Dark, Fast Photos Suggestions

Barbedwire

Hey folks, I am a beginner here in the Flsah area and I have taken up shooting Equine Roping Events for a good friend. I am talking about Roping Horses coming out of a box very fast late at night and I need a flash and some good euipment here to capture these guys. I have a Digital rebel and only the flash on board. I have tried shooting in manual mode using the sports setting and some other settings but still its blury and I can not get good shots. I dont have a bundle of money to spend, but I think I want a flash with bracket. But the new canon flash is very costly. Can you help me with suggestions and ideas of how I could better take those photos and what euipment would I need to look at.

Also let me add a note here, I am shooting in a an arena which is lighted almost like a good football field.!!

ziggy53

You need fast lenses, wide open, and high ISO. I suspect the Canon 70-200mm, f2.8L (either with or without IS) and ISO 1600 should do nicely.

Shoot in Aperture Priority and let the camera choose the shutter speed because the light will vary by location in the event and by how the lights "beat".

If you can get fairly close to the action, a flash can help. It does have to be one of the more powerful flashes like the Canon 580-EX or 430-EX or Sigma 500 DG Super in order to get much distance in an arena. Be careful not to spook the horses by flashing in their eyes.

I doubt that a flash bracket will make much difference because of the distances involved.

Actually, if you have the original Canon Digital Rebel, it is not E-TTL II so you might be just as well with a used 550-EX, but that would mean that if you upgrade to a camera with E-TTL II, like the dRebel 350/XT, you would want to also upgrade the flash.

You might be just fine with the fast lens and high ISO, so try that first.

aktse

I can't help you in the area of flash, but I can make some suggestions of other equipment for dark, fast action shots. You will need a faster lens and that can be *very* pricey. What lens are you currently using? The kit one?

Many people who shoot football use the 85 f/1.8, the 70-200 f/2.8 or the 300 f/2.8, or something similar and most fast lens cost in the thousand dollars+ range for each one. And most shoot in full manual mode or aperture priority mode. Other auto modes (full auto, sports, etc.) don’t usually do very well in low light settings.

Your photos are most likely blurry due to either two reasons -- focus not in lock, and long exposure time to compensate for the large aperture.

For starters, pick up the fantastic plastic -- 50 mm f/1.8 (~$80). You can start by shooting Av mode, f/1.8 with that lens, ISO 1600; it might feel like a toy, but it works very well for that price. It’s a prime lens at 50mm (good length for portraits), and you will most likely want something to “zoom” in closer, but you need to spend the money to do that.

Also, do some searches on football on dgrin and you should find some helpful hints.

There is a reason why some people have skipped meals to save up for a faster lens....

Art Scott

For the lenses take a look at Sigma.....significantly less in cost than Canon......also I would look for a large flash like the Sunpak 622 super or the Sunpak 120J TTL.......or Sigma 500DG super....both around $250 and yes I would look to something like the Stroboframe or Custom Bracket type flash brackets if you are shooting in portrait orientation very ....if shooting in Landscape then no bracket needed as the sunpak 622 comes with an "L" type bracket and the Sigma Flash can sit atop of the camera on the hot shoe but in the end a nice comfortable rotating flash bracket would be the best way to go.....once you start using one you will never want to be with out it when shooting events.......I have yet to see any cameras on board flash that was really worth 2 cents.............and i would have to suggest shooting in shutter Priority as those horse are super fast out of the box

Barbedwire

Fast Dark Action Shots

ziggy53 wrote:

You need fast lenses, wide open, and high ISO. I suspect the Canon 70-200mm, f2.8L (either with or without IS) and ISO 1600 should do nicely.

Shoot in Aperture Priority and let the camera choose the shutter speed because the light will vary by location in the event and by how the lights "beat".

If you can get fairly close to the action, a flash can help. It does have to be one of the more powerful flashes like the Canon 580-EX or 430-EX or Sigma 500 DG Super in order to get much distance in an arena. Be careful not to spook the horses by flashing in their eyes.

I doubt that a flash bracket will make much difference because of the distances involved.

Actually, if you have the original Canon Digital Rebel, it is not E-TTL II so you might be just as well with a used 550-EX, but that would mean that if you upgrade to a camera with E-TTL II, like the dRebel 350/XT, you would want to also upgrade the flash.

You might be just fine with the fast lens and high ISO, so try that first.

Thanks so much for replying, would that lense the F2.8 also fit a new canon 30D or 5D if I were to upgrade cameras also. So it sounds like I need to go the lense route instead of a Flash unit, thanks again for your info and time.

Barbedwire

aktse wrote:

I can't help you in the area of flash, but I can make some suggestions of other equipment for dark, fast action shots. You will need a faster lens and that can be *very* pricey. What lens are you currently using? The kit one?

Many people who shoot football use the 85 f/1.8, the 70-200 f/2.8 or the 300 f/2.8, or something similar and most fast lens cost in the thousand dollars+ range for each one. And most shoot in full manual mode or aperture priority mode. Other auto modes (full auto, sports, etc.) don’t usually do very well in low light settings.

Your photos are most likely blurry due to either two reasons -- focus not in lock, and long exposure time to compensate for the large aperture.

For starters, pick up the fantastic plastic -- 50 mm f/1.8 (~$80). You can start by shooting Av mode, f/1.8 with that lens, ISO 1600; it might feel like a toy, but it works very well for that price. It’s a prime lens at 50mm (good length for portraits), and you will most likely want something to “zoom” in closer, but you need to spend the money to do that.

Also, do some searches on football on dgrin and you should find some helpful hints.

There is a reason why some people have skipped meals to save up for a faster lens....

You are correct I was shooting in sports mode, so that is a problem there !!

I also was using to slow of a shutter speed. I will look into the lenses and leave the flash alone for now. Would a better camera help me in any way like a 30D or 5D???? Thanks for helping me.

HiSPL

A better camera would lock focus *slightly* faster than what you have. But if you invested in better lenses you would be better off. The lenses suggested so far are all winners, Sigma lenses are of high quality and are far cheaper than anything Canon makes save for the "fantastic plastic" already mentioned.

You could also look for the 200 f2.8L which is a bit cheaper than the 70-200 2.8L. The 200 is a great lens that is sharp wide open. The 135 F2L is also a fantastic lens that is hard to beat for the price. If you don't need that type of reach you can find many midrange zooms that are f2.8. I have a Sigma 28-70 f2.8 EX DG that is really fantastic for the 300 or so bucks that it cost. It's hard to beat Sigma, Tamron, and Tokina for a midrange fast zoom. Canon has the pricey 24-70 L that would be the closest thing to it.

Bottom line; Spend your money on the best lenses you can find. They will be an investment that you will keep for years.

Good luck!

HiSPL

I also forgot to mention the Canon 135 F2.8 with soft focus. It is a hidden jewel in Canon's lineup. With the soft focus feature turned off it is a very sharp telephoto lens. The price is right too at 280 from B&H.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12064-USA/Canon_2516A003_Telephoto_EF_135mm_f_2_8.html

aktse

Barbedwire wrote:

Thanks so much for replying, would that lense the F2.8 also fit a new canon 30D or 5D if I were to upgrade cameras also. So it sounds like I need to go the lense route instead of a Flash unit, thanks again for your info and time.

It depends on the lens. The XTi is like the 30D and is a 1.6 cropped body while the 5D is a full frame camera; The canon EF-S lens don't work on a full frame camera. However, most of the lens mentioned in the thread will work on both.

Another decent price mid-range glass is the Tamron Autofocus 28-75mm f2.8 (under $400). I don't know where you're standing, but I really love the 70-200 f/2.8 and I think it's worth every penny; there are very few people who are disapointed with this.

Invest your money on glass and do your research. Also, don't forget buying used...

CookieS

shooting horses the 50MM isnt going to get you close enough to the horses unless you are in the middle of the ring or close to the side. the 80-200 f2.8 and a good flash or pocket wizards and strobes. , but the noise of your older rebel still may be too noisey at 1600.00. There is also the 135 f2.0 that would be nice and sharp. there a nice one in the market place at a great price. The 30D does a great job at higher ISOs as does the 5D but indoors at night you will still need a flash.

I have a 550ex im selling if you want a used Flash that has decent output.