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Need help building a light box - a BIG light box
I have been given an assignment by a new client...my mom. "Please shoot pictures of my antique lighting for insurance, cataloguing and for an auction portfolio some day in the future. I can hire you or I could hire a professional to do it." So... I can't turn that job down. I said "yes" of course lol3.
Many of the pieces are dark black dull metal - not the easiest to shoot I would think. We're talking many many hundreds of shots - from different angles - so reliable and repeatable results are needed.
All I've seen on the net are examples of common sized light boxes made with a cardboard box, some stiff rolled paper, and either 2-3 flash units in synch or some quartz work lights. All fine and good for the small items under 12 inches high. I'm up to the challenge of building a light box; that's no problem. But... some pieces are 36 inches high, wide, deep, or some combination. :huh
This no doubt means two light boxes - one small and the other ginormous.
So how do I bulid a light box big enough to handle pieces so large? Anyone ever done that? I'm figuring I'll need extremely stiff non-glossy paper for the "floor" and background about 48 or maybe 60 inches wide, and then much longer to extend up the back. Where do I find paper like that? And I might need colors other than white.
Any links, hints, pictures, experiences are greatly appreciated!
Many of the pieces are dark black dull metal - not the easiest to shoot I would think. We're talking many many hundreds of shots - from different angles - so reliable and repeatable results are needed.
All I've seen on the net are examples of common sized light boxes made with a cardboard box, some stiff rolled paper, and either 2-3 flash units in synch or some quartz work lights. All fine and good for the small items under 12 inches high. I'm up to the challenge of building a light box; that's no problem. But... some pieces are 36 inches high, wide, deep, or some combination. :huh
This no doubt means two light boxes - one small and the other ginormous.
So how do I bulid a light box big enough to handle pieces so large? Anyone ever done that? I'm figuring I'll need extremely stiff non-glossy paper for the "floor" and background about 48 or maybe 60 inches wide, and then much longer to extend up the back. Where do I find paper like that? And I might need colors other than white.
Any links, hints, pictures, experiences are greatly appreciated!
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
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Seems a tent might be easier to work around using either strobes or hot lights.
just my .oooooo1 cent worth
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Art supply stores like Michael's (our area) and teacher supply stores will many times have long rolls of 3' - 4' side paper. Also in colors.
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I found an extremely lengthy thread on these last night (at another forum). Might as well be made into a novel it's so long.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=61954
It is often better to use a "light tent" for product photography, and position your lights outside possibly using softboxes on the lights to provide double diffusion.
If you have a room with white ceilings and walls available, you can bounce the light into the ceiling and walls for the softest light yet.
Custom light tents can be built to any size using plastic shower curtains or bed sheets. The closer you place the diffusion material, the softer the light, assuming that the light outside the light tent is evenly ditributed across the surface of the diffusion material.
If you do use a solid framework to hold the light tent material, try to suspend the diffusion material away from the frame to eliminate "dark lines" resulting from the shadows of the frame.
Here is a fairly good example of what I am talking about:
http://www.stevesphotoshop.co.uk/product_auction_photography_news.html
If you use a drape in front, either leave slits or cut a port for the lens to peek through. Otherwise, use a large white foam-core board in front of the camera, with a port cut for the lens, to prevent the camera from being visible in reflective pieces.
More inspiration:
http://www.sigma-2.com/camerajim/cjgflatware.htm
http://mcgoffs.net/?page_id=12
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/HL3550/
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Uhhhh I kinda mentioned that up above there dude but thanx for expounding on the subject
I noticed my ebay photography guides listed as a link above, so I thought I'd comment on this.
A light tent is sort of cumbersome for larger items and is not reallly all that useful for small items unless you are dealing with highly reflective items. In most cases, you're better off using freestanding lights and modifying their output with diffusers or reflectors.
One of the cheapest and easiest ways is to add white shoot-through or reflective umbrellas to a couple of lights. This will give you soft but directional light which you can use with any size object. A small white umbrella can be had for $25 or less. If have lights without umbrella holders, figure on another $15 for each swiveling umbrella holder.
A scrim is nothing more than a frame with diffusion material over it. Someone already suggested making a light tent with PVC tubing and this works well for scrims, too. You could easily construct a couple of very large scrims this way using PVC and cheap white fabric.
Softboxes with either strobes or continuous lights are the most versatile, but the cost will be significantly higher.
