OMG! It was just a kid's butt! And not much different from this challenge winner, IMHO: http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=561699&postcount=5. Neither picture showed who the butt belonged to so it's not as if a sicko will find either child.
It's not unusual to see kids under 5 running around sans bathing suits (and diapers) at beaches in Europe. Most Europeans aren't even going to give them a second look.
I thought the picture was adorable and hardly what one would consider obscene. It's a shame that the OP felt the need to remove it.
Shay's statement about the fear being over-exaggerated is right on the money.
It's really odd that we are having this discussion with an LPS theme of Freedom/Opression.
You could always resubmit it with a "CENSORED" stamp across her butt. Then you could change the title to "The Land of the Free?"
I don't think that there was anything wrong with this picture, but there is a lot wrong with the world. I used to let my toddlers run around in the sprinklers out front in just their undies or even naked. Then one day, I found out that the neighbor across the street was registered under Meagan's Law (for known sex offenders). He was arrested for aggravated assault.
I don't know any more details of his perversions, but that changed my outlook on the safety of my own front yard. I could no longer let them run free with out the inkling of 'someone' watching, whether the known offender or someone else struggling with temptations yet to be manifested in a crime.
Unfortunately, I know far too many people who have been victims of molestation or worse, both family and friends. I've also known offenders and realize they can be anyone. One of them was my own father who will be in jail for the rest of his life for molesting several young girls. I grew up with this man as my dad and for that, love him, despite his crimes which sicken me.
My dad was also a pastor and did a lot of good in our community. When he was arrested, I found out that he had struggled with his perverse desires for years and had tried to get help, because despite his problem, he did want to be a good dad and husband.
I look at pedophilia as similar to drug or alcohol addiction. I feel posting pictures that show nudity, whether sensual or innocent in nature, are just like waving a bottle and empty glass in front of an alcoholic. There is an internal struggle that goes on with the offender that most will never understand. They are responsible for their own actions, but we don't have to make the struggle any harder for them than it already is.
You could always resubmit it with a "CENSORED" stamp across her butt. Then you could change the title to "The Land of the Free?"
I don't think that there was anything wrong with this picture, but there is a lot wrong with the world. I used to let my toddlers run around in the sprinklers out front in just their undies or even naked. Then one day, I found out that the neighbor across the street was registered under Meagan's Law (for known sex offenders). He was arrested for aggravated assault.
I don't know any more details of his perversions, but that changed my outlook on the safety of my own front yard. I could no longer let them run free with out the inkling of 'someone' watching, whether the known offender or someone else struggling with temptations yet to be manifested in a crime.
Unfortunately, I know far too many people who have been victims of molestation or worse, both family and friends. I've also known offenders and realize they can be anyone. One of them was my own father who will be in jail for the rest of his life for molesting several young girls. I grew up with this man as my dad and for that, love him, despite his crimes which sicken me.
My dad was also a pastor and did a lot of good in our community. When he was arrested, I found out that he had struggled with his perverse desires for years and had tried to get help, because despite his problem, he did want to be a good dad and husband.
I look at pedophilia as similar to drug or alcohol addiction. I feel posting pictures that show nudity, whether sensual or innocent in nature, are just like waving a bottle and empty glass in front of an alcoholic. There is an internal struggle that goes on with the offender that most will never understand. They are responsible for their own actions, but we don't have to make the struggle any harder for them than it already is.
THANK YOU for expressing so elegantly your thoughts...I admire your compassion to those with the addiction, as I was a victim of molestation, I know how difficult that can be.
Your WORDS were SPOT ON!! There is no right or wrong here. Just views, opinions and concerns, and looking out for our fellow peer, and a parent as well!
I loved your take on the photo....what a GREAT IDEA!!
BRAVO BRAVO
You're only as good as your next photo....
One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
I'm away for the weekend and am borrowing a laptop to check my email. I have a lot to say but not a l ot of time...
To the OP: I don't know what to say about your "guilt" comment. I would hope this discussion isn't about guilting anyone and more about a discussion about what is safe and the ethics many photographers face.
