Where is Safe to Buy?
In another thread there was talk about buying older model cameras to save some $$$.
That made me think about ways to cut the cost of getting a camera. In my web wanderings I came across eBay (scares me, too many scam artists :hang:) and also this refurb place.
Made me wonder where others feel safe buying cameras at reduced prices on the web?
That made me think about ways to cut the cost of getting a camera. In my web wanderings I came across eBay (scares me, too many scam artists :hang:) and also this refurb place.
Made me wonder where others feel safe buying cameras at reduced prices on the web?
Sid.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
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Comments
I've had good luck using Adorama on the web (bought an EX-550 flash from them). BTW - a few of the large photo stores do sell on E-Bay under pseudonyms. I bought these two new Canon USA lenses on E-Bay from the seller "topcameras" which actually was Adorama:
- Canon 70-200 mm f/2.8 IS USM - $1,604.95
- Canon 24-70 mm f/2.8 EF-L USM - $1228.00
In both cases, the lens arrived new and in perfect condition - as advertised. Personally, I'd use E-Bay again if I knew the seller. However, based on the first-hand stories I've heard, I don't plan on using E-Bay much in the future for anything more than < $10 items.
Marc
Warning!! Be verrry careful about dealing with those Brooklyn outfits. As in, I wouldn't.
Some of their tricks: sell you the camera without the accessories that come as part of the standard package, then get you to pay extra for the accessories; sell you a 'grey market' camera, an import that is not covered by the manufacturer's warranty; really put the squeeze on you to buy extra accessories and ultimately refuse to sell the camera unless you buy some; appear to be agreeable but when it comes time to check out you'll find mysterious additions to your bill that bring the total price into line with other retailers; not have the camera in stock and make you wait weeks, after already charging your credit card.
I would strongly suggest that you avoid these guys and pay more for a more reliable seller. You can always use those online ratings services to see the feedback on the seller you're considering.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Good link, thanks Marc. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
a US and Import version. Price was less for the import. Is there a difference
in the lenses?
Sorry for the hijack.
Ian
Betcha the import isn't covered by manu. warranty.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Marc
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]About USA and GREY MARKET (DIRECT IMPORT) [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What are the differences as far as a customer is concerned? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Primarily, how much the item costs, and where you'd send it for warranty service. Generally, "direct import" items cost less than their "USA" counterparts. [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A "USA" warrantied item is a manufacture's warranty that would be repaired by any manufacturer's authorized service facility worldwide if the item required in-warranty service. A "direct import" item would have to be returned to B&H Photo-Video Corp. in New York City if it required in-warranty attention. A resident of the USA may wish to make the buying decision based on price, since the cost of shipping to an American service center or to us should be about equal. A non-USA resident may want to consider the cost of returning the "direct import" item to us for warranty service, compared to the expense of buying the "USA warrantied" item and having warranty service available locally. [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Another difference is how much the item costs, and where you'd send it for warranty service. [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Simply put, "grey market" means that the item is not covered by the manufacturer's warranty, because the manufacturer's licensed or authorized agent or representative did not import that item into the USA and did not sell it to the retailer to sell it to you. We import the product directly from the overseas manufacturer or distributor, bypassing additional distribution levels. Many manufacturers and distributors therefore coined the negative sounding term, "grey market", for this perfectly legal money-saving activity, namely "direct import".[/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What kind of warranty is available? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Any "grey market" item B&H Photo-Video sells includes a B&H warranty which covers the same particulars the USA warranty would cover for a period of one year. The only difference is that you would ship the item to B&H for warranty service. All you need is your B&H Photo-Video invoice instead of a warranty certificate.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Why offer "Direct Import"? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To give you the option of buying what you want, based on your priorities and budget. Often a "direct import" item is less expensive; sometimes there may be subtle feature or cosmetic differences (examples of which are below). Occasionally, as with some unusual or discontinued items, it is the only way to obtain the item for stock. [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, how did it get into the USA for B&H to sell to you? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quite simply, B&H bought it from another source, and either they imported it for us, or we arranged to import it directly into the USA. In most cases, there is no difference between the "directly imported" item and its USA counterpart. They have the same specifications, same number of elements in the same number of groups. They were manufactured side-by-side on the same assembly line, by the same workers, to the same tolerances, using the same raw materials. They look, feel and perform the same because they are the same. [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Are there ever differences? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sometimes - and when there are we'll say so. For many Nikon, Canon, or Minolta cameras, there are name differences. The Nikon N90s in the USA is marketed as the F90x in Europe and Asia; Minolta's Maxxum line in the USA is their Dynax line overseas; and Canon's EOS Elan IIE in the USA is their EOS 50E elsewhere. Occasionally, there are more substantial differences. Two examples:[/font][/font]
- [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The (now discontinued) Canon 430 EZ flash was available with USA warranty and had a distance scale in feet; in a "grey market" version its distance scale was in meters.[/font][/font]
- [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Canon's EOS A2E in the USA has a "grey" counterpart in their EOS 5. The EOS 5 includes a date back, while the EOS A2E has none, and Canon does not offer one as an add-on. Also, while they share the same exposure circuitry and software, they offer different ways of showing that data in the camera viewfinder to the photographer. [/font][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What happens after the warranty expires?[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Any customer, no matter where he or she lives, would take an item requiring service to any repair shop that is convenient, and pay for the repair.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Which will B&H sell? [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]B&H will sell whichever you prefer. In the B&H store and on the phone, if both types are available, a sales associate will advise you of this and give you the choice. If only "direct import" is available, we will inform you of that, as well. No mention of an option is an indication that only USA is available. [/font]
[/font]
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
ian
I've sold stuff here:
www.keh.com
And I've bought stuff here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2978590366&category=50531
Good deals, good guys.