Here's another of my ebay guide pages, this time with some basic lighting info...
http://www.sigma-2.com/camerajim/cjglighting.htm
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Question: If I want to use high power halogen lighting (~3300ºK) and bounced flash from my 580 off the ceiling (~6000ºK), how do I change (filter) the 580 to equal the halogen lighting? What color would come close to the halogen souces?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
I think, however, that you'll find it much easier to use one or the other - go with just flash or just halogen (tungsten).
Yes, one or the other - I agree. Just thought it would be a decent addition to use my most expensive light to actually, you know, light up a subject.
Tonight I went shopping. Came home with (2) 250w/500w halogen work lights from Home Depot - only $14.97 each, and (6) 20-inch x 30-inch white foam boards - $1.38 each at Michael's Crafts, and a small box of those black spring paper clamp things to attach them all together (with corner tabs of painters tape).
The plan is to cut out most of the side panels and replace with white baking paper to allow the now diffused halogen light in. The baking paper is very thin, but has a high flash point - important with those 500w halogens. Yikes they get hot fast! The top panel will have as bright white paper I can find to also bounce light downwards if I decide to also light from below.
I need to find sturdy white (non-shiny) paper in rolls, wider than 24 inches. Would also be nice to find a source for 36-inch wide colored roll paper too. Plenty of the 24-inch stuff around, but if I use the box in landscape orientation, then 24 inches won't be wide enough. I have heard that white butchers paper works well. I might have to go buy some meat somewhere.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
As for a cheap Home Depot diffuser panels, have you checked out the fluorescent lighting department? They sell 2x4 foot plastic panels for overhead lights. A couple of frosted panels would work OK.
Lots of ways to skin this diffusion cat.
OK, Cool! I didn't really want to do a B&H order for, um, paper, if you know what I mean
Diffuser panels. Yes! that's what I'm looking for, and another trip to Mennards or the Depot will happen again real soon. White would be best (not those prismatic clear'ish ones). I would need to make something to hold them upright in front of the halogen lights — and very sturdy so they don't fall over into the lights :wow . The fire department is right next door (literally), but still...
For the large items, I think all I need is some heavy-duty diffused side wattage and a seamless backdrop. I'll build a small box, but I don't want to get out the pipecutting tools. Simpler is better.
I'll be doing custom WB and also shoot RAW. No matter how much wattage is used, there is always some PP to be done later. I also plan on doing a lot of test shooting before I really jump into this, just so I can figure out the lighting variables and PP work flow.
Once I have the paper backdrops and baking paper, I should have some pictures of the rigging up here.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-diy-10-macro-photo-studio.html
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Skippy (Australia) - Moderator of "HOLY MACRO" and "OTHER COOL SHOTS"
ALBUM http://ozzieskip.smugmug.com/
:skippy Everyone has the right to be stupid, but some people just abuse the privilege :dgrin
Check out white table cover, like what they use to cover banquet tables. Usually 36-40" wide and cheap enough to throw away when your done or as it gets used.
Shop around as prices vary considerably.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Great advice, thank you!
They also come in color:-)
I gathered the remaining parts together this afternoon. I have yet to construct the thing (that will be next week at the earliest) but here is the pile of basic parts.
The entire light box will break down and set up quickly. The parchment paper is for windows in the side panels to let the light in from the halogens (I wanted wider but only found a 15" wide roll). I plan to clip the panels together via tabs on the corners of the panels with the little black spring clips so I don't damage the panels every time I assemble it. The blue painter's tape is to make the corner tabs.
The thin pane of glass is for reflections from shinier items when necessary. The plan is to lay that below the subject and on top of the paper below. The medium and large white bag clips are for clipping the rolled paper to the back and front of the foam core panels, again, so I don't squeeze damage the foam. I found the white clips at a local dollar-type store called Deals.
For the glass, I shopped an art store (where I finally fount the backdrop paper rolls) and a glass supplier, and they wanted more than twice for scrap 1/8" glass than what I ended up paying at Home Depot for a finished piece. The Painter's tape is also from the Depot, which was 1/2 the price of most everywhere else. I could have used masking tape - I just thought for what might become a tutorial I should use something more colorful.
The parchment paper (from local food store) might withstand the temperatures of the halogens better (I'll still have my fire extinguisher handy). I wish I could have found a wider roll of that. If I do, I could always widen the cutout from the side panels later.
I really wanted to start today, but time didn't allow. The rolled paper has to lay flat and relax for a few days anyway, which is what I also want to do, but it's off to work for the next four days. See you next week!