I feel uncomfortable about the sweeping "moral" sentiments--like those of us who have experessed concern are on some moral high horse. For me anyway, this isn't a moral issue in the least.
I think the difference betwen this image and the one Greensquared posted is that this one is of an older child--and IMO much easier to PS and distort.
I used to knit diaper covers as a side job. Many of us in the cloth-diaper knitting community were faced with a huge situation when we found many of our product images being used in a pornography ring. The children we were featuring on our sites, dressed in our products, had been defiled or simply used as fodder for a very large, deranged group to get their jollies. There were hundreds of children's pictures taken from sites all over the internet.
Perhaps the harm we don't know about is not important. There is no intrinsic harm in someone masturbating to a child's image (the child isn't being hurt, right?). What it does is perpetuate an idea that our children are of less value, are objects for pleasure or are inhuman. To the small subset of people who are mentally ill, this presents a great breeding ground to feed this addiction. If it stopped there then I doubt there'd be much of an issue. But it doesnt' stop there.
My community is still reeling from the effects of the abduction and murder of a 12-year-old girl on the 4th of July. I am not getting wrapped up in imagined danger.
People are free to post their kids' cute bottoms all they want. To me, it's not offensive in the least. But what is wrong with a discussion about what might be dangerous about that situation? I guess I'm surprised by the "moral police" accusations.
Again, to the OP: I'm not incharge of how you feel (obviously); but I hope you don't feel guilty for posting the picture and this discussion has inspired you to question what you hold to be true in your heart.
Guilt is all mine...
Sorry - I didn't mean to make my posting seem as if anybody on the board had made me feel guilty. As a Mom, I can easily take myself on a far bigger guilt trip than anybody else can do for me!
I was already working on a 'censored' when I read Debbie's suggestion. We were thinking along the same lines! I'll have to see how it comes out.
I really had no idea this picture would generate such a discussion, but I definitely don't feel bad about taking it (and nobody else should feel bad about sharing their thoughts on it either!). Makes for interesting conversation.
S
I was already working on 'censored' iwhen I read Debbie's suggestion. We were thinking along the same lines! I'll have to see how it comes out.
Michelle
I had the same idea today but couldn't get to a computer to pass it on. Looks like my input wasn't needed. I would name the photo "The Power of Fear."
While I respect all of the opinions expressed in this thread and feel that the issues are very difficult I weigh in on Shay's side. Sure, it is a scary world, and I worry every time I post a photograph of my granddaughter even though I have never posted or emailed a photo of her without clothes on. Still, I personally have decided (and my daughter concurs) that while vigilance is necessary (and has always been necessary), I will continue to post photographs of my granddaughter and to enjoy photos by others of children such as yours, Michelle.
When I first saw your ohoto I thought it was cute and only worried that the flag might cause an issue for some. Now it has acquired a powerful meaning about what happens when we lose the freedom to share the pleasure and joy in innocence without being paralyzed by fear.
You have handled yourself well in all of this. Take care.
Virginia
_______________________________________________ "A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
Comments
Charlie
It's not unusual to see kids under 5 running around sans bathing suits (and diapers) at beaches in Europe. Most Europeans aren't even going to give them a second look.
I thought the picture was adorable and hardly what one would consider obscene. It's a shame that the OP felt the need to remove it.
Shay's statement about the fear being over-exaggerated is right on the money.
It's really odd that we are having this discussion with an LPS theme of Freedom/Opression.
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
I don't think that there was anything wrong with this picture, but there is a lot wrong with the world. I used to let my toddlers run around in the sprinklers out front in just their undies or even naked. Then one day, I found out that the neighbor across the street was registered under Meagan's Law (for known sex offenders). He was arrested for aggravated assault.
I don't know any more details of his perversions, but that changed my outlook on the safety of my own front yard. I could no longer let them run free with out the inkling of 'someone' watching, whether the known offender or someone else struggling with temptations yet to be manifested in a crime.
Unfortunately, I know far too many people who have been victims of molestation or worse, both family and friends. I've also known offenders and realize they can be anyone. One of them was my own father who will be in jail for the rest of his life for molesting several young girls. I grew up with this man as my dad and for that, love him, despite his crimes which sicken me.
