Published Without Permission

SamirD

I didn't think about searching about this here for so long. After some exhaustive searches on this topic tonight, I really didn't find too much information I didn't already know. So I started this thread.

Here's the question--Have you ever been published without your permission? Were you compensated in any way before or after the work was published?

I've had this happen to me a few times, once in a local paper, The Decatur Daily, one other time that I can't remember, and once in February 2007 in Grassroots Motorsports magazine.

The paper basically told me to "go ahead and sue them if I want, I won't get anything from them." This is after they used multiple pictures on the cover of a Sunday sports section and on-line.

The magazine sent me a check, but I haven't cashed it since I don't want that to be considered "granting permission." The original of the photo was released a few years back for personal use to various event participants. It was never released for commercial use.

The legal fees that could answer this questions would be more than I've ever made through photography, so it's really not worth the trouble for an exact answer. But I'm curious, what's your experience? What's your story?

jdryan3

Have you checked out this thread? A little long, very funny, but also insightful ...

jamesl

SamirD wrote:

I didn't think about searching about this here for so long. After some exhaustive searches on this topic tonight, I really didn't find too much information I didn't already know. So I started this thread.

Yes, several times. Every once in a while I search through Google for some of my more unique photography that is easy to find. Depending upon what kind of use they have, I handle it differently. If it is a commercial site, then I try to turn it into a sale. I give them the option of either removing the image, or licensing it from me. Most choose to license, and are generally willing to work with me. If it is a non-profit or personal site, then I just ask them to properly credit my website. That, in turn, drives more traffic to my site.

I haven't really run into any malicious use of my pictures, like reselling on ebay or something. Generally, people are pretty cool, and I try to treat them like prospective customers and not thieves. It's pretty tough these days to completely police where your pictures are going to be used. I try to keep a watermark on the images, and not worry about it too much.

James

SamirD

jdryan3 wrote:

Have you checked out this thread? A little long, very funny, but also insightful ...

Yeah, this one was a goodie. I only did some heavy skimming, but I'll read through it completely. Thank you for the link.

SamirD

jamesl wrote:

Yes, several times. Every once in a while I search through Google for some of my more unique photography that is easy to find. Depending upon what kind of use they have, I handle it differently. If it is a commercial site, then I try to turn it into a sale. I give them the option of either removing the image, or licensing it from me. Most choose to license, and are generally willing to work with me. If it is a non-profit or personal site, then I just ask them to properly credit my website. That, in turn, drives more traffic to my site.

I haven't really run into any malicious use of my pictures, like reselling on ebay or something. Generally, people are pretty cool, and I try to treat them like prospective customers and not thieves. It's pretty tough these days to completely police where your pictures are going to be used. I try to keep a watermark on the images, and not worry about it too much.

James

That's a good approach, and I plan to take that route with Grassroots Motorsports since they're already sent me a check. But what about the newspaper situation? How would you handle that?

jamesl

SamirD wrote:

That's a good approach, and I plan to take that route with Grassroots Motorsports since they're already sent me a check. But what about the newspaper situation? How would you handle that?

That's definately a tougher one. Did they pay you close to what you would have gotten if they had licensed it? Did they publish a retraction and correctly give you credit for the photo? Maybe you could turn this into more paid licensing opportunities with them? Suing them would be tough, and at the end of the day I'm not sure you'd have much to show for it (Note, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv ). To me, your best bet is to try to turn this into more business for you.

Hope that helps,

James

claudermilk

Like James said, did GRM make the check for about what you'd charge for it? It's not like they can un-print the magazines. My read on those guys is they aren't the sort to deliberately screw anyone (I am a long time subscriber & have chatted with a couple of them). I'll bet one of those event participants gave them the pic.

The newspaper is tougher. Probably not much money to be had even with their "yep, you caught us, now come get us" attitude.

SamirD

jamesl wrote:

That's definately a tougher one. Did they pay you close to what you would have gotten if they had licensed it? Did they publish a retraction and correctly give you credit for the photo? Maybe you could turn this into more paid licensing opportunities with them? Suing them would be tough, and at the end of the day I'm not sure you'd have much to show for it (Note, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv ). To me, your best bet is to try to turn this into more business for you.

Hope that helps,

James

The newspaper did not pay nor offered to pay anything. The did not publish a retraction as far as I know, but they did add a credit to the photo online.

I tried to strike a deal with them to re-interview the same driver I shot photos of as his career develops, and for them to publish the proper credits this time. They would not guarantee a re-interview.

To be frank, they could really care less. They feel they owe me nothing based on the fact that there was no copyright notice attached to the digital files.

SamirD

claudermilk wrote:

Like James said, did GRM make the check for about what you'd charge for it? It's not like they can un-print the magazines. My read on those guys is they aren't the sort to deliberately screw anyone (I am a long time subscriber & have chatted with a couple of them). I'll bet one of those event participants gave them the pic.

I'm not sure what I'd charge to be published without credit. If a credit went to my website, I'd do it as an exchange since that would be the equivalent of free advertising. But this wasn't the case.

The guys are GRM seem like they are very close to the content of their magazine--ie car guys themselves. I'm sure if I get time one of these days to call them, we should be able to get a commercial release signed and possibly do some future business together.

claudermilk wrote:

The newspaper is tougher. Probably not much money to be had even with their "yep, you caught us, now come get us" attitude.

That's the way I feel as well. It's just sad to know that people can get away with this type of thing.

Angelo

SamirD wrote:

The newspaper did not pay nor offered to pay anything. The did not publish a retraction as far as I know, but they did add a credit to the photo online.

I tried to strike a deal with them to re-interview the same driver I shot photos of as his career develops, and for them to publish the proper credits this time. They would not guarantee a re-interview.

To be frank, they could really care less. They feel they owe me nothing based on the fact that there was no copyright notice attached to the digital files.

you've been a member here long enough to know that is not a defensible excuse.

I'd recommend issuing an invoice for the amount you'd expect and send it to the paper's editor and / or accounts payable department. If, following a reasonable period of time, they refuse to pay your invoice, take the matter to small claims court.

Where are you located? (what is HSV?) Check with your county courthouse on the permissible limits for a smalls claim action (usually in the area of $2500.)

SamirD

Angelo wrote:

you've been a member here long enough to know that is not a defensible excuse.

I'd recommend issuing an invoice for the amount you'd expect and send it to the paper's editor and / or accounts payable department. If, following a reasonable period of time, they refuse to pay your invoice, take the matter to small claims court.

Where are you located? (what is HSV?) Check with your county courthouse on the permissible limits for a smalls claim action (usually in the area of $2500.)

Thank you for the reply.

I never thought about the invoice idea. That's definitely a good one, although I'm not sure it will work now that about two years have passed since they published the pictures. It's food for thought in case it happens again, but I won't let anyone near originals anymore without a signed contract.

I've had a friend take some of his clients to small claims court. It seems to work pretty easily and pretty well. It just takes time. To answer your question, HSV is the aiport code of the city I live in.