580EX: High Speed Sync question

Nikolai

Is there any reason not to use high speed sync on 580EX (on 30D) as a defaut mode?
I mean, except for the cases when you use stroboscopic effect or actually need a "slow" flash?
TIA!

Richard

Nikolai wrote:

Is there any reason not to use high speed sync on 580EX (on 30D) as a defaut mode?
I mean, except for the cases when you use stroboscopic effect or actually need a "slow" flash?
TIA!

Good question, Nik. I have wondered about that as well. I suspect it uses more power than normal mode, but I am speculating.

Ziggy????

pathfinder

Nik,

Basically, that is what I tend to do.

There are a couple of minor downsides to using High Speed Synch though. Since the flash pulses repetitively, there will be more use/wear on the flash tube - not sure how much this really matters though. Maybe more battery drainage also, but Lithium AAs last a long time anyway.

The total light intensity is slightly less, so if you need every lumen you can get, it is better to avoid HSS, but then if you really need every lumen, try a slower shutter speed, right?! One bright pulse is brighter than several lesser pulses.

Those are the two main considerations that I am aware of, Nik.

Nikolai

Jim,

pathfinder wrote:

Nik,

Basically, that is what I tend to do.

There are a couple of minor downsides to using High Speed Synch though. Since the flash pulses repetitively, there will be more use/wear on the flash tube - not sure how much this really matters though. Maybe more battery drainage also, but Lithium AAs last a long time anyway.

The total light intensity is slightly less, so if you need every lumen you can get, it is better to avoid HSS, but then if you really need every lumen, try a slower shutter speed, right?! One bright pulse is brighter than several lesser pulses.

Those are the two main considerations that I am aware of, Nik.

Thank you very much, appreciate the info!

ziggy53

According to this source,

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index.html#fp

... which seems to be my experience as well, the FP/HSS mode produces 33% less light than "normal" flash operation. I view that as a serious impediment, that is also pretty unnecessary. The FP mode is so easy to set on the 580EX, I'm not sure why you would want to leave it there permanently?

Pity me, the Sigma EF-500 DG Super flash user, who has to go through menus to set the FP mode. :cry (I'm joking. It's not that bad. )

Nikolai

ziggy53 wrote:

According to this source,

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index.html#fp

... which seems to be my experience as well, the FP/HSS mode produces 33% less light than "normal" flash operation. I view that as a serious impediment, that is also pretty unnecessary. The FP mode is so easy to set on the 580EX, I'm not sure why you would want to leave it there permanently?

Pity me, the Sigma EF-500 DG Super flash user, who has to go through menus to set the FP mode. :cry (I'm joking. It's not that bad. )

Ziggy,

tahnk you so much, what a great link!
Now I understand how it works and hence all the implications!
I'm so glad I asked

pathfinder

I guess I thought everyone was familiar with the EOS flash link that Ziggy posted. They are excellent and where I learned all I know about the EOS system flashes.

From your link, Ziggy, and I quote

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]When you have FP mode engaged you typically get about a third less range. With a powerful flash unit like the 580EX this may not be a big problem than you would if you were shooting with normal flash. , particularly if your flash subject is fairly close to you. But this loss of range could be a serious impediment if you’re using a smaller flash unit (eg: the tiny 220EX), if the subject is far away, or if you’re using slow film. Of course, if you’re using FP mode simply for a little fill flash (rather than relying on it to illuminate your subject) then this loss of range shouldn’t be a huge problem."

This is in accordance with my experience, that shooting for fill, HSS has never been a problem. If shooting using the strobe as the main light for a group it certainly could be. ( Much of my flash use is for macro, so there is just is not a problem.)

He goes on to say that HSS does NOT work well to stop motion - eg high speed sports for instance, due to the nature of HSS beign multiple flashes as opposed to a single burst of light that stops perceived motion.
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ziggy53

pathfinder wrote:

I guess I thought everyone was familiar with the EOS flash link that Ziggy posted. They are excellent and where I learned all I know about the EOS system flashes.

From your link, Ziggy, and I quote

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]When you have FP mode engaged you typically get about a third less range. With a powerful flash unit like the 580EX this may not be a big problem than you would if you were shooting with normal flash. , particularly if your flash subject is fairly close to you. But this loss of range could be a serious impediment if you’re using a smaller flash unit (eg: the tiny 220EX), if the subject is far away, or if you’re using slow film. Of course, if you’re using FP mode simply for a little fill flash (rather than relying on it to illuminate your subject) then this loss of range shouldn’t be a huge problem."

This is in accordance with my experience, that shooting for fill, HSS has never been a problem. If shooting using the strobe as the main light for a group it certainly could be. ( Much of my flash use is for macro, so there is just is not a problem.)

He goes on to say that HSS does NOT work well to stop motion - eg high speed sports for instance, due to the nature of HSS beign multiple flashes as opposed to a single burst of light that stops perceived motion.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Hi Jim,

Truth be known, I might have learned those links from you. clap

The question I have is, what possible advantage would using HSS/FP mode provide at normal flash sync shutter speeds?

If you were in a situation where jumping back and forth between normal sync and HSS/FP modes might mean confusion and possibly mistaking a photo with the flash in the wrong mode, I could understand because that's happened to me. :cry

Thanks,

pathfinder

The advantage that HSS offers, when shooting in Manual mode or Av, is that you are not limited to a shutter speed no faster than 1/200th or so. If the light gets brighter - the sun comes out for instance, you can raise the shutter speed up to 1/1000th or whatever is needed. IF shooting in Av mode the camera is not limited to a max of 1/250th. The inablility of the camera to raise the shutter speed up by the flash can contribute to overexposure in bright sunlight.

If you do not avail yourself of HSS, then your shutter speed IS limited to 1/200th max - no matter what you try to set as a shutter speed.

Try this:

Put your camera in Manual mode, set the shutter speed at 1/1000th with an aperture of your choice. Put your EOS flash on the hot shoe and watch what happens to your shutter speed when you turn the flash on. It WILL/IS dialed back to 1/200th ( or 1/250th on some Canon cameras ) until you turn HSS on.

The advantage, for me, at least, is that with HSS, I do not have to remember that the flash has the power to alter/limit my shutter speed no matter what I have set it at.

I think this is what Nik was asking about really in his first post.

If you are shooting a wedding indoors, in dimmer light, where you KNOW you will NEVER NEED a shutter speed flaster than 1/160th, then you are correct that HSS offers no advantage to you. The difference is between using the strobe for fill in bright light, or as the main light overriding ambient, as a wedding shooter. I tend to use flash, or in combination with ambient. I rarely want an image that was lit primarily by my on camera strobe. But lots of wedding shooters do just that of course.

I am not saying that one use is better or more correct than another, just that the tools are used differently for different needs. HSS plays into this difference in usage.

Nikolai

Jim,

pathfinder wrote:

....
The advantage, for me, at least, is that with HSS, I do not have to remember that the flash has the power to alter/limit my shutter speed no matter what I have set it at.

I think this is what Nik was asking about really in his first post.

Yes, indeed, that was the exact reason!

pathfinder

I thought so, Nik.

I found myself getting overexposed images using fill in bright sunlight, and it was after I figured out that my shutter speed was not what I set it at, that I realized I needed to investigate and understand HSS. I no longer have unexpected over-exposures with fill flash now.

Or rarely anyway:D

jdryan3

pathfinder wrote:

The advantage that HSS offers, when shooting in Manual mode or Av, is that you are not limited to a shutter speed no faster than 1/200th or so.

Very Enlightening! (pun intended)

rwells

It's my understanding that on the 580EX, when HSS is enabled, it is only truly used when your shutter speed EXCEEDS your camera's X-speed.

Therefore, if you leave it on HSS it will have no affect on or below normal X-speed shots, and will take effect when you bump the shutter speed to above X-speed.

Set it on and leave it.

I could be wrong... I was once, but I've learned to live with her for 28 years now. :ivar

LiquidAir

rwells wrote:

It's my understanding that on the 580EX, when HSS is enabled, it is only truly used when your shutter speed EXCEEDS your camera's X-speed.

Therefore, if you leave it on HSS it will have no affect on or below normal X-speed shots, and will take effect when you bump the shutter speed to above X-speed.

Set it on and leave it.

This has been my experience.

As a side note, if you have one, it is sometimes better to use an ND filter than HSS because you can open up the aperture and still get the full power of the flash.

rwells

One more important note here...

It took lots of reading and experimenting with my 30D & 580EX before I finally figured out why I was getting inconsistent flash shots in different camera modes.

Av mode (on 30D), by default will only use your flash as "Fill Flash". Period...

Exception: There is custom function #03 that will force a x-sync speed of 1/250 (again, this is on a 30D - not sure about others)

So, even if you enable C.fn #03 and force a x-sync speed of 1/250, due to this you now cannot use HHS.

This is different than any other mode on this camera and was quite the devil to find the real reason for the inconsistencies between flash shots in different modes.


Clear as mud???


One other thing...

I shoot Rodeo's. Most of the time that I need flash I use White Lightning 1200's, but sometimes you get caught in a situation that you just have to make due. That's why I use HSS. Yes the output is less, but I can up the shutter speed to help control ambient light blur. I can usually save an underexposed pic in PS, but a blurred shot due to ambient light & too slow a shutter speed... hit the delete key boys!