Question About Macro Lenses

Stu Engelman

Hi!!!

A have a question about macro lenses. Does anyone make a true macro lens with zoom capability? Is this even possible to manufacture?

Basically, I would like something in the nature of a 30-150mm lens with real macro focusing capability (not just a minimum focal distance of 12-18 inches, but a real closeup focusing mechanism that works at about 6 inches). It would need to work with the Olympus 4/3 system, and integrate with the camera's (Evolt E-500) light metering system.

If there are such lenses available, I'd like something of at least OEM "prosumer" quality (even if the manufacturer is third party).

Thanks, Stu

ziggy53

True macro lenses provide a 1:1 ratio of subject to image size (on the sensor or on the film.) "Marketing macro" lenses provide 1:1 images when printed to 4 x 6 inches (or 4 x 5 inches in the case of digicams and the 4/3rds system cameras.)

I am not aware of any zoom lenses that provide a "true" macro capability, but you can come close with the use of diopter lenses. A 300mm lens with the Canon 250D should provide around true macro magnifications. Quality may be less than you expect however.

Stu Engelman

Hello Ziggy,

I was afraid the answer would be something like you provided, but I didn't want to jump to any conclusions before getting some information.

I guess the answer is that I need to get a prosumer prime lens for each focal angle I want to shoot at.

Stu

bkriete

Nikon made a 70-180 macro lens that was capable of 1:1.33 magnification (not quite 1:1) at 180mm. Canon makes the MP-E lens, which is a 1-5x macro however it is fixed-focus at a given magnification, so I don't think it qualifies as a zoom macro. It's incapable of focusing beyond a few inches anyway.

swintonphoto

-Here is a link the official 4/3 website that is run by all the companies supporting the 4/3 system. The link is for the part of the site that lists all the lenses that are currently available for the 4/3 system:
http://www.four-thirds.org/en/products/lense.html
-Here is also another link with a number of reviews and information articles about lenses for the E-system - there are a few that address some interesting options for macro such as macro bellows:
http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/index.html
-In addition to that, here is a link on that same site that reviews two of the Olympus Zuiko standard zoom lenses. In this article he has a few images that deomstrate the macro capability of the 14-54mm 2.8-3.5 lens. This lens sells for around $400 and gets good reviews. It looks like it may be close to what you want. Not a true macro, but can get really close:
http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/std-zoom.html
-Another option is to look into getting an extension tube that can make normal lenses cabable of doing macro photography. It costs around $120 Here is a link to information on the extension tube available for E-system lenses:
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/ex-25/index.asp
-Lastly, I currently have the 35mm macro lens for my E-500. It works very well, is very light, and very affordable (around $200).

Hope this information is helpful.

Stu Engelman

Hi Jonathan,

It appears you have proven that I am restricted to prime lenses when it comes to macro. Looks like sticking with Zuiko at the wider end may make sense. The only long macros are from Sigma, and they appear to have so-so reviews, at least by the public.

I've used Zuiko medium telephoto "kit lenses" with the EX-25 extension tube and have gotten some really amazing shots. It's a little confining though; every time I zoom in I have to move farther away from the subject, losing the normal amount of magnification gain.

I also use the 35mm Zuiko macro, and like it alot (very free of noise and fringing, at all but the most extreme settings with my Evolt E-500).

Will get the Zuiko 50mm macro to round things out for now, and wait for Olympus to make a long macro to complete the set.

By the way, I visited your online gallery - beautful!

Thanks for your help, Stu

Bob&Glennie

Stu, I really recommend the Zuiko 50mm f2 prime and possibly combine it with the Olympus TC1.4. The lens is very tiny and just superb. I have used it alone and in combo with the 1.4 converter and either way the results are superb. I'm using an E1 which is only 5mp but the 50mm f2 is so good that I can routinely get gallery quality 16x20 inch prints with very little up-sampling required. The work we are doing with this camera and Zuiko glass is competing very well in local galleries and craft shops.

Bob

Stu Engelman

Bob&Glennie wrote:

Stu, I really recommend the Zuiko 50mm f2 prime and possibly combine it with the Olympus TC1.4. The lens is very tiny and just superb. I have used it alone and in combo with the 1.4 converter and either way the results are superb. I'm using an E1 which is only 5mp but the 50mm f2 is so good that I can routinely get gallery quality 16x20 inch prints with very little up-sampling required. The work we are doing with this camera and Zuiko glass is competing very well in local galleries and craft shops.

Bob

How does the TC1.4 impact minimum focal distance?

Thanks, Stu

Bob&Glennie

Stu Engelman wrote:

How does the TC1.4 impact minimum focal distance?

Thanks, Stu

It doesn't affect lens to subject distance. It only magnifies image size by a factor of 1.4x. I cannot emphasize too much the importance of using the Olympus converter with Zuiko lenses. I've tried it the other way around both ways, i.e. non Olympus converter with Olympus lens OR Olympus converter with Sigma lens. Results were not sharp.

Bob

Stu Engelman

Bob&Glennie wrote:

It doesn't affect lens to subject distance. It only magnifies image size by a factor of 1.4x. I cannot emphasize too much the importance of using the Olympus converter with Zuiko lenses. I've tried it the other way around both ways, i.e. non Olympus converter with Olympus lens OR Olympus converter with Sigma lens. Results were not sharp.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks, this is great information and much appreciated.

Stu

Jekyll & Hyde

Don't forget the Crop Factor.

Stu Engelman wrote:

It would need to work with the Olympus 4/3 system

J: A little something that might make your search a bit easier...

The traditional definition of "Macro" is of course 1:1. But that is relative to a 35mm SLR's full frame sensor.

Thus a lens capable of focusing to 1:1 on a 35mm camera will produce a Frame Size of 36x24mm (an object 36mm wide will fill the frame).


H: Now with a 4/3 sensor (18x13.5mm), a 1:1 capable lens will produce a Frame Size of 18x13.5mm (an object 18mm wide will fill the frame).

Which relative to a full frame 35mm SLR would be equivalent to a 2:1 macro ratio! Producing much more "magnification."


J: So the question is, do you need a frame size of 18mm, or the more traditional 36mm?


H: If you are only looking for a frame size of 36mm (traditionally thought of as Macro), then your lens choice need only achieve a 1:2 macro ratio.


J: Many more of those around.


H: Or if you find one that you like which gets somewhat close to 1:2, do as the others suggested and tack on a 500D, or maybe even a 250D (depending on focal length and filter thread).

Or go the Tele-extender route or use Extension Tubes (you would lose some light with both of these options though).

Hope this makes your search a bit easier!
J&H

Stu Engelman

Hi J&H,

Could you please amplify on "...tack on a 500D, or maybe even a 250D"? Does this refer to using a teleconverter, or something else?

Regarding extension tubes, I do use them, and have gotten alot of really nice shots with them. The problem is that they effectively turn my zoom lens into a prime at each focal distance, so I have to move my camera for each composition option (zoom ratio). Thus my original post: "Does anyone make a true macro lens with zoom capability?" It appears everyone is saying the answer is no. :cry

Stu

Jekyll & Hyde

Stu Engelman wrote:

Hi J&H,

Could you please amplify on "...tack on a 500D, or maybe even a 250D"? Does this refer to using a teleconverter, or something else?

J: This refers to the Close Up Lenses that Ziggy mentions. Close Up Lenses reduce the focal length of a lens' objective element, thus allowing one to focus closer (in effect, increasing the "magnification"). They just screw onto the front of a lens like a filter.

H: Unlike many other lens accessories, they do not reduce the amount of light reaching the sensor (good news), however there is always some image degradation when placing more glass into the light path (bad news). The IQ has been sufficiently high for my own purposes, however YMMV.

J: On a zoom lens, the largest image size (frame size) is reached when the camera's lens is zoomed to maximum. However, one can also zoom wider for more framing flexibility (until vignetting becomes a problem).

H: The Canon 250D is +4 diopters, and if I recall is recommended for use with lenses from 50 - 135mm in focal length (actual focal length). And the 500D is +2 diopters, recommended for lenses from 70 - 300mm in focal length. These recommendations are based only on what the Close Up Lenses do to the Working Distance (front of lens to subject) when used with various lenses. For instance, a 250D on a 300mm lens will reduce the Working Distance to almost nothing. They're only guidelines, and can be stretched until your tolerance level is reached (working distance, vignetting, DOF, etc).

J: If you go with a Canon close up lens, be sure to get a lens with the "D" designation, as those are dual-element and they correct for distortion much better than the single-element lenses (plus overall IQ is generally much better).

H: One needn't stick with Canon close up lenses either. The lenses from Nikon, Oly, Sony, etc will work just as well, and if you stick with dual-element lenses, the IQ is in my experience basically indistinguishable between brands.

J: Bottom line, you might find that something like a Sony VCL-M3367 (3.3 diopters, 67mm filter threads) on a zoom that goes to 150mm (actual) might do the trick.

H: Keep in mind that (like the other options) you'd need to take the Close Up Lens off in order to focus to infinity.

Hope this helps some,
J&H

Stu Engelman

Hi J&H,

Thanks for all the information about close-up lenses. Everything you are saying is consistent with articles I have read about these lenses. Most of these focused on the fact that multiple element lenses can provide a real boost in quality as opposed to single element lense, a point you seem to be concurring with.

Do you have any opinion as to the merits of using a teleconverter versus using a close-up lense? According to Bob, these work well with macro lenses, as long as the teleconverter is good quality and is designed to work properly with the lense being used. You may be able to correct me on this, but my guess at this point is that the teleconverter will offer higher image quality, but the close-up lense may offer greater magnification. Also, can a close-up lense be used in conjunction with a macro lense (i.e., when the latter is utilizing it's macro focusing mechanism)?

Thanks, Stu