My dad was also a pastor and did a lot of good in our community. When he was arrested, I found out that he had struggled with his perverse desires for years and had tried to get help, because despite his problem, he did want to be a good dad and husband.
I look at pedophilia as similar to drug or alcohol addiction. I feel posting pictures that show nudity, whether sensual or innocent in nature, are just like waving a bottle and empty glass in front of an alcoholic. There is an internal struggle that goes on with the offender that most will never understand. They are responsible for their own actions, but we don't have to make the struggle any harder for them than it already is.
Canon Rebel XTi w/18-55mm kit lens
28-105mm
100-300mm USM
100mm macro USM & Kenko extension tubes
THANK YOU for expressing so elegantly your thoughts...I admire your compassion to those with the addiction, as I was a victim of molestation, I know how difficult that can be.
Your WORDS were SPOT ON!! There is no right or wrong here. Just views, opinions and concerns, and looking out for our fellow peer, and a parent as well!
I loved your take on the photo....what a GREAT IDEA!!
BRAVO BRAVO
To the OP: I don't know what to say about your "guilt" comment. I would hope this discussion isn't about guilting anyone and more about a discussion about what is safe and the ethics many photographers face.
I feel uncomfortable about the sweeping "moral" sentiments--like those of us who have experessed concern are on some moral high horse. For me anyway, this isn't a moral issue in the least.
I think the difference betwen this image and the one Greensquared posted is that this one is of an older child--and IMO much easier to PS and distort.
I used to knit diaper covers as a side job. Many of us in the cloth-diaper knitting community were faced with a huge situation when we found many of our product images being used in a pornography ring. The children we were featuring on our sites, dressed in our products, had been defiled or simply used as fodder for a very large, deranged group to get their jollies. There were hundreds of children's pictures taken from sites all over the internet.
Perhaps the harm we don't know about is not important. There is no intrinsic harm in someone masturbating to a child's image (the child isn't being hurt, right?). What it does is perpetuate an idea that our children are of less value, are objects for pleasure or are inhuman. To the small subset of people who are mentally ill, this presents a great breeding ground to feed this addiction. If it stopped there then I doubt there'd be much of an issue. But it doesnt' stop there.
My community is still reeling from the effects of the abduction and murder of a 12-year-old girl on the 4th of July. I am not getting wrapped up in imagined danger.
People are free to post their kids' cute bottoms all they want. To me, it's not offensive in the least. But what is wrong with a discussion about what might be dangerous about that situation? I guess I'm surprised by the "moral police" accusations.
Again, to the OP: I'm not incharge of how you feel (obviously); but I hope you don't feel guilty for posting the picture and this discussion has inspired you to question what you hold to be true in your heart.
Jesse
Sorry - I didn't mean to make my posting seem as if anybody on the board had made me feel guilty. As a Mom, I can easily take myself on a far bigger guilt trip than anybody else can do for me!
I was already working on a 'censored' when I read Debbie's suggestion. We were thinking along the same lines! I'll have to see how it comes out.
I really had no idea this picture would generate such a discussion, but I definitely don't feel bad about taking it (and nobody else should feel bad about sharing their thoughts on it either!). Makes for interesting conversation.
Michelle
I had the same idea today but couldn't get to a computer to pass it on. Looks like my input wasn't needed.
While I respect all of the opinions expressed in this thread and feel that the issues are very difficult I weigh in on Shay's side. Sure, it is a scary world, and I worry every time I post a photograph of my granddaughter even though I have never posted or emailed a photo of her without clothes on. Still, I personally have decided (and my daughter concurs) that while vigilance is necessary (and has always been necessary), I will continue to post photographs of my granddaughter and to enjoy photos by others of children such as yours, Michelle.
When I first saw your ohoto I thought it was cute and only worried that the flag might cause an issue for some. Now it has acquired a powerful meaning about what happens when we lose the freedom to share the pleasure and joy in innocence without being paralyzed by fear.
You have handled yourself well in all of this. Take care.
Virginia
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
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Love your entry, great job and good luck to you.
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Virginia
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
Email
Rather you, than me, Michelle!!!