another shot at the moon

Scraff

Please let me know what you think...I have taken alot of criticism and read tons of posts. Here is my second attempt... Please leave me feedback. Thanks Scott

Skippy

Scraff wrote:

Please let me know what you think...I have taken alot of criticism and read tons of posts. Here is my second attempt... Please leave me feedback. Thanks Scott

Doesn't take long for the shadow of the moon to move does it
I have open both your shots and I'm amazed at how much it's moved.

I see you have the brightness toned down on this new shot,
but it still lacks sharpness Scott.

You are soooooooo close to getting it right, I would encourage you to keep trying, 'cause I recon you can do it .... Skippy
.

MrParts

Don't feel bad ... my camera won't do moon shots. Not enough zoom.

I think this looks good.

Scraff

Skippy wrote:

Doesn't take long for the shadow of the moon to move does it
I have open both your shots and I'm amazed at how much it's moved.

I see you have the brightness toned down on this new shot,
but it still lacks sharpness Scott.

You are soooooooo close to getting it right, I would encourage you to keep trying, 'cause I recon you can do it .... Skippy
.

Do you have any advice on he sharpness? This one is def. much sharper than my first post....but I agree that it is not 100%. What can I do different?
Thanks...Scott

Awais Yaqub

Much improved
you can use post processing software for sharpness. for in camera setting dslrs gurus will tell you

Andy

It's a stop underexposed, you can fix that in post. There's also a green fringe, also easy to fix

What do you have for post processing software?

ajgauthier

what's your exif?
I'm wondering what your settings are for exposure...the 'ecliptic' path that the moon follows is an area of sky that moves very fast (Earth's rotation). Objects nearer to Polaris (North Star...north pole projected out into space) move slower than objects near the celestial equator (Earth's equator projected out into space). That's just an effect of our perspective sitting here on a spinning.

There could also be a lot of 'turbulent atmosphere' effects as well. Think of driving down a hot highway, how you can see the "shimmer" of the heat coming off the asphalt. The same effect happens with Earth. That's why planets and the Moon can look at "shimmery" in a telescope or telefoto lens. If you are somewhere where there is a lot of moisture or pollution in the air you'll get the same effect. The best time to image the Moon is when it's almost overhead...less atmosphere to "look through". For a first quarter through full Moon can mean waiting til midnight to take a photo

I have a cheap-o zoom lens, and it's never sharp. Also --- I have an astigmatism that affects any manual focusing I do, even with glasses on. I'm always slightly off...I have to finagle it on both sides of being out of focus, then find the sweet spot when it's in focus before it goes back out...then it's ok. I'm not sure I explained that correctly, but I've had to perfect the skill of focusing for other people with better vision for telescope star parties.

Are you using a cable release or remote? If you don't have one use the timer...else you get unintended camera shake from your finger pushing the button. As someone else already mentioned, if you can lock the mirror up that'd be good.

Are you bracketing? Try keeping all the same settings on your camera EXCEPT the exposure. Here's a formula to try, depending on what the focal length of your lens is. From the math result...bracket on either side. When I used to image the Moon I'd go way down to an underexposed extreme and go 1 step up til I knew it was overexposed. Then, I'd take 5 shots of each exposure. Yup, that's a lot of photos...you have to keep a journal and record the settings for each photo (oh well...that was before I had a DSLR...with film you had to journal). Anyhoot --- taking 5 of each exposure allowed me wiggle room with "atmospheric effects" or other cool things (like getting a plane or bird dark shape in front of the Moon).

The formula:

t (in seconds) = f^2/SB

t = exposure time
f = f-ratio
S = film speed in ISO
B = brightness of object being photographed (7 for thin crescent, 16 for wider crescent, 32 for half moon, 70 for gibbous moon, 180 for full moon)

The book I have recommends a telephoto lens set to f/5.6 or f/8 for "sharpness"

There's another formuls too: Longest practical exposure (as to not get motion of the Earth's spin or Moon orbit)

longest exposure (in s) = 250/F

F = focal length in mm

The more zoomed in you are, the faster the Moon will blur.

Good luck! Many of you taking Moon shots lately and the Moon challenge by Nikolai has inspired me to revisit Moon photography via 8" telescope tonight after my star party (it's been like 6 years!)!

Adrienne

P.S. the above formula are referenced from Astrophotography for the Amateur (2nd edition) by Michael Covington. The formula are for film, not digital, so some tweaking will have to be made, but it's a start. I think in his latest edition he has numbers for DSLRs.

Scraff

Andy wrote:

It's a stop underexposed, you can fix that in post. There's also a green fringe, also easy to fix

What do you have for post processing software?

I use Photoshop CS2 for post. How can I fix this in PS?
Thanks...Scott

Scraff

ajgauthier wrote:

I'm wondering what your settings are for exposure...the 'ecliptic' path that the moon follows is an area of sky that moves very fast (Earth's rotation). Objects nearer to Polaris (North Star...north pole projected out into space) move slower than objects near the celestial equator (Earth's equator projected out into space). That's just an effect of our perspective sitting here on a spinning.

There could also be a lot of 'turbulent atmosphere' effects as well. Think of driving down a hot highway, how you can see the "shimmer" of the heat coming off the asphalt. The same effect happens with Earth. That's why planets and the Moon can look at "shimmery" in a telescope or telefoto lens. If you are somewhere where there is a lot of moisture or pollution in the air you'll get the same effect. The best time to image the Moon is when it's almost overhead...less atmosphere to "look through". For a first quarter through full Moon can mean waiting til midnight to take a photo

I have a cheap-o zoom lens, and it's never sharp. Also --- I have an astigmatism that affects any manual focusing I do, even with glasses on. I'm always slightly off...I have to finagle it on both sides of being out of focus, then find the sweet spot when it's in focus before it goes back out...then it's ok. I'm not sure I explained that correctly, but I've had to perfect the skill of focusing for other people with better vision for telescope star parties.

Are you using a cable release or remote? If you don't have one use the timer...else you get unintended camera shake from your finger pushing the button. As someone else already mentioned, if you can lock the mirror up that'd be good.

Are you bracketing? Try keeping all the same settings on your camera EXCEPT the exposure. Here's a formula to try, depending on what the focal length of your lens is. From the math result...bracket on either side. When I used to image the Moon I'd go way down to an underexposed extreme and go 1 step up til I knew it was overexposed. Then, I'd take 5 shots of each exposure. Yup, that's a lot of photos...you have to keep a journal and record the settings for each photo (oh well...that was before I had a DSLR...with film you had to journal). Anyhoot --- taking 5 of each exposure allowed me wiggle room with "atmospheric effects" or other cool things (like getting a plane or bird dark shape in front of the Moon).

The formula:

t (in seconds) = f^2/SB

t = exposure time
f = f-ratio
S = film speed in ISO
B = brightness of object being photographed (7 for thin crescent, 16 for wider crescent, 32 for half moon, 70 for gibbous moon, 180 for full moon)

The book I have recommends a telephoto lens set to f/5.6 or f/8 for "sharpness"

There's another formuls too: Longest practical exposure (as to not get motion of the Earth's spin or Moon orbit)

longest exposure (in s) = 250/F

F = focal length in mm

The more zoomed in you are, the faster the Moon will blur.

Good luck! Many of you taking Moon shots lately and the Moon challenge by Nikolai has inspired me to revisit Moon photography via 8" telescope tonight after my star party (it's been like 6 years!)!

Adrienne

P.S. the above formula are referenced from Astrophotography for the Amateur (2nd edition) by Michael Covington. The formula are for film, not digital, so some tweaking will have to be made, but it's a start. I think in his latest edition he has numbers for DSLRs.

Hey Adrienne,
Thank you for the writeup...lots of useful info! Can you please explaing how to do braketing? I have read lots of people doing and asking if I am doing braketing and I do not understand it. I am sure the equipment I am using (Canon Digital Rebel XTi) will do it.
Thank you...Scott

nikos

I like to use the Lab workspace for moon shots. As a quickie for you, steepen the L curve using an adjustment layer by hitting the auto button. Add another point at about 80% of the shadow side of the curve and steepen a bit more. This will add your contrast.

For detail, you can flatten the image, select the L channel and perform a HIROLOAM sharpening.

To make sure that the background is completely black, convert back to RGB, add a levels adjustment layer, select the black eyedropper and click in the black space.

I also cropped to balance out the shot.

HTH,
Nikos

pathfinder

There is no need for long exposures of the moon - (it is sunlit), any more than a long exposure of a building in bright sunlight.

You must shoot the moon in manual mode with a daylight exposure.

Here is one of my shots of the moon with the exposure data at the bottom.



You will see movement of stars shots with exposures longer than ~20-25 seconds with a normal focal length lens.

Long lenses will show movement much quicker, but the moon is bright enough that this should not be an issue.

Here is star movement of Orion's belt with a modest exposure about 25seconds - apparently the exif data is not showing for this image for some reason in my smugmmug account

Scraff

pathfinder wrote:

There is no need for long exposures of the moon - (it is sunlit), any more than a long exposure of a building in bright sunlight.

You must shoot the moon in manual mode with a daylight exposure.

Here is one of my shots of the moon with the exposure data at the bottom.



You will see movement of stars shots with exposures longer than ~20-25 seconds with a normal focal length lens.

Long lenses will show movement much quicker, but the moon is bright enough that this should not be an issue.

Here is star movement of Orion's belt with a modest exposure about 25seconds - apparently the exif data is not showing for this image for some reason in my smugmmug account

Thanks for the help. I am going to try a few more shots this week with some different setting and see how they come out.

Scraff

nikos wrote:

I like to use the Lab workspace for moon shots. As a quickie for you, steepen the L curve using an adjustment layer by hitting the auto button. Add another point at about 80% of the shadow side of the curve and steepen a bit more. This will add your contrast.

For detail, you can flatten the image, select the L channel and perform a HIROLOAM sharpening.

To make sure that the background is completely black, convert back to RGB, add a levels adjustment layer, select the black eyedropper and click in the black space.

I also cropped to balance out the shot.

HTH,
Nikos

Hey Nikos,
I am assuming that you are using Photoshop for this, correct? I am going to go back to a few of my older photos and try this out.
Thanks for the help...Scott

nikos

Scraff wrote:

Hey Nikos,
I am assuming that you are using Photoshop for this, correct? I am going to go back to a few of my older photos and try this out.
Thanks for the help...Scott

Yep, I'm using photoshop.

Here's some great info concerning the Lab color space:
Margulis' Lab Color Book - Chapter 1 has lots of great info that'll help your moon shots.

HTH,
Nikos

farfromthesun

pathfinder wrote:

Here is star movement of Orion's belt with a modest exposure about 25seconds - apparently the exif data is not showing for this image for some reason in my smugmmug account

What lens are you using for this?

pathfinder

Spotlight found the orig psd hiding on an old drive.

That was shot with a 10D and a Tamron 28-75 Di at 28mm f4.0 30 seconds ISO 100

Here is the full frame downsampled for attaching - it was noisy as expected with a 30 sec exposure with a 10D