Straight Up
indiegirl
Registered Users Posts: 930 Major grins
One of these or keep shooting?
Image #1
Image #2
I like this series but I am worried about the whole bias against children for this contest (See critique #5. I admit, I agree with this view, though I think it's true for any image of any human. Kids are more easily endearing than adults and that is why I think there is a bias.) Also, from a personal standpoint, I'm trying to branch out in my work. I can take honesty and criticism, all I ask is that if you have feedback you give it!
I like that these images have instant context. Do they elicit emotion in you?
Image #1
Image #2
I like this series but I am worried about the whole bias against children for this contest (See critique #5. I admit, I agree with this view, though I think it's true for any image of any human. Kids are more easily endearing than adults and that is why I think there is a bias.) Also, from a personal standpoint, I'm trying to branch out in my work. I can take honesty and criticism, all I ask is that if you have feedback you give it!
I like that these images have instant context. Do they elicit emotion in you?
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SF2 Entry 22 votes
Submit image #1
18%
4 votes
Submit image #2
4%
1 vote
Neither, keep shooting
77%
17 votes
Fix this first: (then you post your feedback)
0%
0 votes
0
Comments
Now ..........to your shots. They do have context and the lighting is sweet. I like the 2nd shot best of the two. For this caliber of competition, I would say you are not quite there yet, so don't stop trying! I wish I could offer some better C&C, as I can't seem to quite finger what's missing. I will say your shots are better than anything I've come up with yet and in general, it is a nice series of shots. (My voting is only hitting about 60% so take that into consideration....I may be totally wrong!!!
I agree with Susan on the judges' preferences bit - children do not appear to be a particular favourite, but, if your photos have enough oomph to sideline other photos, I think you will stand a good chance. I have admired several of your children entries in this challenge (and they have been winners too!) , so I don't think you should rule this option out.
Re: your two possibilities, they are nice, but mostly I think lack a focal point/and or story. For instance it is not immediately clear to me as to what your daughter (I presume) is working at...
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Cheers,
Sunita
Good luck... I'm having a real hard time comming up with something that would remotely have a snow balls chance in hell of being choosen as a top ten shot... the first 3 posted just blew me away!:cry
Winston
To go further, I don't think, despite the statements that we've seen, that the judges have a grudge against shots of children so much.
I think, it's more that people often tend to photograph their own children and as a reslt, the shots sometimes contain an aspect of feeling or memory that only the photographer has. When someone else looks at the photo, the same message can't be received because the entire message is not present.
The photos don't necessarily stand on their own to express a message to any viewer.
I think, if you want to take a photo of a child, then take it of someone elses and then critique it. If it still has a strong message then consider shooting your own kids (maybe shooting isn't the right word there, but sometimes it might be...:D).
So as far as the judges comments have gone, I would tend to agree to an extent. At times, photos of children can have a weak message because part of it is in the memory of the photographer and not all in the image.
Regards,
Peter
Cons:
1. You run the risk of repeating yourself, as you already had that smashing BW closeup that took the cake in Joy or Sorrow.
2. Kid shots are fantastik, I love them, but to follow on what Peter just said, if you took a shot of the same scene with a different set of kids, would you be moved about it, or would you even put it up?
Pros:
1. I think for an SF round we should stick with what we are good at, not try to climb Everest with a new technique or direction, and you are good at shooting kids!
I wouldn't let a critical comment about kid-shots let you stray from what you are good at. Even Saurora has a knack for kid-shots, from a very different perspective, even I think very different ideas on post-processing, but don't let it sway you, as this is a full poplular vote in this round!
And alas, even I am trying to figure out what to do as far as sticking with what I do best or climbing Mt. Everest in this SF round, so go figure....
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Not quite (sorry if I misunderstood).
Judges pick top 10 and then public vote out of them for first. Only the final showdown is full public vote from the start.
Regards,
Peter
Well, OK... My bad... Let's just all stop trying to taylor make our photos for a narrow group of judges....
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
I'm certainly glad that folks are actualy taking the time to read my critiques- I also hope that what I am saying doesn't come across as "elitist"; that certainly isn't the spirit in which those words are intended. I think it is fair, however, to air one's biases publicly to the folks that submit to competitions. I'd rather people lay out what they look for than to try and grope in the dark for it.
