Time Frame?

~Jan~ · July 29, 2007

I had NO idea this would be a problem, but how long do you allow people to order once they're presented w/ proofs? I did senior pics for a girl and it's been almost a MONTH. Her guardian is my friend so I know they'll order, but still. I have 2 other orders kind of hanging, as well. It's easier for bookkeeping purposes to close up order, you know what I mean?

I am thinking of raising my prices and then offering a 10% discount if the order is placed within 2 weeks. Would that help? I don't want to close orders completely w/in 2 weeks, but I want to encourage them to order already!

Cuties02q · July 29, 2007

I let them know that the gallery will be available for 30 days and then if they want to order after that the prices go up. Because I was having the same issues as you.

Elaine · July 29, 2007

Yes, I've heard of this issue a number of times around here. It seems that quite a few people have done what Cuties has done...archive the gallery after a time period and/or raise the prices after a certain amount of time. I'm going to upgrade to a pro account now and will be doing quite a few shoots over the next few months, so I'm thinking of making a statement about this upfront. I'd be interested to know what you decide to do and how it works out!

Elaine · July 29, 2007

I just read a post by Andi in another thread that seems at least somewhat applicable here...

I can't get a link to work, but her reply was #7 under "Online Photo Purchases" under Smugmug Pro Sales Support.

sirsloop · July 31, 2007

I've gotten orders recently on events I did last May!! Keep em up there... whats the problem?

urbanaries · July 31, 2007

sirsloop wrote:

I've gotten orders recently on events I did last May!! Keep em up there... whats the problem?

In my experience, people need deadlines to order. It's human nature. If they're up there without deadlines, they may have orders trickling in long term but I can guarantee they won't make as much money as a shoot with a tight cut-off.

I discount a whopping 20% for orders within the first 72 hours, and take galleries down after 30 days. It has worked really well, but has been a tough transition, and I've been a wuss about extending the deadline when people ask. just last week I had a mom beg me to extend it, and now I'm kicking myself for saying yes WITHOUT A SET TIMEFRAME, as now a week has passed, no activity.

For portait sessions, it just helps my workflow if I can get my shoots archived as quickly as possible. I'm also most excited/motivated about a shoot right when it happens, and get retouches turned around much more quickly!

HTH OP

sirsloop · July 31, 2007

Its worked out well for me. I think what happens is a lot of people order the first week the photos are up for an event. Heck, I've had orders before photos are even done uploading!!

Most of these people are from the same barn, friends, visit the same stores, or are in some way connected. The people that ordered get their photos and some time later they show their friends that were at that event. They say "holy crap those are awesome" and check out my site. Now I have no doubt that is what happens with the orders that were from 6 months ago. The people didn't get a card, didn't visit my gallery, or didn't want to order at the time, but after seeing their friends stuff they order. So by taking down the photos you are throwing away residual income. I'm sure its different in the wedding business, but its been going very well with equestrian work.

~Jan~ · August 1, 2007

I DO plan on leaving the galleries up for a long time, but I also like to have the main order out of my hair right away so I can move on. I keep the shoot on my hard drive until they order, and then after they do I transfer it to CD and delete it. I just think my life would be easier if they'd order in a week or two. Plus, if I ever rely on this income (God willing), it would be even more of an issue.

So, when I switch over to my "real" non-portfolio prices, what I think I'll do is offer a 10 or 20% discount for ordering w/in 2 weeks, and then raise the prices and if they want to order a pic here or there later I will. I think 2 weeks is PLENTY of time for people to talk to family, etc. about it.

Scott_Quier · August 2, 2007

Elaine wrote:

I just read a post by Andi in another thread that seems at least somewhat applicable here...

I can't get a link to work, but her reply was #7 under "Online Photo Purchases" under Smugmug Pro Sales Support.

The thread is here.

And her post is here

I also have a number of galleries/clients who have promised (again and again) that they are going to order prints. Time for me to send them an e-mail telling them that the gallery(ies) are going to be archived in 14 days (or some other reasonable time period) and see if that doesn't get them off the dime.

kapalua · August 6, 2007

hey Jan,
When you said the word "gallery" I immediately knew what your problem was. Online galleries should NOT be used for portrait sessions! Weddings, yes, but not portraits if you want to see any print orders.

At the same time you schedule your photo shoot, schedule an appointment for the client to order their images. Notice I said "order" their images, not "view" their images. If you are not set up to have them come to your office, then go to their home. Then at the ordering appointment you'll show your images one-by-one and get the client to say yes/no/maybe to each image. The best way to do this is by using Proselect software.

Make sure your client understands that - unless they buy the images right there and then - this will be the last time they ever see their images.

Your average order will triple overnight compared to posting images on an online gallery. And no waiting, because they have to order at the sales appointment.

Clients may not say this (or even consciously think it), but there is absolutely ZERO reason for them to order images if they have the online gallery to look at whenever they want.

Finally, to make this really work you can't give away your image files. Sell then for a hefty price maybe, but never give them.

hope that helps,
Laurence Kim

kapalua · August 7, 2007

sorry Jen, just reread your original post and you never said you posted the images on a gallery!

Nevertheless, my advice doesn't change: it is important the sale takes place at a sales appointment, not at the client's discretion, and the client ONLY should get to view their images at the sales appointment. hope that helps

~Jan~ · August 12, 2007

kapalua wrote:

hey Jan,
When you said the word "gallery" I immediately knew what your problem was. Online galleries should NOT be used for portrait sessions! Weddings, yes, but not portraits if you want to see any print orders.

At the same time you schedule your photo shoot, schedule an appointment for the client to order their images. Notice I said "order" their images, not "view" their images. If you are not set up to have them come to your office, then go to their home. Then at the ordering appointment you'll show your images one-by-one and get the client to say yes/no/maybe to each image. The best way to do this is by using Proselect software.

Make sure your client understands that - unless they buy the images right there and then - this will be the last time they ever see their images.

Your average order will triple overnight compared to posting images on an online gallery. And no waiting, because they have to order at the sales appointment.

Clients may not say this (or even consciously think it), but there is absolutely ZERO reason for them to order images if they have the online gallery to look at whenever they want.

Finally, to make this really work you can't give away your image files. Sell then for a hefty price maybe, but never give them.

hope that helps,
Laurence Kim

Hmm, that is an interesting strategy that I've never heard of. How will they share the images with others to see which they want? Often I'll get separate orders from grandma's, aunts, etc. Also, my primary method of word-of-mouth advertising is people sharing their galleries with their friends. Everyone calls and says, "I saw ____'s pictures...." and so on. I really think I need the online galleries at this point in my career, but you are right, I don't think I should keep them up indefinitely.

kapalua · August 13, 2007

~Jan~ wrote:

Hmm, that is an interesting strategy that I've never heard of. How will they share the images with others to see which they want? Often I'll get separate orders from grandma's, aunts, etc. Also, my primary method of word-of-mouth advertising is people sharing their galleries with their friends. Everyone calls and says, "I saw ____'s pictures...." and so on. I really think I need the online galleries at this point in my career, but you are right, I don't think I should keep them up indefinitely.

Hi Jan, this is for the primary client's order. Once the order is complete and delivered, you can then offer to post online so friends/family can view and order. But please remember to put a deadline on the gallery to create a sense or urgency.

byrnphotography · August 13, 2007

Jan,

I am in the same boat. I started my site almost a year ago after I got out of coaching (I still teach) at the request of parents. I sell quite a few photos considering I have yet to advertise in any way or even purchase business cards. Coming up on my second year, I believe I can sell many more photos if I include a deadline. I am thinking about running an ad in the local paper with the news that all galleries will be closed on a specific date. From that point, on new galleries will be open for one month with a discount for ordering in the first two days the gallery is posted. What do you think on the time frames?

By the way, I get an order or two occasionally from months ago but the majority of orders are within the first few days a gallery is posted.

Jeremy

www.byrnphotography.com

Time Frame?

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