Next up..... Part Two - The Construction Begins, where I anticipate the question from the spouse "What are you doing with all that on our dining room table?"
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Thanks for sharing, Dave!
Thanks, Gus. Yes, I have already received a very stern warning at home after I plugged one in and tested it. Hot and bright those things are.
But with a last name like mine, the brighter, the better.
Both will be connected to a handy power strip with a breaker and kill switch. I don't want them on any more than necessary.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
No worries.Breakers/fuses are only to protect the wiring...not the device. Assuming they are 100 watts globes & yank power being a poofy 110v thats only about 1amp. So no breaker will care about that...it will just happily let something burn away.
Just dont leave the room with them turned on....ever. I use them at night all the time but only on concrete.
I had only an hour today to work on the project. Before slicing and dicing the real panels, I first decided to construct a 1/2 scale model out of cardboard to work out the bugs.
For this model I used cheaper masking tape to make the tabs and found the spring clips to slide right off, even with this wimpy lightweight proto-version. I either needed stronger clips (there aren't any) or different tab material. As the painter's tape was much like the masking tape, I had to improvise.
Many people have used hat pins (which eventually destroys the corners) or more expensive velcro straps. Velcro is nice, but with the heat of the lamps on something that has spots of glue, I felt they would work loose and also be expensive, going against the very idea of a cheap ghetto light box.
The answer was dry rice.
Anyway, here's the model in front of a full-sized white foam core board.
The rectangular cutouts on each side will have the white parchment paper covering them for the light to shine through. The cutouts are also offset towards the front since the subjects will be closer to the front of the box.
I will eventually need to deal with the box being placed in landscape orientation for wider objects, so the four sides will all have the parchment paper treatment. I am hoping the panels on the final version will remain strong enough when all four sides have the center material missing. If not, I'll need to get a few more panels.
That top front panel wasn't planned. It was left over from cutting one of the rectangular panels square for the ends. As it turns out, the extra stability is a real plus. I'm thinking that it couldn't hurt to bounce extra photons back towards the subject from the front. If I keep it in the final design, I'll probably convert it into an arch.
I was also planning to make the back panel taller somehow, so the backdrop papers could be clamped more easily with the larger white clamps. The next version will allow the top panel to be slid one inch frontwards or somesuch to allow the big clamps easier access at top rear.
Since subjects vary in depth, a bottom "drawer" piece will anchor the backdrop paper and allow it to be pulled forwards or backwards for adjustability of the curve and tension of the backdrop paper.
And she didn't ask what I was doing with the dining room table. Yet.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Thank you for sharing! Very interesting and educational.
I only didn't get the dry rice thingie, where/how on earth did you get to use it?
I agree with Gus, those Halogen work lites are a serious fire hazard. I refuse to allow them in my wooden barns.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I'll pass on what I have learned. Unless your working in a cold garage in the winter, your not gona like the heat! (It can also be seriously dangerous) The light output isn’t as high as you think. The camera will be using fairly low shutter speeds.
Make sure there are no other light sources in the room when you are shooting. Depending on the subject, color etc. this can introduce some strange color casts/ reflections / etc. That are almost impossible to correct in PS.
I have tried halogen shop lights, those cheap metal shop lights with daylight-balanced bulbs. All kinds of light modifying material. A variety of cobbled up attempted solutions, all to less that stellar results.
I damn near pulled all my hair out and beat what little brains I have out against the proverbial brick wall.
My solution was to just break down, and buy a set of strobes with stands and soft boxes.
I cannot tell you how much easier, and better this is!!!!
If it were possible for your budget, I would highly recommend this. If the budget won’t reach, then be prepared for a lot of frustration.
Good luck!
Sam
Hi Sam. I appreciate the concern. I do know thay aren't too safe up close. The way my work schedule is going, it may well be winter before I get this beast up, and the extra heat will needed. I thought about one or two 430's (or lesser lights) but this project is set up as a ghetto light box project (meaning real real cheap). I will need the higher 500 watt/each output on the larger objects when I get there. Oh, and I might actually use the halogen lighting for other non-photo projects. As I said earlier, the fire extinguisher isn't far away.
Agreed. It will be an experiment for me too. And perhaps a challenge - but what's not to like about a challenge? I will be using the RAW images and/or custom WB set for the halogen lighting. These same lights have been used before by other people with good results here in another forum.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
YES! They would.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky