it seems like a very close-knit forum with very helpful people ,
(I should know , Barb has helped me immensely !!!)

Sorry if I came off as ignorant about the LPS contests , it was not meant to .

"Walt"

cabbey · June 3, 2007

fashiznitsngrins wrote:

I think the difference is that we are not showing options to the teachers (judges) and asking their opinion, but rather that of fellow classmates (entrants) and asking for their feedback...

When I took Photography classes in college this is exactly what we did... in the darkroom we were constantly asking each other's opinions of works. "What does this shot say to you?" "Do you think if I burnt the background in a bit it would make the subject pop more?" "Does this look like it needs more time in the dektol?" "Did your prints come out pink too? Maybe it's time to change the rinse tray...."

And just like back in the lab then... there are folks here who have done work I deeply admire and who's feedback is worth a lot more to me than $0.02, and there are folks that have done... not so good... who's feedback is less interesting to me (but still welcome).

Getting a second set of eyes on an image can also be very usefull for getting perspective on your work. I'll never forget the night in the lab when someone asked me what I thought of the portrait he had been working on for a couple hours... trying to get the skin tones printed just right. He just about weeped when I answered that "it's a lovely print, of a beautiful young lady... but the crusty hanging out of her nose kinda ruins it for me." Several hours he'd been at the englarger and doing test prints of various areas, and making masks to dodge/burn various areas to get a good print. Never had he looked close enough to see what everyone else in the lab saw immediately. (As they say, "Love blinds". That's part of the reason we were *highly* discouraged from using family, or significant others, in assignments.)

cabbey · June 3, 2007

WildWally wrote:

I guess I got the idea that this was a VERY serious competition

It's hard to be serious when you're grinnin' as much as we do around here.

The only thing really serious around here is the quality of the folks on the boards.

I just found it strange as I am new to this forum.

Welcome to dgrin, come on in and sit a spell.

Maybe it's because I hung around DPReview too long

heh, yeah. This ain't DPReview. Thankfully

Tessa HD · June 4, 2007

I think there are several here that used to be at dpreview, me included.

Tessa

Shay Stephens · June 4, 2007

Tessa HD wrote:

I think there are several here that used to be at dpreview, me included.

Tessa

That's true, I used to hang out in the Sony Talk Forum at dpreview all the time. But it was too hardware centric for me, too much fanboy culture for me. Dgrin has been the perfect mix for me.

richtersl · June 4, 2007

Shay Stephens wrote:

That's true, I used to hang out in the Sony Talk Forum at dpreview all the time. But it was too hardware centric for me, too much fanboy culture for me. Dgrin has been the perfect mix for me.

I also used to post there, mostly at the Kodak and Olympus forums. It was OK at times, but other times people just stepped on each others' egos and things got a bit crazy. There were some nice folks there at the time but I like the mix here much better.

Tentacion · June 4, 2007

richtersl wrote:

I work as a techical writer and I always ask for a 2nd or 3rd set of eyes to read through a manual that I've written prior to releasing it. When I'm trying to decide which photos to select for a local exhibit, I ask my husband or one of my friends what they think of my choices.

Having several sets of eyes look at something before you submit a final product is never a bad thing. Multiple sets of eyes will always spot something you've missed.

Totally Understand! I am a technical writer in the aviation field, and trust me, it's so easy to miss something when your eyes are dogged tired! Although, I usually have someone else proof read to eliminate the error margin (typos, alignment, wrong regulation reference).

In photography, it is your final say what you think you should post, no matter as to the opinions/critiques of others, UNLESS they hit on something you were wondering about in the first place.

I think people ask for critique cuz they feel that something is missing and want to see if someone else sees that same something, cuz you wouldn't submit it for critique if it didn't need fixin'. You only bring items to the repair shop when it needs mendin', repairin' or a cleanup.

I'm a bit confused .

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