First critique...

ccpickre

So the other day, a new advisor (his official title has the word "assistant" in it) looked at my portfolio and had nothing but negative comments.

Now, before I get into my questions, I understand it's something you have to deal with. I understand that editors and the like will be overly critical and try to break you down.

But my beef is the fact that this guy isn't even officially an advisor yet. He refers to himself as an "ok photographer", and didn't even have one compliment about anything I did (I take that back, he complimented ONE photo on the color of it, but then proceeded to trivialize it afterwards). Not to mention he basically called me an idiot in front of me to someone else.

Now My beef is the fact that this was not a professional critique. I wasn't applying for a job. It was under the pretense of helping me improve. But he he did was basically point out where I screwed up and proceed to tell me my photos were no good. Even my personal favorites that I was most proud of he said were the worst and useless.

But my question is how did you veterans get over that first hurdle? When you just basically feel like you are in he wrong profession and will never learn how to do it? How do you get reinvirgorated and get the fun back into it?

PS. By the way, this is my first portfolio, and I am limited because I didn't have much work to put into it. So I already was going into this knowing that my portfolio was limited.

Here is the link to the Gallery for my portfolio...
http://mnemosyne.smugmug.com/gallery/3178400

And here are the photos themselves...


For the Rubber Duck Regatta where a campus sorority dumped rubber ducks from trashbags and then the winner won a prize. (he said he didn't want to look at duck's butts)


From the Dyngus Day celebration on Easter Monday. It's a celebration of the end of lent


The Wine Fest celebration


Pet Therapy for Finals Week


Ash Wednesday


Summer Blood Drive


Fourth of July Parade


A gallery showing of a guy who hand makes Kaleidoscopes in various shapes and sizes, for example, a lighthouse that projects a rotating kaleidoscope on the wall


A bee cleaning his tongue (I think)


A violinist


Tooth and Nail Concert


Another band from the TnN concert


From Disney's "Lights, Motors, Action" Stunt Show


From the Mudsling at the County Fair earlier this week (after looking at it online, I think I need to add some red or something, cause it looks green/yellowish I noticed)


A pig named Bucklse Jr at the county fair, during his bath. He found out where water was leaking frmo the hose, and went to town drinking it.


Intramural Water Volleyball Championship


The Cascades Waterall at Cascades Park here in town.

stirfry

I'm sorry you walked away feeling like you'll never learn how to do it ~ I'm not sure that it ever DOES get any easier to hear criticisms. Especially criticisms that seem excessive from where we sit. It sounds like he was most unprofessional in his interactions with you, and I can see why you're frustrated.

I don't have and have never submitted a photographic portfolio for critique; however I have a background in fine arts so I understand the situation all the same. It's crushing to sit and smile politely and gratefully as someone rips apart your work and soul, even when you know they aren't your best efforts.

That said, I've had professors who think they are doing the larger favor by restricting commentary to only what can be improved upon. And I've had professors who are more into guiding me gently towards improvement lol. I think a lot of it boils down to critic personality ~ some folks think you are best served by brutal honesty (I prefer this time of evaluation myself), other folks are better at giving some encouraging feedback along with the critical.

What I've found beneficial to me is to write down or keep a written copy of the critiques I get. Sometimes it hurts when they are fresh. So I put them to the side, and revisit when I've had a chance to calm down and read with a more open, less emotional mindset. And you know, sometimes you have to take into account the audience - his inexperience as a photographer may mean you assign his various critiques different values. Maybe his thoughts on technique weigh less than his thoughts on execution of your concept, etc. Put it all into perspective.

Take the time to feel badly about a poor review. Then get determined to make him eat his words - get out there and shoot!

ccpickre

I have no problem with someone telling me what to improve upon, if they actually tell me what to improve upon. But he left out the part on how to improve

My biggest problem is the fact that with in a few weeks the new photojournalism professor is interested in looking at my work, and I'm just worried that he will think I am a terrible photographer, and wouldn't want to teach me.

Thanks for the help

stirfry

Well that bites!

So it was less of a critique and more of a butt-chewin'?

Why not post a few shots in the forums here, or link to an online gallery. I have no doubt you'll get *constructive* criticism from the folks here, including tips on what and how to improve your work.

Best of luck with the new professor!

ccpickre

The real kicker, he told a new photographer to "take anything I said with a grain of salt" right in front of me. That's what set me off the most. Because everything I told this new photographer was either from my professor (someone who actually taught) and my dad (someone who's been shooting longer than this "advisor" has been alive). So I wasn't telling him anything wrong.

I guess I'm just frustrated and babbling

Justiceiro

I'd rather look at a duck's butt than a horse's ass. Sounds like this is the first of the many people you will meet in your professional life who puff themselves up by attempting to deflate others. There's a few of them about.

I don't mind a critique, even a harsh one. But what distinguishes a critique from criticism is the fact that a critique is oriented towards specific things that will help improve your technique.

You should call him on it. Ask to see his port, and see if he has the balls to trot it out.

BTW, I like most of your photos, particularly the bee photo- the colors on that are quite spectacular. Also, I suck at nature shots and so am impressed by those who can do it. The ducks, sadly, all seem to be OOF. But overall, it's a decent port!

pathfinder

Sometimes when we are obliged to take criticism ( like from someone who is our boss) - a good technique is to write it down verbatim as they are talking about your work.

This does two things very effectively - It says that you are taking their comments very seriously, and it is always good to let your boss know that you take them seriously.

And two, it creates a record for others to see and evaluate your bosses's comments. It is always surprising and interesting how much more carefully people answer questions when they know the answers are being written down. We all tend to be more judiscious in our choice of words, when they are recorded and we will be held responsible for them.

Then when your boss is finished, be sure and genuinely thank your boss for his critique as well. No faking here. Thank them.

Then......later.... look at what was said, and what you see in your images, and decide if you learned anything of value about your vision.

There will always be those folks who seem to want to find fault and not explain how to improve. It takes a lot of effort to critique someone's work carefully, and sympathetically pointing out defects, and then offering suggestions as to how they could be even better. Lots of folks won't put that much effort into the task. It is hard to do a good critique well.

A month or two later, go back over the written comments again, and see if you find anything helpful there.

I love hearing nice comments about my images - we all do - we're human. But we learn more from the folks who carefully, criticize our images relentlessly. It is not fun, I have been there too. But if we learn a better vision, it is worth it. Real growth almost always involves some pain along the way.

I think you have some excellent images here. Could they be improved? Of course, who among us, has images that could not be made better in some manner? It is always easy to see what could be done better after the fact. Shooting real time does not always permit that much reflection at the time - things are happening and then they move on. Part of the trick is being able to predict the action before it occurs.

I think you are doing very good, and are improving as the weeks go by.

(I still think your images will improve by learning to use off camera flash, as done on the Strobist blog .:D )

Angelo

I'd like to know a bit more about you and why you presented to this person.

But I think you already know your own answer... this guy is a no-talent creep, incapable of proffering advice, most probably due to his own personal sense of self doubt. Attacking someone he feels he has some degree of power or superiority over is just plain cowardliness.

As with those ducks; water off your back. OK?

I'm a creative director and as such have to make tough choices every day about the media I employ in my work. Whether it's a staff member or a freelancer bringing me material to consider, I have to always find the best way possible of rejecting work I am not happy with. I always attempt to find something good in what I'm looking at and use that as a means of softening the rejection.

Conversely I always have to prepare myself for rejection by my boss on things I bring him. (Not that it happens often )

Looking at what you've posted here I'd say there's room for improvement in your work, specifically in the area of exposure, however, you demonstrate a definite ability to perceive a shot and compose your work nicely. Stick with your development, pay more attention to your professor and dad and have a good time shooting.

jdryan3

ccpickre wrote:

But my question is how did you veterans get over that first hurdle? When you just basically feel like you are in he wrong profession and will never learn how to do it? How do you get reinvirgorated and get the fun back into it?

I agree with the advice given - give it time. We are often emotionally attached to our creations. Or at least I am. Seek out others, online and at school, whose work you like. And be ready for hearing some things you don't want to. :cry
Listen - don't defend. After a few :whip, you will build up the toughness to sit back and honestly assess what they, even this guy's opinions. What he lacks in social skills he might make up in technical excellence (hey, I'm in IT - I see that all the time!)

From a photojournalistic, quick shot perspective, I like Wine Fest, Ash Wednesday (but crop out everything to the left of the guy), and Summer Blood Drive. The rest are hit or miss, some are OK, others not so. But keep shooting. This can be fun, but it is a craft. A craftsman spends many, many hours working, doing the same thing over and over, just to get it right.

ccpickre

Thanks everyone.

Angelo: The reason I asked him is because our new photojournalism professor is interested in looking at my work, and I want to present my best material because the journalism school rarely allows audits, and I'm hoping that if I show enough potential he may let me do so (so previous professor told me he would never allow me into his class nor did he want to teach me, because I would be nothing more than a hobbyist. His name is Steve Raymer).

