Drop 4x6's

Nimai

A photographer friend of mine suggested I make 5x7 the smallest print I have for sale. She feels that the 4x6 format is too common. It's great for getting 100 prints of a family vacation and sticking them in an album, but I'm selling photos of peoples kids at school events, mostly, and they'll buy 1 to 4 prints of their children at a time. I can see having prints as 5x7's having a better impact. Maybe making 5x7 the default somehow would be a good compromise. I'd like to know some other opinions on this.
Thanks!

urbanaries

Nimai wrote:

A photographer friend of mine suggested I make 5x7 the smallest print I have for sale. She feels that the 4x6 format is too common. It's great for getting 100 prints of a family vacation and sticking them in an album, but I'm selling photos of peoples kids at school events, mostly, and they'll buy 1 to 4 prints of their children at a time. I can see having prints as 5x7's having a better impact. Maybe making 5x7 the default somehow would be a good compromise. I'd like to know some other opinions on this.
Thanks!

This is interesting...I am really frustrated with this situation, myself.

I shot an engagement session for a couple who booked me for their wedding (coming up in four weeks). We spent a couple of hours on the canal, and the pictures turned out really well. Lots of emotion, good variety of locations, etc. I spent a LOT of time doing custom PSing for them, at no cost, because one of his eyes didn't open up all the way when he smiled. Then they wanted me to take down about half the photos before they sent the gallery to their relatives, then OOPS they want to add them back, etc. I give clients 30 days to order, of course on the 29th day they need more time. Three weeks after they asked for more time, they order ten 4x6es, and ask for retouching on four of those.

I am trying not to take this personally, I just honestly don't understand how they justify going to all this trouble with the photoshoot, and only want tiny shots that will sit in an envelope for eternity, we all know they will. I'm so upset and I normally don't get emotional about things like this. They clearly have no respect for the amount of time I've already spent on them, the nicer I am, the more they take advantage. How on earth can I make a living at this with the pervailing attitude?

Elaine

Andi shared this with me when I asked her for some pointers for my site...I don't think she'd mind me sharing...


,,,one thing that drives me CRAZY is having to fully edit 100 4x6 photos and then replace them all. So I've started changing it so that my 4x6 prices for the public are the same as my 5x7 prices - that way I dont' feel like I'm spending too much time on something I get paid very little for. But for family and friends, I put a disclaimer that 4x6 prints do NOT get fully edited - they get color corrected, cropped, etc, but not pulled into PS for blemish removal or stamping anything out. It's just too tedious and with such a small print, it probably won't show up that well.

urbanaries

Elaine wrote:

Andi shared this with me when I asked her for some pointers for my site...I don't think she'd mind me sharing...


,,,one thing that drives me CRAZY is having to fully edit 100 4x6 photos and then replace them all. So I've started changing it so that my 4x6 prices for the public are the same as my 5x7 prices - that way I dont' feel like I'm spending too much time on something I get paid very little for. But for family and friends, I put a disclaimer that 4x6 prints do NOT get fully edited - they get color corrected, cropped, etc, but not pulled into PS for blemish removal or stamping anything out. It's just too tedious and with such a small print, it probably won't show up that well.

Thanks Elaine, and this is what I'm planning on doing, IF I offer 4x6es at all.

I guess my larger question is, WHY are people satisfied with 4x6es? WHAT am I doing wrong that my clients don't consider the work we're producing together, as artwork they've commissioned for their walls? I just don't get it.

~Jan~

urbanaries wrote:

Thanks Elaine, and this is what I'm planning on doing, IF I offer 4x6es at all.

I guess my larger question is, WHY are people satisfied with 4x6es? WHAT am I doing wrong that my clients don't consider the work we're producing together, as artwork they've commissioned for their walls? I just don't get it.

In my experience, my clients are ordering what they like in 5x7's and larger, and then one of each photo in a 4x6. I plan to do what was mentioned above--make my 4x6 price the same as 5x7. My shots are not meant to sit in an album, KWIM? I work too hard on them for that. If they want one of each shot, they can get a proofbook.

urbanaries

~Jan~ wrote:

In my experience, my clients are ordering what they like in 5x7's and larger, and then one of each photo in a 4x6. I plan to do what was mentioned above--make my 4x6 price the same as 5x7. My shots are not meant to sit in an album, KWIM? I work too hard on them for that. If they want one of each shot, they can get a proofbook.

hey Jan, where do you get your proofbooks?

Nimai

That's not a bad idea, making 4x6 prices the same as 5x7's. I would really wish for a way to make 5x7 the default size, then! Any one heard of any such feature or hack?

Thanks-

claudermilk

Nimai wrote:

That's not a bad idea, making 4x6 prices the same as 5x7's. I would really wish for a way to make 5x6 the default size, then! Any one heard of any such feature or hack?

Thanks-

Nope. Just an observation: there is no point in trying to hack or modify the product offering. SM and their labs offer what they offer. If you hacked the list & added a 5x6, they wouldn't know what to do with that since they don't offer it.

sirsloop

Nimai wrote:

A photographer friend of mine suggested I make 5x7 the smallest print I have for sale. She feels that the 4x6 format is too common. It's great for getting 100 prints of a family vacation and sticking them in an album, but I'm selling photos of peoples kids at school events, mostly, and they'll buy 1 to 4 prints of their children at a time. I can see having prints as 5x7's having a better impact. Maybe making 5x7 the default somehow would be a good compromise. I'd like to know some other opinions on this.
Thanks!

I dropped 4x6 as well... hate em. I know lots of people are just out to get the cheapest print available. I'd rather them buy a 5x7. I've only had one person ever specifically request it...

Nimai

claudermilk wrote:

Nope. Just an observation: there is no point in trying to hack or modify the product offering. SM and their labs offer what they offer. If you hacked the list & added a 5x6, they wouldn't know what to do with that since they don't offer it.

YIKES!! Sorry for that type-o! I certainly didn't mean to say 5x6!

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled topic here...

claudermilk

No problem. I think the way to make 5x7 the default is to not offer the 4x6--if you don't have a price it shouldn't show up as an option, so the smallest would be your priced 5x7.

GJMPhoto

Hold over from my medium format days ... no 4x6's
I've had 5x7 as a minimum size for 19 years. It's a hold-over from my medium format days ... where my film labs would have to print a 5x7 and cut it down to make a 4x6! They'd charge me the same amount as well.

In general, you'll sell the most of the smallest print you show...so consider what you show as a minimum size.

I also take the approach of charging the same for 5x7 as 4x6 when I'm pressed to make a 4x6 (for an existing frame, album, or to match another photo the customer already has). That's a pretty good encouragement to go the 5x7 route.

- Gary.

kara*

I do the same thing as quite a few photographers here & elsewhere. I have one price for "5x7 and smaller" on my price list. People feel like they should order a 5x7 instead of 4x6 because they're getting more for the money.

So, people ordering 4x6 prints is not my problem... mine is that they don't usually order anything over 8x10. : I want my photographs to adorn my clients' walls, not just sit in a little frame on the fireplace or in an album. I think I'm going to build this into session prices in the future... so they can get a 16x20 or the same value applied to a larger print with their session, but they can't apply it to small prints instead. Hmm... Or maybe they just don't know how awesome large prints look... I SO need to get some samples.

Art Scott

All of my hanging prints are no smaller than 16 x 20 double and triple matted and framed....they look huge.....some are 24 x 36 I have nothing smaller than 8 x 10 in my books (portfolio's).....just don't want to encourge the sell of itty bitty prints....If I do team photos I offer 5x7 individuals with 8x10 team....
I stop at 5x7 and then drop to wallets.....do not do 4x5 or 4x6 or 3.5x5....just won't do it..........:D

Bill_M

I can relate...I love the idea of eliminating 4x6 from the choices...in fact, I just did. My gallery pricing has been updated.

Thanks,
BIll

urbanaries wrote:

I give clients 30 days to order, of course on the 29th day they need more time. Three weeks after they asked for more time, they order ten 4x6es, and ask for retouching on four of those.

Tandem

I offer all of the sizes but I've noticed that when I crop to 5x7 I sell more 5x7's and larger. I think that once my customers notice that they have to crop the 5x7 to get a 4x6 they start looking at other options.

urbanaries

Tandem wrote:

I offer all of the sizes but I've noticed that when I crop to 5x7 I sell more 5x7's and larger. I think that once my customers notice that they have to crop the 5x7 to get a 4x6 they start looking at other options.

That is a fantastic idea!!! So simple, yet it makes so much sense.

wetbarn

Drop 4x6s
I dropped 4x6s last winter and I have only had one request since. The request was from a previous customer who bought quite a few 4x6s. Unfortunately, she did not buy any 5x7s after I told her that the 4x6s were no longer available.

I know that some people are very interested in 4x6s as they are familiar with the format and it fits their albums. My wife is one of these people. I simply cannot justify selling at reasonable 4x6 prices.

I have asked SmugMug for the option of offering two 4x6s as opposed to a single 4x6. If I sell (a package of) two 4x6s for the same price as one 5x7, I actually make more profit. The customer is happy and I am happy. So far, no movement towards this by SmugMug.

I'm not comfortable with pricing a single 4x6 at 5x7 prices, but I would be very comfortable selling a customer two 4x6s at 5x7 prices.

Come on SmugMug. Help me out here. :help

photogmomma

Elaine, I was just about to post that! !

My thoughts since I started only offering 4x6 prints for the 5x7 price: I've only sold ONE! and I don't mind editing it because they are paying a big premium for it.

But my sales went from $250 in 4x6's with one or two 5x7's to 4 prints at the same cost to them.... Now I *know* they are caring for my photos, they cherish them, they hang them and LOVE them. (Well, I assume so if they're paying that much money for only 4 of them, anyway!) And I know they aren't collecting dust in an album anymore....

I don't mind having them print a 4x6 - heck, I make more money off it this way - but I'd MUCH rather know they LOVE their photos, agonized over their favorites and will truly enjoy what they purchase. And I know they didn't before....

My sales definitely didn't change a lot. (Well, the few that I've had since, anyway! And I thought they'd drop, but they didn't!) And I feel better about the things I'm selling, too!

HTH!