10-22 + flash = shadow

jennifer

Since I got my Canon 10-22 which I use on my 300D, I've been having issues with the flash causing a shadow from the lens. This happens even without the lens hood, so it can't be that. Is it just the position of the flash on the 300D causing it to create this shadow? It's more pronounced the wider I am. Anyone else experienced this? The examples were taken at 10mm, 15mm and 22mm, respectively. Thanks!

ziggy53

jennifer wrote:

... Anyone else experienced this? The examples were taken at 10mm, 15mm and 22mm, respectively. Thanks!

Everyone will have the same problem with the same setup.

You need to either:

Move the flash up, and point it a little down.
Move the flash forward, and add a diffuser.
Bounce the flash off the ceiling.
Some combination of the above.

The first solution generally requires a flash bracket (and off-camera cord), but a "scoop" type flash modifier can also work nicely.

http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3

The second either requires hand-holding the flash or a custom bracket (and off-camera cord).

Try making the flash modifier first (paper will do for a test) and see if that works.

David_S85

Jennifer, are you using the built-in camera flash? Or a unit attached to the hotshoe?

jennifer

David_S85 wrote:

Jennifer, are you using the built-in camera flash? Or a unit attached to the hotshoe?

Sorry, I should have specified. This is just with the built-in flash. I don't have an external flash (on the never-ending list of Things To Buy).

David_S85

That's going to happen with the on-cam flash and a wide lens like the 10-22. Even w/o the (HUGE) lens hood the bottom of most shots will be in shadow with that lens due to it's bulbous 77mm front.

Solutions include a flash unit mounted higher, a secondary light source and not using the built-in flash, or perhaps (more difficult) stitching crops (top half) of a couple vertical shots together.

Antonio Correia

Please try this:

1. Remove the lenshood.
2. Shoot that scene at 3.5 feet away.
3. Repeat, increasing gradually the distance.
4. Use always the same position on the lens for this little experiment.

You will come to a moment where there will be no visible shadow of the lens.

Shooting vertical may "replace" the shadow to a position where you will be able to use the picture.

z_28

Antonio Correia wrote:

Please try this:

1. Remove the lenshood.
2. Shoot that scene at 3.5 feet away.
3. Repeat, increasing gradually the distance.
4. Use always the same position on the lens for this little experiment.

You will come to a moment where there will be no visible shadow of the lens.

Shooting vertical may "replace" the shadow to a position where you will be able to use the picture.

Antonio - Jennifer wrote - "This happens even without the lens hood"

Jennifer - you have basically two options:
- buy some kind of external flash
- don't use build-in flash with this lens

Not too much help, but it's all.

Antonio Correia

z_28 wrote:

Antonio - Jennifer wrote - "This happens even without the lens hood"

Jennifer - you have basically two options:
- buy some kind of external flash
- don't use build-in flash with this lens

Not too much help, but it's all.

Oops

sirsloop

Thats gonna happen when you use the pop-up flash. The lens is too wide (physically), and its got a wide zoom...so that includes basically any of the L zoom lenses (16-35, 17-40, 24-70, 24-105), the 10-22. If you look at the camera backwards while the flash is up you'll see why no light gets to the bottom of the frame. You will also notice at wide angles that the flash does not cover the area evenly. At 10mm you really have A LOT of area to cover, even with a 580 and a diffuser.

Solution, any off-shoe flash will eliminate this problem. Yes, it'll cost you at least a hundred bucks for a half decent one, but it'll bring your photography tool set to a new level. The difference between a ho-hum flash photo and a WOW flash photo is usually an off-shoe flash with a properly executed bounce or diffuse job. Actually, a perfect flash photo is when you can't tell its a flash photo.. aint gonna happen w/ the pop up

Antonio Correia

Excuse me but here I am again.

Please look at this thread.
The lens used was the 16-35 on a 20D at 16mm !

Unless the 30D is much different from the 20D in terms of crop factor, I think that, removing the lenshood and testing the way I wrote before, may come to good results.

In this picture I took the lenshood out and it worked well as you see.
I was at 16 mm according to the photo info.

I don't know how far I was from Miguel, but may be some 2/2.5 meters away.

Then, your lens is 10-22 and mine is the 16-35.
If I can do it, so can you.:D

Care to try ?:D


Teach me if I am wronge IYP ! D

In the previous thread when I was saying "Use always the same position on the lens for this little experiment." for position I mean lens milimeter: 16 mm

claudermilk

Fill flash is still different from using flash as a primary light source. I'll bet you were at the edge of getting a shadow, though with fill it wouldb e much less noticeable. I've had the same problem with my 20D built-in flash & the Tokina 12-24. The real solution is to get a flash unit & get it away from the lens; this is part of why the built-in flashes kind of suck. Oh, and Rebels, 20Ds, and 30Ds are all 1.6 crop APS-C sensors.

jennifer

Thanks everyone for all your replies. I had a feeling I was pretty much stuck with it unless I want to invest in a flash unit. I generally try not to use the built-in flash because I just don't like the way the pictures look with it. But sometimes as you know it's unavoidable. I undertand my examples were a bit extreme (as Chris mentioned), but I sometimes get unusable results even with the fill. I'll just have to remember to shoot less wide if I'm going to be using the flash, or frame it so that it'll be croppable later. Of course once I win the lottery, this will be a non-issue

ziggy53

jennifer wrote:

Thanks everyone for all your replies. I had a feeling I was pretty much stuck with it unless I want to invest in a flash unit. ... Of course once I win the lottery, this will be a non-issue

Jennifer,

Sorry for my reply. I am currently using cameras that don't have a built-in flash, so my mindset is to always use an external flash.

Even a simple auto flash can be a major improvement over the built-in flash. Look at the Sunpak 383 as a very reasonable solution. It allows considerable movements beyond the straight-ahead, and it is that flexibility that will make you a better photographer, once you learn how to use it.

ziggy53

David_S85 wrote:

Jennifer, are you using the built-in camera flash? Or a unit attached to the hotshoe?

Thanks David. I can be such a dunce at times.

jennifer

ziggy53 wrote:

Jennifer,

Sorry for my reply. I am currently using cameras that don't have a built-in flash, so my mindset is to always use an external flash.

Even a simple auto flash can be a major improvement over the built-in flash. Look at the Sunpak 383 as a very reasonable solution. It allows considerable movements beyond the straight-ahead, and it is that flexibility that will make you a better photographer, once you learn how to use it.

Thanks, Ziggy! I didn't specify from the start that i was using the built-in flash so no worries there. Thanks for the tip on the Sunpak. I was thinking I'd have to jump right in with the Speedlite 580 but the Sunpak may be a good alternative if I just want to get my feet a little wet.

Antonio Correia

Antonio Correia wrote:

Please try this:

1. Remove the lenshood.
2. Shoot that scene at 3.5 feet away.
3. Repeat, increasing gradually the distance.
4. Use always the same position on the lens for this little experiment.

You will come to a moment where there will be no visible shadow of the lens.

Shooting vertical may "replace" the shadow to a position where you will be able to use the picture.

The camera was at 3,28 feet (1 meter) hight.
Away from the wall 3,28 feet (1 meter) - 1.st shot
Away from the wall 3,28 feet * 2 (2 meters) - 2.ed shot
Away from the wall 3,28 feet * 3 (3 meters) - 3.ed shot
It doesn't matter here if the 1.st pic is out of focus.
I marked the areas where a shadow is comming.
Lens at 16 mm on a 350 D.
Lens: 16-35 f/2.8 - Important because of it's size.
Lenshood around my left arm, near my watch.
It's pretty neat that - on the 3.ed pic - what happens to the right will happen to the left.