Anyway, I was hoping for an honst critique before I presented to the professor because all my friends say I'm obsessing over it and it's informal, but I still want to take it seriously.

Thanks for all your advice, I appreciate it.

And yeah, I always tend to overexpose, I think it's because I rely on my LCCD too much, or just need to start looking at the histogram more critically.

And thanks dad I've been reading the strobist. I'm developing an idea for a hat to attach my flash too, like a beanie But its met some setbacks.

Justiceiro

ccpickre wrote:

Thanks everyone.

A(so previous professor told me he would never allow me into his class nor did he want to teach me, because I would be nothing more than a hobbyist. His name is Steve Raymer).

This is something I have never understood. I once wanted to audit a french class in school because I already had too many other language courses, and couldn't give the French enough effort to make a decent grade. But Iw anted to soak in a bit of it. The prof took the same attitude.

If you love something, then why would you not want to encourage even a casual interest in others? Why would you demand that everyone be enitrely focused on your thing? If you really love something, don't you want to spread it as widely as possible?

This kidn of attitude perplexes me.

ccpickre

Justiceiro wrote:

This is something I have never understood. I once wanted to audit a french class in school because I already had too many other language courses, and couldn't give the French enough effort to make a decent grade. But Iw anted to soak in a bit of it. The prof took the same attitude.

If you love something, then why would you not want to encourage even a casual interest in others? Why would you demand that everyone be enitrely focused on your thing? If you really love something, don't you want to spread it as widely as possible?

This kidn of attitude perplexes me.

Well, Steve Raymer is an interesting case. He is a photojournalism professor here, but he worked for the National Geographic for 25 years (I know this because he told me 3 times in a 5 minute conversation). He told me that since I was nto majoring in journalism, I would be nothing more than a hobbyist.

Now our NEW professor, I talked to the advisor and she took it upon herself to write him and mention me. He wrote me the same day and said he was interested in looking at my portfolio and was glad I was interested in photojournalism.

I've just been paranoid that my photos aren't any good because I don't have a diverse portfolio. My friends at the paper are telling me to stop being so paranoid

claudermilk

ccpickre wrote:

Well, Steve Raymer is an interesting case. He is a photojournalism professor here, but he worked for the National Geographic for 25 years (I know this because he told me 3 times in a 5 minute conversation). He told me that since I was nto majoring in journalism, I would be nothing more than a hobbyist.

So...what's he so insecure about?

schmoo

I want to say screw the photojournalism class, despite the credentials of the guy teaching it. Although it's true he probably is a fantastic photographer, would you really respect his opinion if his attitude was such? Do you think it's possible to be a positive, receptive teacher if your ego is that big?

I think that there are many many many other places to learn about photographer, especially if you are as junior as you think you are. I think your portfolio is fantastic, particularly if you have little experience. While we all have room for improvement I was really amazed at your photos. They tell wonderful stories and offer such creative angles. No hot air here - I was really floored.

Further, not to sound like a suckup but you have a wonderful resource right here in Dgrin, and especially with in your dad. And I have only limited experience with shootouts and workshops here, but Marc Muench was one of the best teachers I have ever had the pleasure to meet - in any field - simply because his personality was so positive, humble and giving. I am not saying that it can replace school, but... bah I think you know what I'm trying to say.

Just my two cents, but attitude is the biggest part of learning. What is the value of beating you down even before you get a chance to start?

Best of luck in your ventures and I certainly hope to keep seeing your photos here!

ccpickre

SCHMOO: I have no intentions of trying to get into Raymer's class. And from what I've heard, his class is basically a semester long look at HIS photos, not photos in general. Some people joke the class should be called 25 years of Steve Raymer, or "My Trip Around the World" by Steve Raymer.

The new professor is the one I'm interested in talking to. Because he is interested in talking to me

And I use Dgrin a lot (when I remember), and my dad will tell you that I probably call home too much asking questions In fact I'm going home for a few days to shoot the Indianapolis Colts Training Camp at Rose Hulman, and my dad is going to teach me some more about my flash as well as give me a bunch of stuff on Photoshop. I use my dad a lot for learning

Claudermilk: I have no idea. There are rumors going around that there is a reason he no longer shoots for the Nat'l Geographic. But he is a horrible professor and I don't think he would have anything to teach me. People say his only purpose is to make his students cry.