I do my very best to keep any shoot as simple as possible........
I do not take any PROPS to on location shoots...however I just might pick a flower or 2 to use during a shoot if I am in a park or such...not a botanical park but regular city park........I prefer to use things that the clients are comfortably with...ie their personal stuff......
I don't have a card. I really need to get one and figure it out.
There's not much to figure out. You just take a shot of the card in the same
light as your subject (it can even be after your shoot) and then use it in post
as your WB reference. You can then apply that setting to all your pics in a
single click and you've got perfect WB for your entire shoot.
Yep that's what I do. Cards make it too difficult for me...you can correct your WB and your exposure when you just shoot RAW.
There seems to be a notion, here, that shooting RAW and using WhiBal are
mutually exclusive. I think the misunderstanding is that you think WhiBal is
used in JPG mode as a WB reference (where you take a shot of what you
consider neutral, and then let the camera set its WB according to that). Even
though you can do that, the main use of WhiBal is in RAW workflows.
You say you can correct WB when you shoot RAW. This is exactly what WhiBal
is for, and it is with RAW in mind that it was created. How can you possibly
set the WB in post if you don't have a neutral source somewhere in the
environment you shot? You can only eyeball it, which is hardly perfect. With
WhiBal (or any good neutral card, it's not like I'm plugging a specific product)
all you do is take one picture of it in the same light as your subject and
then forget about WB altogether. Later in post, if you've shot RAW, all you do
is find the WhiBal shot, use the WB eyedropper to click on the WhiBal card and
apply that setting to all the other pictures. And that's it. So for the effort
of taking one more shot than you normally would, you are assured a perfect
white balance in all your other shots. This is better shown, than told, though.
Here's a video that demonstrates the usefulness of this tool:
Can't you just use a gray card instead of the whibal? It looks like he's just clicking the 18% gray part of the card to achieve proper white balance. THis looks like it would work well in a situation where a white shirt turns comes out looking blue, Jan.
In addition to my equipment, I can't imagine carrying my own props to a location other than a stool to sit on or step ladder to stand on. Maybe a solid color blanket to lay a baby on.
Canon 40D : Canon 400D : Canon Elan 7NE : Canon 580EX : 2 x Canon 430EX : Canon 24-70 f2.8L : Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L USM : Canon 28-135mm f/3.5 IS : 18-55mm f/3.5 : 4GB Sandisk Extreme III : 2GB Sandisk Extreme III : 2 x 1GB Sandisk Ultra II : Sekonik L358
Can't you just use a gray card instead of the whibal? It looks like he's just clicking the 18% gray part of the card to achieve proper white balance.
No. First of all, it's not 18% gray. This is not an exposure card. It's a white
balance card. Second, even an 18% gray card isn't guaranteed to be color
neutral, which is the whole issue with a WB source. An 18% gray card, as
used to establish correct exposure, is only guaranteed to give a specific luminosity reading. That is all. The WhiBal is guaranteed to be almost
100% neutral in color, which means, that if you take a photograph of it
in the same light as the subject, you are guaranteed a perfect white
balance reference for the subject.
There seems to be a notion, here, that shooting RAW and using WhiBal are
mutually exclusive. I think the misunderstanding is that you think WhiBal is
used in JPG mode as a WB reference (where you take a shot of what you
consider neutral, and then let the camera set its WB according to that). Even
though you can do that, the main use of WhiBal is in RAW workflows.
You say you can correct WB when you shoot RAW. This is exactly what WhiBal
is for, and it is with RAW in mind that it was created. How can you possibly
set the WB in post if you don't have a neutral source somewhere in the
environment you shot? You can only eyeball it, which is hardly perfect. With
WhiBal (or any good neutral card, it's not like I'm plugging a specific product)
all you do is take one picture of it in the same light as your subject and
then forget about WB altogether. Later in post, if you've shot RAW, all you do
is find the WhiBal shot, use the WB eyedropper to click on the WhiBal card and
apply that setting to all the other pictures. And that's it. So for the effort
of taking one more shot than you normally would, you are assured a perfect
white balance in all your other shots. This is better shown, than told, though.
Here's a video that demonstrates the usefulness of this tool:
No I don't think that at all. My main reason for shooting RAW is so that I can control the EV exposure something you can't do if you shoot Jpeg. I have an ExpoDisc, which I don't use at all...if anything I'll probably be selling it. I used it to control my WB but then realized that I was getting better results shooting RAW...(JMHO).
I suppose we all have our quirks on what we use and what we should not use. I also use NIK Filters (software) in all of my pp. Thanks for the tutorial.
I used it to control my WB but then realized that I was getting better results shooting RAW...
Sorry, but this sentence shows that you didn't really get anything of what I
said. The WhiBal card is there to support RAW shooters. It is exactly for people like you. You want to get better results, so you shoot RAW. Yet
you have no source of a neutral color in your photographs. So you're only
taking advantage of one of RAW's strenghts - the exposure tweakability. You
are not taking advantage of the fact, that you can get a perfect WB,
because you have no way of establishing that WB. Yes, you can change the
WB to your heart's content when you shoot RAW, but how do you know what
is the "right" value to set WB to? You don't. So you do it by eye. You set it to
what looks right to you. But this is not the "real" and "correct" WB that the
shot was taken in. The WhiBal card lets you determine that "real" and "correct"
WB. That is, after all, one of the points of shooting RAW, and, ironically, you
are saying that you shoot RAW so that you can avoid having to use a WB
card. If you think your eye is better than a scientifically measured instrument,
which gives you a reading within a fraction of a percent of perfect, then fine,
I bow to you and will gladly sacrifice a goat in your name. Somehow, though,
I think you may be missing the point and that goat is sleeping soundly tonight.
I like props! Well it depends on what I want to shoot. I was a WW2 jeep collector before I was a photographer. In this picture there is the 1942 Ford GPW, a replica M-1 Carbine and of course the WW2 replica bathing suit, oh and some 1940's sunglasses. Props are fun. Working with a model isn't bad either.
No. First of all, it's not 18% gray. This is not an exposure card. It's a white
balance card. Second, even an 18% gray card isn't guaranteed to be color
neutral, which is the whole issue with a WB source. An 18% gray card, as
used to establish correct exposure, is only guaranteed to give a specific luminosity reading. That is all. The WhiBal is guaranteed to be almost
100% neutral in color, which means, that if you take a photograph of it
in the same light as the subject, you are guaranteed a perfect white
balance reference for the subject.
Listen to Pyrtek, here.
The 18% gray card is for exposure readings, it is not for setting the white balance. Andrew Rodney has discussed this in the Technique thread recently. 18% gray cards are not necessarily color neutral.
The 18% gray card is for exposure readings, it is not for setting the white balance. Andrew Rodney has discussed this in the Technique thread recently. 18% gray cards are not necessarily color neutral.
I've got grey card that is neutral and a prefer it to a white card. I find that it is more accurate to balance for the mid tones than it is to balance for the highlights.
Thuthfully though, I often find that using a neutral card is more work that it's worth. If I am shooting with lights, I don't need it because I know the color of my lights. If I am shooting ambient, the light is often complex and the color varies enough across the scene that the white point I get from the card is often not worth the paper it is printed on unless I take a shot of the card right where the face will be for each pose.
There is another thing that is often missed by using a neutral card to white balance. If you use the a (green-magenta) and b (temperature or blue-yellow) channels to white balance (say in Lightroom or ACR) you are essentially controlling the hue and saturation of the skin tones. It is critical to get the hue of the face right, but the saturation of the skin tones can vary quite a bit and still look good. Often an image looks its best with the whites balanced either cooler or warmer than dead neutral as long as you get the hue of the face right.
All this seems a bit off topic however. I assume Jan was asking about props meant to appear in the final image. I personally don't bring anything because I want to have the portrait represent my client's personality rather mine. One handy prop if you work with kids is a hand puppet to guide their eyes and elicit a smile. However, I usually keep that out of the frame.
There is another thing that is often missed by using a neutral card to white balance. If you use the a (green-magenta) and b (temperature or blue-yellow) channels to white balance (say in Lightroom or ACR) you are essentially controlling the hue and saturation of the skin tones. It is critical to get the hue of the face right, but the saturation of the skin tones can vary quite a bit and still look good. Often an image looks its best with the whites balanced either cooler or warmer than dead neutral as long as you get the hue of the face right.
This is not something that is "missed by using a neutral card". There is nothing
stopping you from tweaking the white balance after taking a reading from the
card. I do this quite often, in fact.
And, yes, this is off topic now that Jan's question has been clarified, so I'll
shut up now.
Comments
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
shoot raw and fix in post......
I do my very best to keep any shoot as simple as possible........
I do not take any PROPS to on location shoots...however I just might pick a flower or 2 to use during a shoot if I am in a park or such...not a botanical park but regular city park........I prefer to use things that the clients are comfortably with...ie their personal stuff......
That's exactly what the WhiBal is for.
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
There's not much to figure out. You just take a shot of the card in the same
light as your subject (it can even be after your shoot) and then use it in post
as your WB reference. You can then apply that setting to all your pics in a
single click and you've got perfect WB for your entire shoot.
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
Yep that's what I do. Cards make it too difficult for me...you can correct your WB and your exposure when you just shoot RAW.
