Question for Pros: How do you handle/treat customers who are family/close friends?

ChuckWC

Hi,

This question is for the pros out there who offer packages (i.e., so many hours per so much money) and who have their customers sign contracts. So, that could be for weddings, portraits, events, etc.

I'm curious how you treat your customers if they happen to be family (siblings, parents) or close friends. For one thing, do you offer a standard reduction in price (e.g., 40% off regular prices) or do you treat each event on a case-by-case basis? (or do you not even offer a discount, or do you do work for free?)

Also, do you have these special customers sign contracts, just so they'll know what they're getting and so there won't be hard feelings later on from incorrect assumptions? Do they ever look at you funny, as if to say, "Umm, why is he/she having me sign a contract?!"? How do you handle it if they balk and feel insulted that you (a brother/son/etc.) are making them sign a contract? :deal

I recently did my very first portrait shoot, and it was for a friend and her new husband. Because it was my first time, I gave her both a friend discount and a "learning-experience-for-me" discount. But, I didn't have them sign a contract. Luckily there were no problems and they were happy with the pics, but if there had been problems, it could've gotten messy.

Any tips/hints would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! :thumb

irenelucier

Hi Chuck,

First, have a standard for who qualifies as family and very close friends, I use this, "Would they ask me to help them move to a new house, and would I do it?"

Afterall, they are essentially asking for free labor and they feel comfortable doing this due to the nature of your relationship with them. Most people simply do not understand that it is work, with real costs to your time, wear on equipment, etc, or they truly underestimate.

For those people who inspire an affirmative answer on the move question, I tend to gift the session and prints 16x20 and below.

If it's not someone who qualifies on the move question, but there is a relationship I feel compelled to acknowledge with a break, I'll charge cost of business, and reduce print fees by up to 50%, but never below actual cost to me. Essentially I do not profit from the session, nor I do not lose money on it.

Some people are suprised I charge as I do, but it helps to point out that they would find it odd if their boss asked them to work off the clock for an equivalent amount of time. It's always come down to educating them about what their request entails.

As for contracts, a model release works for the freebies and a portrait conract that indicates both standard rates and the discount % for the at cost crowd.

Get comfortable explaining it all, most people get it and move on, but they will balk if they sense that you are uncomfortable with it.

Hope it helps.

claudermilk

Irene has good advice. For me, I will generally do family as a freebie with the understanding that they now owe me a favor; much of may family has skills I can use in a siialr fashion. For example, I shot my brother-in-law's wedding (a small, informal affair) gratis, but he now owes me some remodel work being an independant contractor. So we work on a barter system and don't worry too much about absolute hourly value.

For friends, it's generally at-cost with the understanding it's a favor so don't complain, or at full price with the right to be a PITA customer & we keep that transaction/relationship isolated.

ChuckWC

irenelucier wrote:

Hi Chuck,

...

Some people are suprised I charge as I do, but it helps to point out that they would find it odd if their boss asked them to work off the clock for an equivalent amount of time. It's always come down to educating them about what their request entails.

...

Get comfortable explaining it all, most people get it and move on, but they will balk if they sense that you are uncomfortable with it.

Hope it helps.

Thanks for the info, Irene, definitely helpful (especially about being comfortable explaining it all and not looking uncomfortable doing so).

Right now, photography is very much a secondary business of mine and it's the first time I've had to deal with costs when friends/families are involved. I've actually noticed that people within this group start off by asking me how much I'll charge and don't assume it'll be a freebie. I think they realize I've moved on from photography being strictly a hobby to something I'll do for a fee.

ChuckWC

claudermilk wrote:

Irene has good advice. For me, I will generally do family as a freebie with the understanding that they now owe me a favor; much of may family has skills I can use in a siialr fashion. For example, I shot my brother-in-law's wedding (a small, informal affair) gratis, but he now owes me some remodel work being an independant contractor. So we work on a barter system and don't worry too much about absolute hourly value.

Interesting concept. Unfortunately, my friends/family don't have any skills that I could use!

claudermilk wrote:

For friends, it's generally at-cost with the understanding it's a favor so don't complain, or at full price with the right to be a PITA customer & we keep that transaction/relationship isolated.

Can you clarify what you mean by "at-cost"? I understand what it means as it pertains to prints (i.e., you don't charge any markup on the prints) but what about your hourly work rate? For example, if you charge "regular" customers $150 per hour (just an example), what would you charge your friends? For hourly rates, I think I confuse "at-cost" with "free" but I'm sure that's not what you mean.

Thanks for the insight. I do think there are certain advantages to treating friends like "regular" customers (perhaps with a price break) since then the business doesn't interfere with the friendship as much (or so one hopes!)

irenelucier

ChuckWC wrote:

clarify what you mean by "at-cost"?

For our discussion, at cost is based on my cost of doing business, minus my wage. NPPA has a calculator with helpful defiinitions and examples available. I put in a spreadsheet to be able to play with the figures. So to waive only the fees that pay my own wage, I know what discount to apply.

It is research intensive, but the more accurate you can make your numbers the better.

For example, having arrived a figure based on your own real world numbers, you more confidently quote that amount than if you had pulled it out of the air or copied from another photographer. Also, going through the work of discovering the real world numbers of your business will force you to account for expenses you might otherwise overlook.

ChuckWC

irenelucier wrote:

For our discussion, at cost is based on my cost of doing business, minus my wage. NPPA has a calculator with helpful defiinitions and examples available. I put in a spreadsheet to be able to play with the figures. So to waive only the fees that pay my own wage, I know what discount to apply.

It is research intensive, but the more accurate you can make your numbers the better.

For example, having arrived a figure based on your own real world numbers, you more confidently quote that amount than if you had pulled it out of the air or copied from another photographer. Also, going through the work of discovering the real world numbers of your business will force you to account for expenses you might otherwise overlook.

Hey, thanks a bunch for that link! Very helpful and eye-opening. I see now what you mean by "at cost" (basically, just enter a salary of "0" and keep all other expenses "as-is"). I'll definitely be looking at that calculator (and that website) more carefully.

claudermilk

Yep, that's pretty much it. I know there's another similar calculator based on a Filemaker executable that goes a step further and helps you set your day rate based on expected billable days vs your calculated overhead--I don't recall which group it was that had it.

StevenV

one note, and I've posted this before but I don't remember where... if you're going to give a discount (or freebie) to someone, I've found it good to give them a full-price invoice with the discount noted at the bottom (and I put "one-time discount" on it).

That way it reinforces to them that there's a value they're getting for lower cost... and they're less likely to tell their friends to "call Joe, he can do it for free."

~Jan~

That is good advice, Steven, about doing the invoice. I'm going to encounter a similar problem...I'm doing stuff for free now because I'm portfolio-building, but at some point I'll want to start charging and that might be weird.