Let me qualify what I'm on about re: the kid shots in this competition. It certainly is possible to take bad kid/pet/family shots. People do it all the time. Rarely do the folks on this site submit shots that I would consider "bad," most folks pay to much attention to their craft, at this level, for that to happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's rare. Certainly the family type shots submitted last round (like the sand castle architects) were very good shots. The problem is that the caliber of the competition is insanely high in the LPS. Out of the 80 shots submitted, I would say less than 10 were "throw aways" where people were submitting stuff simply in order to submit something. The rest of them were very, very good.
The problem is, in my opinion, when you submit child shots, or wedding shots, or things of that nature, is that the "classical" type of child or wedding shot serves a very specific purpose.
It's purpose is usually to call to mind a specific pre-existing emotional connection to the subject. If that emotional connection does not already exist, it is tough to compare it work that doesn't rely on that sort of situation. The person submitting the photo has to divorce themselves from their personal connection to the photo, and view it from behind the equivalent of a sort of "veil of ignorance." This is, at least to me, almost impossible to do. Even my evaluaton of my own non-family shots suffers from the interference of this sort of "noise." I find that the shots that I like the best are not the favorites of other people. Taking an objective view is very very difficult.
Let me make it very clear that I did not have this response to any of the shots that I critiqued for the last thread, but sometimes I look at a photo and want to say "why did you bother submitting this?" I hesitate to say this sort of thing, because (particularly for a beginner, which we all were at one point) throwing something up on the board and having people crap on it egregiously can be quite disheartening. Better to say nothing than to make people want to stop trying to improve, or to give up all together. If my critique of certain people's photos is strong, its because I think they an handle it- due to the fact that they demonstrate skill.
That being said, "cuteness" isn't an aspect of photography that does anything for me, personally, and I think it is legitimate for me to say that. Other people may be all about cuteness. Let them vote as they please. As I said before, de gustibus non est disputandum- "taste" is not a thing that can be argued. There is no universal formula for what makes a good photo- I like, very often, photos that are typically considered, from an aesthetic point of view, "ugly." Other people, no matter how well done and freighted with meaning an ugly photo is, will never vote for it because its ugly. There is simply no accounting for taste.
Except as regards the issue of selective coloring, which is simply wrong. As obviously wrong as, say, wearing extremely baggy pants, a similar social evil. Normally I am a tolerant individual, but there are limits. Civilization must be maintained.
I agree absolutely. It's not that I automatically discount shots with kids or pets (the "dog behind the bars" from Saurora was one of my favorites from the oppresion/freedom entry thread). I am not going to vote against something just because it has a kid in it. Had I had the capacity to select the top 10 for that round, I would have chosen that photo.
But I do think you ought to keep in mind that this is your themeless opportunity to submit the best possible shot that you can take anywhere, of anything. It ought to be the shot of your life. Is that a shot of your kid? If it is, then by all means submit it. If I agree, I will vote for it.
I also think it's important to recongize that I am not a judge, will never be a judge, and that most of my opinions about aesthetics are at odds with most of the folks that participate here. So take whatever I say with a largish bag of coarse grained salt.
Another question, I ask...Is this hangable...would anyone want or think of hanging this on their wall, or puchasing it for someone else??
Love your shots though Jesse, and I can relate to them as a parent, but how many other people will get that feeling, or try to get the feeling, or for that matter remember when they were a child?
My point is that there are such diverse ways to judge that 5 judges can't represent the way the majority would think, so don't try to read the judges's minds, as you can't ever tell.. Let's look forward to the constructive feedback we get on things we can't see until someone else points them out..
So Ryan, I feel overly priveledged to have had your feedback on LPS10.
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
I totally agree with that...
I'll shoot what I want to shoot and if the judges happen to agree then it's a merry time all around. But if they don't, then I'll survive.
Regards,
Peter
I voted for the keep shooting option, but not without giving it a lot of thought first. I adored your sisters top ten winner and love these two pictures, especially #1 -- the light, the conversion, the subject matter. So I struggled to figure out why I thought you should keep trying for SF#2. The best I could come up with is that, for me, the blocks, shelves, etc. are too distracting. Context (Shay has pounded home again and again) is key but here there are too many thingies drawing the eye away from the child's activity that don't add anything extra to the story.
As for children as subjects, I think they have done quite well in the LPS
challenges - much better than they did under the old system. So I wouldn't give up on this idea.
Finally, the SF are a time to play to your strengths. So go for it with something you love to photograph. Best of luck.
Virginia
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
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