There seems to be a notion, here, that shooting RAW and using WhiBal are
mutually exclusive. I think the misunderstanding is that you think WhiBal is
used in JPG mode as a WB reference (where you take a shot of what you
consider neutral, and then let the camera set its WB according to that). Even
though you can do that, the main use of WhiBal is in RAW workflows.
You say you can correct WB when you shoot RAW. This is exactly what WhiBal
is for, and it is with RAW in mind that it was created. How can you possibly
set the WB in post if you don't have a neutral source somewhere in the
environment you shot? You can only eyeball it, which is hardly perfect. With
WhiBal (or any good neutral card, it's not like I'm plugging a specific product)
all you do is take one picture of it in the same light as your subject and
then forget about WB altogether. Later in post, if you've shot RAW, all you do
is find the WhiBal shot, use the WB eyedropper to click on the WhiBal card and
apply that setting to all the other pictures. And that's it. So for the effort
of taking one more shot than you normally would, you are assured a perfect
white balance in all your other shots. This is better shown, than told, though.
Here's a video that demonstrates the usefulness of this tool:
http://www.whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/02/index.html
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
In addition to my equipment, I can't imagine carrying my own props to a location other than a stool to sit on or step ladder to stand on. Maybe a solid color blanket to lay a baby on.
dak.smugmug.com
No. First of all, it's not 18% gray. This is not an exposure card. It's a white
balance card. Second, even an 18% gray card isn't guaranteed to be color
neutral, which is the whole issue with a WB source. An 18% gray card, as
used to establish correct exposure, is only guaranteed to give a specific
luminosity reading. That is all. The WhiBal is guaranteed to be almost
100% neutral in color, which means, that if you take a photograph of it
in the same light as the subject, you are guaranteed a perfect white
balance reference for the subject.
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
dak.smugmug.com
No I don't think that at all. My main reason for shooting RAW is so that I can control the EV exposure something you can't do if you shoot Jpeg. I have an ExpoDisc, which I don't use at all...if anything I'll probably be selling it. I used it to control my WB but then realized that I was getting better results shooting RAW...(JMHO).
I suppose we all have our quirks on what we use and what we should not use. I also use NIK Filters (software) in all of my pp. Thanks for the tutorial.
Sorry, but this sentence shows that you didn't really get anything of what I
said. The WhiBal card is there to support RAW shooters. It is exactly for
people like you. You want to get better results, so you shoot RAW. Yet
you have no source of a neutral color in your photographs. So you're only
taking advantage of one of RAW's strenghts - the exposure tweakability. You
are not taking advantage of the fact, that you can get a perfect WB,
because you have no way of establishing that WB. Yes, you can change the
WB to your heart's content when you shoot RAW, but how do you know what
is the "right" value to set WB to? You don't. So you do it by eye. You set it to
what looks right to you. But this is not the "real" and "correct" WB that the
shot was taken in. The WhiBal card lets you determine that "real" and "correct"
WB. That is, after all, one of the points of shooting RAW, and, ironically, you
are saying that you shoot RAW so that you can avoid having to use a WB
card. If you think your eye is better than a scientifically measured instrument,
which gives you a reading within a fraction of a percent of perfect, then fine,
I bow to you and will gladly sacrifice a goat in your name. Somehow, though,
I think you may be missing the point and that goat is sleeping soundly tonight.
http://bertold.zenfolio.com
www.42FordGPW.com
Listen to Pyrtek, here.
The 18% gray card is for exposure readings, it is not for setting the white balance. Andrew Rodney has discussed this in the Technique thread recently. 18% gray cards are not necessarily color neutral.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I've got grey card that is neutral and a prefer it to a white card. I find that it is more accurate to balance for the mid tones than it is to balance for the highlights.
Thuthfully though, I often find that using a neutral card is more work that it's worth. If I am shooting with lights, I don't need it because I know the color of my lights. If I am shooting ambient, the light is often complex and the color varies enough across the scene that the white point I get from the card is often not worth the paper it is printed on unless I take a shot of the card right where the face will be for each pose.
There is another thing that is often missed by using a neutral card to white balance. If you use the a (green-magenta) and b (temperature or blue-yellow) channels to white balance (say in Lightroom or ACR) you are essentially controlling the hue and saturation of the skin tones. It is critical to get the hue of the face right, but the saturation of the skin tones can vary quite a bit and still look good. Often an image looks its best with the whites balanced either cooler or warmer than dead neutral as long as you get the hue of the face right.
All this seems a bit off topic however. I assume Jan was asking about props meant to appear in the final image. I personally don't bring anything because I want to have the portrait represent my client's personality rather mine. One handy prop if you work with kids is a hand puppet to guide their eyes and elicit a smile. However, I usually keep that out of the frame.
stopping you from tweaking the white balance after taking a reading from the
card.
And, yes, this is off topic now that Jan's question has been clarified, so I'll
shut up now.
http://bertold.zenfolio.com