Someone pointed-out to me the excellent prices available at Inoax. So I checked out the website.
At least two warning bells went off. First is that they're not rated by any of the major ratings outfits... and that they'rve already drawn negative feedback for using some of the usual deceptive practices of the Brooklyn cads (and guess where they're based?)
Secondly, a classic warning sign. On their front page they display the logos of four major Internet retailer certification companies (I highlighted them.) But the logos are dead... no links to any actual certificates giving Inoax a clean bill of health. I've read many times that if you find this... run, don't walk, in the other direction. If they're really and truly certified, those links should work. If they're not certified, they're being deceptive. And that's all you need to know to drop them like a peach with a spider in it.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Those prices are not terribly dissimilar to what I've seen the lenses for on B&H's website. At the moment the 70-200 IS is $45 more after rebate, but the 24-70 is $125 less after rebate, and a surprising $80 less up front (both USA lenses).
If you're looking to save a few bucks then for at least the last couple of years Canon has run "triple rebate" deals at the end of the year where you can get pretty large rebates; look for it. I took advantage of that last year to knock $150 off the $1650 price of the 70-200 IS (included the purchase of two other items, of course). That didn't make it cheap, but it helped take some of the sting out.
The other thing that helped take the sting out is that the 70-200/2.8 IS is one awesome lens. I use the older 28-70/2.8 a lot more, but I like the buttery smooth sharpness of the 70-200 best of my lenses.
jimf@frostbytes.com
Hey Sid, we'll I have over 450 transactions on Ebay with the vast majority of those as the buyer and I've only had 2 or 3 "issues" that were all resolved. The key is to really review the seller's feedback, but if a seller has >500 feedback points and an approval rating of 98% or more, chances are it's pretty safe. At 98%, I'd probably look through and see what types of complaints have been registered against them and I've often found the complaints and complainers are themselves "newbies" that I'd speculate haven't been completely on the up and up themselves or haven't really tried to resolve the problem with the seller before panicking and leaving negative feedback. How long the seller's been registered on Ebay is another consideration that I look at when getting ready to plunk down for some pricey item.
Other places that I've had great success and wouldn't hesitate to deal with again (and have in many cases) have been B&H, Amazon (not their partners), Tallyn's and J&R. Tallyn's is a smaller outfit, but they've been really great to work with on the phone etc. Andy had recommended them (and J&R) to me when I was looking for the Canon 24-105 f/4L a couple of months ago.
Another site to look at is http://www.resellerratings.com/. Not terribly sure how accurate their ratings are, but they seem to be pretty close to what I've heard/seen about some of these outfits when I checked them out. They give Inoax.com a bad rating of 2.45 which is below their "average low rating" of 3.27 for ALL stores...
Hope this helps!
Jack
http://www.SplendorousSojourns.com
Canon 1D Mk II N - Canon 5D - Canon EF 17-40 f/4L USM - Canon EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM - Canon EF 85 f/1.8 USM - Canon EF 100 f/2.8 macro - Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
I'll second all of this. I personally don't use ebay much at all (bought a couple of things, lost a couple of auctions, never sold anything) but my wife buys and sells a lot of miscellaneous stuff. If you sell enough you'll not only get the odd fraudulent buyer, and those have a habit of knocking you for not falling for their tricks, but simple mistakes also happen. A good seller will end up with a few "such-and-such happened, but they made me happy anyway" feedback.
High sales, a long history, and good feedback are an excellent indicator of low risk. But in the end if you don't have a good feeling about a seller, go somewhere else.
I have to say, though, that when I'm buying a thousand-dollar-plus item I am more likely to pay a little more for a safe transaction than if it's a cheaper item. As such, I tend to buy through well-known lower-cost vendors (like B&H or Adorama). eBay has some insurance against fraud but I would rather not have to invoke it on an expensive item purchase gone bad. It works both ways; the vendors are worried about fraud too, especially on big purchases. B&H wouldn't ship me several thousand dollars worth of glass and printing equipment without a fax of my driver's license, even though I had a significant buying history. I don't blame them; they got their fax, I got my 70-200/2.8 IS :-).
Another inexpensive vendor I have used is Beach Camera, but absolutely DO NOT ever buy a gift certificate from them. It's easy enough to buy online but they require to you redeem the physical certificate, you can't type a number into their website. Physically mailing them the certificate is not only a risk it takes a long time; took more than two weeks to get delivery of an item purchased with a gift certificate (they didn't even process the order for nine days after they received the certificate). In contrast regular credit-card purchases are fulfilled very fast, usually within 24 hours; it's just their gift certificates that suck.
Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone else I have done much photo business with.
jimf@frostbytes.com