Using Huey and CS3 Color Settings
windoze
Registered Users Posts: 2,830 Major grins
If I recalibrate my iMac using Huey, in CS3 under edit --> Color Settings
in "Working Spaces" do i change that to the Huey profile or leave it at sRGB IEC (yadda yadaa yadda)?
troy
in "Working Spaces" do i change that to the Huey profile or leave it at sRGB IEC (yadda yadaa yadda)?
troy
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The display profile is totally independent from the working space used in Photoshop and is only used for previews. Never select a display profile as a working space!
As for sRGB, well it leaves a lot to be desired:
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_colspace.pdf
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Troy is displaying his photos on SmugMug - and ordering prints through SmugMug - so both of those require sRGB.
Make sense?
Other colorspaces have their advantages, sure. But on SmugMug - it's sRGB for the web display, and sRGB for our print lab. Thanks.
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For the amount of printing i do at home, maybe 10-20 4x6's a month, i decided to use sRGB. I get more "fun" seeing my images online and whenever i do sell a print here or there ( mostly there ) I know that Smugmug uses sRGB.
Besides how can I argue with this:http://www.smugmug.com/help/srgb-versus-adobe-rgb-1998
thanx Andrew for the help on this matter and on other threads - i do appreciate your responses!!!!
troy
Oh so 100% of the images will be output here today and forever into the future? And when wide gamut displays become more common, and the only way to view them properly (other than using Safari which is ICC aware) is to use Adobe RGB (1998), then what? And we are all sure the output devices in question will always use sRGB as an assumed color space for all printing? And he should funnel all color into a ridiculously small color space, based on the behavior of a 1993 display from the start instead of using a color space that fully contains all captured colors, when he can easily convert to sRGB for SmugMug? Seems like a poor workflow or at the very least, one that guarantees you're painting yourself into a corner. But it's his data.
One could ask, since the web isn't color managed without the use of Safari, why use the huey anyway? But Troy does appear to be concerned about color matching in applications like Phtooshop so I stand by my recommendation he examine the full role of an sRGB workflow. Yes, it does leave a lot to be desired and no, you don't have to commit fully to it just to post on the web or get these prints output. Troy may actually end up with an Epson 2400, who's color gamut exceeds Adobe RGB (1998).
Make sense?
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
The important thing is knowing your options and why. There's nothing wrong with an sRGB workflow IF you know the limitations and you plan ahead for the future.
Well there's a few things to consider:
Safari for Windows displays everything correctly just like the Mac. Still beta but the point is, Windows users can now view images properly AND identically as we see in Photoshop.
They actually look identical on my Mac. A far better test:
http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter
IF you shoot Raw, save the Raw, what you set on the camera plays no role in the Raw data. Raw has no color space.
As for 'the problem' I don't understand the point here. Say you're not shooting Raw or you're shooting Raw+Jpeg. If the JPEG is Adobe RGB (1998), you can convert to sRGB, no worries. All color space conversion done within Photoshop are conducted in 21 bit precision. If you end up in sRGB, you can't get the colors lost back into Adobe RGB (1998). Just as you can pour a pint into a gallon container, you're not getting a gallon's worth of liquid. The working space is simply a container of varying sizes. They only work in one direction (hence my recommendation to never funnel your color into sRGB from the get go, the additional color data is forever lost).
So there's no problem at all going Adobe RGB to sRGB, going the opposite direction buys you nothing unless you need to composite an sRGB image into an Adobe RGB document, then you must convert to preserve the color appearance. No one would shoot an image in 8x10, crop it for 35mm, process the film and cut out the 35mm portion of the image would they? Why do this with color spaces.
You know the old saying, when all you know is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I have no issues with the above take on the internet. No one's debating it should be simple, and today, 99.9% of all displays behave more or less as sRGB output devices. The debate is when to throw what you may consider precious data. Data that was in the scene, data your camera can and did capture, data you can output elsewhere.
For my 86 year old mom, a point and shoot, JPEG, sRGB to the drugstore workflow is going to be fine forever. She's 86! But she also doesn't use Photoshop or Lightroom, she never will. For those that do (or might), the question is, do you want to throw away data you may, may use???? Only you can answer that. But its useful to know the options. All I want to provide are options in how you think about this.
This web article can be simple. Tell users that sRGB is the most appropriate color space for the web and maybe a few printers. Tell them what happens IF they convert into sRGB from the get-go and tell them they can and probably should work in wider gamut spaces and convert to color spaces based on the output (web, ink jet, press, whatever). Let them know if they convert the master into sRGB, the original colors are lost forever.
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Andrew - Im trying to see what this will do for me.....
In CS3, I changed my color settings to North America Prepress 2, I chose aRGB in ACR, I use a ICC profile appropriate for my ink/printer/paper, i selected let photoshop manage my colors, I "hopefully" turned off the Canon i9900 color mangement, and printed.........................
It looks pretty close to what I see on the screen, so if i now want to convert it for something to use on Smugmug - what do i do next?
I still have to try this and change my canon 30D to aRGB to see if that makes a difference.
BTW, i am in the market for a new printer... any recommendations?
also - i thought that id never be able to understand this stuff but the more i try things the more things are clicking.
I originally thought this would be too difficult but can i just use aRGB when i want to home print and sRGB when im going to use Smugmug?
It seems all id have to do it make "very few" dialog box changes along the way: NA general purpose 2 / NA Prepress 2, not much more than that I dont think????
troy
First off, there's not necessarily any reason to alter the Photoshop color settings. You can stick with sRGB here if you wish. This is only the preferred color working space Photoshop is looking for. The key is having the Preserve policy on. When Photoshop encounters an untagged document, it has to make a guess about its color space. That guess is based on the RGB working space you set. So what you now have told Photoshop is IF you get a document without an embedded profile, assume and more importantly preview those numbers as if they were in Adobe RGB (1998). Are they in Adobe RGB (1998) (or sRGB if you leave the settings as you had)? We don't know, that's the curse of untagged documents.
The next area where setting Adobe RGB or sRGB in the color settings kicks in is based on the warning check boxes. You have one called Profile Mismatch. Its only role is to tell you, "Troy, you just opened a file in ColorMatch RGB. That's NOT Adobe RGB which you told me (via the RGB working space popup) you want as your preferred working space. So I'm telling you this with a warning". IF you just click on the OK button in this warning, the document will open in the color space it came to you as (ColorMatch RGB). That's due to the Preserve policy. You've told Photoshop:
1. I prefer to work in Adobe RGB (1998).
2. If I open a file NOT in Adobe RGB (1998) tell me with a warning
3. IF I click OK, open this file in whatever color space it is in because I am set to preserve all original color spaces.
The bottom line is, you can set the RGB working space to sRGB because you're working with a lot of sRGB documents BUT you can also work in Adobe RGB (1998) , ProPhoto RGB or any flavor of RGB and with the Preserve Policy, Photoshop will allow you to work in those color spaces as you did with sRGB. The only difference is Photoshop will tell you the documents are not in sRGB, the color space you set in the working space popup thanks to the warning check box. If it bugs you to get a warning every time, uncheck it. But keep the Policy set to Preserve. Then all documents will be honored.
The Canon i9900 far exceeds sRGB potential. So shooting in Raw and processing in Adobe RGB or even better, ProPhoto RGB will allow you to use the captured colors on this output device. But note, the gamut of this printer exceeds your display. So its quite possible you'll output more saturated colors than you can view on your sRGB display. See, here's where sRGB for the web is useful but not for the printer. You have a far larger color palette on the Canon. And you can use it if you so desire.
Using the profile for the printer and your settings sound OK (I can't comment on the specific Canon printer settings without seeing them but if there were even a bit off, you'd have one ugly print). So it sounds like you're OK here.
OK you have a document in ProPhoto RGB or Adobe RGB (1998) and you want to post to the web or have on line sRGB prints made. You open the document and use the Convert to Profile command found under Edit. Pick sRGB. The rendering intent for these simple profiles isn't important, they only use a colorimetric intent so just pick Relative. With your Canon and it's profiles, you have more tables in the profile and have access to all four rendering intents. Toggle them and you'll see the image update as you are now viewing a soft proof of your image based on this printer and rendering intent (a useful feature you cannot use on any on line printing service that doesn't provide an output profile and simply asks for sRGB).
Oh, VERY IMPORTANT! If you use the Convert to Profile command, either to make an sRGB conversion or to convert to your Canon, SAVE A COPY! Do not over-right the original master file. That's the only dangerous aspect of Convert to Profile. In fact, you can bypass Convert to Profile when printing to your Canon, or any printer hooked up to your system by instead using the Print with Preview (now just called "Print" in CS3) command. It applies the profiles on the fly as your original master document is sent to your printer.
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Price? I have a Canon IPF5000, Pro 9500, an Epson 3800 and 4800. If I had to pick one, I'd go Epson 3800. Small, fast, and I don't do much roll paper work (that's where the bigger Epson and Canon's would be useful). For the price, the 3800 is hard to beat and I can make 17x22's.
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/