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The Empty Challenges
damonff
Registered Users Posts: 1,894 Major grins
These challenges really need some work. A few months ago, we asked that they be more objectively judged since one person's opinion is at best benignly subjective and at worst autocratic. If someone does not live up to their challenge responsibilities, it shouldn't be left up to the challenge host to choose someone else of like mind to choose the finalists. That they agree on 70% of the photos is not good. It would be better if they agreed on none. My concern is that, once again, I think that the judging is biased and unfair. I don't want to step on anyone's toes so I won't go into the choices for finalists but suffice it to say that the choices were suspicious. We really need to explore having a full democracy as far as voting. We don't have that many entries. We could vote for all of them. Put them in a list and vote. This choosing by Andy and Shay is bogus. We need more eyes on the challenge. Obviously there is a look that is being chosen every time. For me, it's not a big deal. I'm worried about other new photographers who may have a style that is not being praised who would maybe give up because they are not taking golden head shots or photos of dogs. Come on people...we all know the challenges have been and continue to be unfair and bogus. There needs to be a house cleaning.
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Oh, and Damon, I've noticed. But I've also noticed that I don't think it would make much difference. If you look at the voting, the people participating tend to always go with the "flavor" around here anyway. I think I've just come to accept that I don't really fit the predominant style a lot of the time, especially for the challenges.
Sometimes I feel like saying something too, but I think what is more important is to keep the site growing, to the point where it will improve what you are calling out as a bias. While I do horribly in the challenges, I know that the judges are fair. In fact, I've submitted things to challenges, gotten no votes, then received a PM from a certain judge/mod saying "dude, i have no idea why you got no votes, that was a technically perfect shot - but too abstract?".
Good things have to grow. I still get a ton from this forum... the Flea Market is growing (sold 2 things there this month, bought 1), we have a sports forum now (definitely not puppies and portraits), so I'll continue to dgrin and bear it on occasion when I know I don't fit in to the challenges.
Here's an idea, right now we have an "other shots" forum which seems to broad, and we just made a new sporting goods forum, how bout an abstract or macro or heavily photoshopped forum? Fred Miranda, for example, has all of these. I'd volunteer to moderate it, or you Damon?
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
He does a good job overall IMO. Yes, he has styles I think he prefers. Amazingly enough, I thought one would be in the finals for sure this week, and it wasn't. Shots I put up that I am not serious about at all, they are the ones I have won with. And they were picked. I always advise people not to use dogs as the subject, I know you just pulled that out of the air, but I have never, that I remember, seen one picked.
I would just take this as the real world, or a small part of it. I would treat the challenges, if you want to take part, as a client. That client is going to like certain styles over another. You can choose to try to please the client, or decide to decline to be the photographer for that person or group. I gave up trying to please Andy a long time ago. I really don't know what he likes. I don't think he likes blurred shots, for the most part, I don't think dogs will be picked, for the most part. But I am always surprised by the actual picks and the non picks. So I just do the best I can til I am happy with it, then I put it on the challenge. The challenge just gives me subjects and an incentive to shoot.
This is kind of like the real world, it is not fair. However it is well run. I also have put things in Fred Miranda's assignments. That is the beauty of this thing, one can get many different judging situations with all the different forums that have grown up. I don't expect to win at Fred Miranda's. I don't care. However just by posting there, too, I am noticing a certain bias in that atmosphere that is not compatible with my style at all. It annoys me so much, I keep posting the same type stuff.
There is dPreview, so that is three different places, if you include dGrin. And I know there are also many more. All are probably run by the style of the founder, or the person who does the most work. There is nothing to stop someone from making a career of entering challenges on the internet, with different biases, I am sure.
Now Kodak's photo of the day, that group must be totally biased and unfair. They should all be replaced! I have sent many good photos in, and I have heard nothing, zip.
Another thought, many new people are being chosen for the finals here. Some of them are winning.
This is my home group, I do feel more comfortable here than anywhere else, so I stay here. I have had my disagreements, I may have more. But I am not running this place. I don't want to run this place. Etc. So I cannot help but respect the person who is.
I liked a lot of photos that were not "chosen" Monday, I liked the ones that were. My choices may have been different, but then again, so would yours.
I am content to have Andy do the choosing if that is what he wants. I respect his decisions and his knowledge of photography as far as it goes. I think we all have biases. In the real world, even in a learning situation such as a school, we learn that we have a choice, to play to the person in charge, or to not. Then the consequences are ours.
Damon, I really, really liked your photograph. I also really like Andy's photographs of musicians in the city, whether London or NYC. I do not have an answer other than what is.
ginger
Your complaint has been acknowledged. Thanks for your feedback. If you have any specific ideas for improvement, please PM them to the challenges moderator.
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Let's move on, kids.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson