Last night's B-Ball-trying something new

Steve Cavigliano

Hello All,
I was pretty happy with the last results, using ISO800 and shooting wide open (F1.8). So I figured I'd try it in the home gym. I knew I'd be anywhere from right on to a full stop under, depending on the variables. I gave myself a saftey net by shooting in RAW. In comparing the F1.8/ISO800 shots to the F2.2/ISO1600 shots, I find that the noise is similar but the contrast and richness of color seem to be more pleasing.

Anyhow a few tight shots from the baseline.





The DOF is pretty thin when the players are close, but I think using ISO800 helps the overall image quality. Maybe I'm just seeing things (or not seeing....lol).


I'm pretty happy with what I've been getting lately. Please let me know what you think.


Thanks for looking

Steve

Ann McRae

Steve
These are great, the second shot is fantastic! So is the fourth!

Did you process the jpegs or from RAW? I am pleased with how well underexposed 20d shots respond to processing. And I am starting to be able to bring more pop out of shots, too. But I haven't ventured to the land of RAW yet.

How many RAW plus jpeg shots will a 1 gig card hold? I now have 2 1 gig cards, and have been really reducing the total number of shots per game, as my technique and anticipatory skills get better.

ann

Harryb

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Hello All,
I was pretty happy with the last results, using ISO800 and shooting wide open (F1.8). So I figured I'd try it in the home gym. I knew I'd be anywhere from right on to a full stop under, depending on the variables. I gave myself a saftey net by shooting in RAW. In comparing the F1.8/ISO800 shots to the F2.2/ISO1600 shots, I find that the noise is similar but the contrast and richness of color seem to be more pleasing.

Anyhow a few tight shots from the baseline.





The DOF is pretty thin when the players are close, but I think using ISO800 helps the overall image quality. Maybe I'm just seeing things (or not seeing....lol).


I'm pretty happy with what I've been getting lately. Please let me know what you think.


Thanks for looking

Steve

Hey Steve,

Outstanding shots. These are a definite improvement from the last batch I saw.

ginger_55

I liked the game better the night before. All those yellow stands drive me nuts.

Is that what you asked?

I actually did like the shots better from the last game (I don't follow basketball, but I did like those shots). What the reason was I don't know and may have nothing to do with which shots are better.

In one shot here, the back of the player in the middle bothers me. I did notice a lot of facial expressions here, and I know you are trying for that. (I don't like the faces much, though) Maybe it is all that yellow and the color of the uniforms.

You all were talking about getting in tighter. I found that interesting. I have told my husband (the school photographer, he shoots sports) for years to get in tighter. The rule at his company is all appendages in.

But I know the good shots in the magazines might be just a hand and a face. I notice things like that after a "discussion".

ginger (they are good shots, maybe I am just not in the mood for basketball tonight)

gregneil

Steve, I love these shots! The action is crisp, and the emotion is really evident. I love seeing the ball through the glass on that first image. Cool angle. Great work!

4labs

Steve really nice. You can definately see the color difference between these and the last batch.Do you shoot JC basketballl just for your own enjoyment or do you shoot for a publication? Growing up I used to go to most Knicks games now it is just painful to watch..I am sure it would be different if I got to take pictures..

ian408

This batch certainly have better color/saturation. There's not as much
of a yellow cast as in the last batch either. Nice and crisp too.

Ian

Steve Cavigliano

Ann McRae wrote:

Steve
These are great, the second shot is fantastic! So is the fourth!

Did you process the jpegs or from RAW? I am pleased with how well underexposed 20d shots respond to processing. And I am starting to be able to bring more pop out of shots, too. But I haven't ventured to the land of RAW yet.

How many RAW plus jpeg shots will a 1 gig card hold? I now have 2 1 gig cards, and have been really reducing the total number of shots per game, as my technique and anticipatory skills get better.

ann

Thanks Ann

As I wrote, I'm getting more safisfied with my results the more games I shoot. The good thing about a long season is that it gives you the chance to sort of experiment and then fine tune. I think this was the 7th or 8th game I shot with this combo (20D + 85mm F1.8) and I'm finally comfortable. I've always been a slow learner.....

Well the deal with RAW, as you know, is that it's easier to pull out shadow detail than with a jpg. So, as I wrote, I was anywhere from right on exposure-wise, to a stop under. RAW helped those -1EV shots alot, but was little or no help on the less under exposed shots. Plus, it does limit the burst to 6 shots. But, to tell the truth, I seldom shoot more than 4 shots in a row anyhow.

I too have noticed that your shots have more POP lately. Good work!! I guess we just needed some time to fool around with our post processing workflows and to absorb and apply all the information that's out there.

OK RAW capacity. I think I get like 300 RAW's + Large fine jpg's on a 4gb microdrive. So I guess, you'd get maybe 75 on a 1gig card. You might be able to squeeze a few more on the card by selecting a smaller or more compressed jpg size. I hear you about the number of shots per game. I started out taking about 200/game and now take about 60. I'm still getting the same number of keepers, maybe more, but as you mention, my anticipatory skills have improved dramatically.

Thanks for your comments Ann. When we jumped into this a few months back, I think we were both a little intimidated and maybe a bit over our heads. I am really happy about the results we are both getting and the progress we've made. I have to admit, I've really enjoyed the journey

Thanks again,
Steve

Steve Cavigliano

Harryb wrote:

Hey Steve,

Outstanding shots. These are a definite improvement from the last batch I saw.

Thanks Harry

As I wrote to Ann, I'ma slow learner (but I sure can cook ) Thanks to the feedback from folks here, I am finally getting a handle on the color/white balance issues.

While I'm not expecting a call from Sports Illustrated, I am pretty happy with these

Thanks for the comments,
Steve

Steve Cavigliano

ginger_55 wrote:

I liked the game better the night before. All those yellow stands drive me nuts.

Is that what you asked?

I actually did like the shots better from the last game (I don't follow basketball, but I did like those shots). What the reason was I don't know and may have nothing to do with which shots are better.

In one shot here, the back of the player in the middle bothers me. I did notice a lot of facial expressions here, and I know you are trying for that. (I don't like the faces much, though) Maybe it is all that yellow and the color of the uniforms.

You all were talking about getting in tighter. I found that interesting. I have told my husband (the school photographer, he shoots sports) for years to get in tighter. The rule at his company is all appendages in.

But I know the good shots in the magazines might be just a hand and a face. I notice things like that after a "discussion".

ginger (they are good shots, maybe I am just not in the mood for basketball tonight)

Ginger,
I agree. I hate those yellow stands.....lol My first pics (earlier games) were always so darn yellow. With the yellow floor and those darn yellow bleachers in each frame. The last game was in a different gym and they had different lighting and brown bleachers. I liked it better too

Hmmmm "all apendages in" huh? I've been trying to look around on the net about rules, or guidelines about chopping off arms/legs. That's interesting input, thank you And yes, I am also trying to get the facial expressions. I feel that they really help the shot's impact. I may be wrong though

I agree with you 100%. After reading/viewing stuff here, I find I notice different things, or look at things differently, in realtime.

Thanks for your comments and taking the time to look,
Steve

Steve Cavigliano

gregneil wrote:

Steve, I love these shots! The action is crisp, and the emotion is really evident. I love seeing the ball through the glass on that first image. Cool angle. Great work!

Thanks Greg

I'm getting pretty comfortable. I have taken enough really bad shots to learn from and I feel it has helped my success rate and the quality of my shots. I enjoy the games and I really enjoy having a tool that will let me shoot indoor sports Glad, you liked the shots and the emotion shown in some of them
As I mentioned to Ginger, I think it really helps make the shot more interesting.


Thanks for the comments,
Steve

Andy

appendages

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Hmmmm "all apendages in" huh? I've been trying to look around on the net about rules, or guidelines about chopping off arms/legs.

there is a "rule": *not* at or near the joint but midway between the joint and the next bone. so, avoid "at the wrist" but midway up the ulna is ok....

edit: but you know how i feel about "the rules..."

Steve Cavigliano

4labs wrote:

Steve really nice. You can definately see the color difference between these and the last batch.Do you shoot JC basketballl just for your own enjoyment or do you shoot for a publication? Growing up I used to go to most Knicks games now it is just painful to watch..I am sure it would be different if I got to take pictures..

Thanks 4labs

Different lighting between this group and the last batch. But, I think I am doing better at post processing the "home gym" pics. While I really enjoy the challenge of shooting sports, especially indoor sports. I never had the right tools to be able to do a decent job of it. The 20D and the 85mm F1.8 are a dream combo. While not exactly a 1D MkII, it allows me to get the results I've been after for years.

My son plays for this team. So I take these mainly for my own, and other parent's, enjoyment. The coach has even used some of my earlier pics (yes, the real yellow ones) as a slideshow on the team's website.

http://www.westvalleybasketball.com/mainbody.htm


I am also trying to assemble a portfolio of sports pics, so I can explore more opportunities and maybe even make some $ from this passion. After JC Basketball, it wil be on to HS Baseball.

Yep, taking pics at a Pro event, can really make it more interesting. The problem is that many venues won't let you in with decent enough equipment to take high quality shots. Usually, no pro level cameras are allowed and definitely no large zoom lenses. But, I used to be able to get my prosumer Sony into hockey games. While the results weren't anywhere near as good as what I'd get with the 20D, it was even more of a challenge and made for some very interesting times

Thanks again for the comments and for taking the time to look,
Steve

Steve Cavigliano

ian408 wrote:

This batch certainly have better color/saturation. There's not as much
of a yellow cast as in the last batch either. Nice and crisp too.

Ian

Thanks Ian

And it's only taken me 90% of the season to get it right :lol Between learning the camera and working with new characteristics (like shallow DOF) and that ugly yellow lighting, I've finally gotten comfortable. I just wish the season was longer....

Thanks for the comments and taking the time to look,
Steve