B&H Photo Video - International Order - Credit Card Not Allowing Purchase

crgphotographer

Greetings all,

has anyone had any experience purchasing from B&H internationally using a MasterCard?

I have decided to put myself into even more debt and finish off my equipment list with a Canon 70-200L IS f2.8 lens & 580EX II flash plus some accessories.

I get my new card, activate it, login into my cart and then find out that due to banking regulations they can only accept AMEX & Discover cards? ARRGGHH!!! :cry

I now have no idea what to do, other than go without that equipment??

Ideas / Your experiences??? Anyone??

/craig.

ps. if this post fits somewhere else, please move.

Richard

I bought stuff from B&H using a Visa card. I had to send them a photo of both sides of the card itself the first time I ordered, but otherwise had no problem. I would try calling them to find out what you can do. You may be able to simply place the order by phone.

Best of luck.

gus

G'day craig ..yeah...the B & H (and Adoramas for that matter as well) policy has always been that for other cards they req you to fax a photocopy of your credit card..both sides. I am talking about visa & master card ..not those you mentioned.

Now for my money...faxing a copy of your signature i suspect would void any protection you have of missuse. So i never shop from here at either & i also talk to a lot of aussies on other forums & they are all pretty much the same as me. I honestly dont know what its all about but it does, i know for a fact cost them a hell of a lot of aussie sales. Personally i think if you wont simply take a visa from o/s...you are overfed, as the rest of the world does for pretty well everything else.

crgphotographer

Thank you both for your replies, so very good advice. I think I will call B&H. Gus, you make a very good point. I guess I might take the risk, which I guess goes with the pricing at B&H. Also I will be maxing out the credit card in the first place so there isn't much anyone could buy on it! I then plan on paying it all out very quickly as i have a few weddings over the next two months.

Thanks again for the advice, I feel a lot better now!

/craig.

gus

crgphotographer wrote:

Thank you both for your replies, so very good advice. I think I will call B&H. Gus, you make a very good point. I guess I might take the risk, which I guess goes with the pricing at B&H. Also I will be maxing out the credit card in the first place so there isn't much anyone could buy on it! I then plan on paying it all out very quickly as i have a few weddings over the next two months.

Thanks again for the advice, I feel a lot better now!

/craig.

Just another issue i have is that for us to phone/fax the US...its a massive number with several prefix's...i hope the fax gets to the exact right place.

But im a bit old fasioned & still just like to talk to or email someone whom extends some level of trust to me, as i do to them.




.

Richard

gus wrote:

Just another issue i have is that for us to phone/fax the US...its a massive number with several prefix's...i hope the fax gets to the exact right place.

But im a bit old fasioned & still just like to talk to or email someone whom extends some level of trust to me, as i do to them.




.

It needn't be faxed. They will accept photo attachments via email.

That said, I agree that companies that make doing business with them a pain in the butt are not likely to win my loyalty as a customer. Problem is, almost all large American companies are treating customers as adversaries these days. As soon as one company comes up with a new, obnoxious twist, the competitors seem to copy it. So the only alternative is dealing with mom-and-pop shops (if you can still find one) and paying list prices.

Sad.

Ric Grupe

rsinmadrid wrote:

It needn't be faxed. They will accept photo attachments via email.

That said, I agree that companies that make doing business with them a pain in the butt are not likely to win my loyalty as a customer. Problem is, almost all large American companies are treating customers as adversaries these days. As soon as one company comes up with a new, obnoxious twist, the competitors seem to copy it. So the only alternative is dealing with mom-and-pop shops (if you can still find one) and paying list prices.

Sad.

Good, and sadly true, point...Richard.:cry

Let's see now...you want my money...but first I must kiss your left cheek...OMG, you don't mean the one on your face!!!

(BTW) Personally, I have no problem with B&H.

Skippy

crgphotographer wrote:

Greetings all,

has anyone had any experience purchasing from B&H internationally using a MasterCard?

I have decided to put myself into even more debt and finish off my equipment list with a Canon 70-200L IS f2.8 lens & 580EX II flash plus some accessories.

I get my new card, activate it, login into my cart and then find out that due to banking regulations they can only accept AMEX & Discover cards? ARRGGHH!!! :cry

I now have no idea what to do, other than go without that equipment??

Ideas / Your experiences??? Anyone??

/craig.

ps. if this post fits somewhere else, please move.

Credit Card Limit is the problem.
There is a limit of $1,500 on any overseas Credit Card Transaction.

I have struck this problem twice with B&H but thanks to a quick phone call to Henry at B&H I was able to split my second order into two packages,
and place two orders about 15 minutes apart.

The combined orders came to over $1,500 however when I split them I made sure neither package came to that amount.

B&H also kindly removed the postage on the second parcel for me

Sorry but you cannot over ride the $1,500 limit on your credit card for Overseas Transactions with B&H.

It is not based on your personal credit limit at all, it's been set by the Bank for security purposes or B&H I forget which one it was.

Each time I buy from B&H I get a phone call in the morning from my Bank to tell me my Credit Card has been used ... they're on the ball
.... Skippy (Victoria Australia)
.

sirsloop

please please PLEASE!!! - don't send your credit card photos over standard email!!!! No no no!! Fax it!

claudermilk

Ric Grupe wrote:

Good, and sadly true, point...Richard.:cry

Let's see now...you want my money...but first I must kiss your left cheek...OMG, you don't mean the one on your face!!!

(BTW) Personally, I have no problem with B&H.

At that point, I now have the habit of telling them to go kiss my left cheek, because I'm taking my business to a competitor.

I actually just ran into that kind of attitude at a restaurant this weekend, my party and I were examining the menu outside the door & commented that we weren't looking to spend the kind of money they wanted on dinner that night. An employee overheard and made a snotty comment, to which I replied that now, even if I were looking to spend that, it would no longer be here-or actually ever now. Good PR there.

I'm more than happy to tell an obnoxious vendor exactly why they have now lost my business and will be getting plenty of free advertising from me. Most don't get it.

Ric Grupe

claudermilk wrote:

Most don't get it.

Unfortunately, most could care less! That's the really sad part.

gus

Ric Grupe wrote:

(BTW) Personally, I have no problem with B&H.

That would be because your not ordering from outside the US.

Ric Grupe

gus wrote:

That would be because your not ordering from outside the US.

I understand that, Gus.

I didn't want folks to think I was B&H bashing.

henryp

gus wrote:

Now for my money...faxing a copy of your signature i suspect would void any protection you have of missuse. So i never shop from here at either & i also talk to a lot of aussies on other forums & they are all pretty much the same as me. I honestly dont know what its all about but it does, i know for a fact cost them a hell of a lot of aussie sales. Personally i think if you wont simply take a visa from o/s...you are overfed, as the rest of the world does for pretty well everything else.

In the 10+ years I've been at B&H I do not know of one customer who's had cause to regret compliance. It's safe, unintrusive, and coupled with our other precautions, remarkably effective. It does not violate any protection offered by the bank which issued the card. Its purpose is your protection from credit card fraud and identity theft. I don't want to have a dueling Aussies match, but we have many customer from Australia and elsewhere outside the USA and as I said none has ever had cause to regret compliance with this one-time procedure.

henryp

rsinmadrid wrote:

It needn't be faxed. They will accept photo attachments via email.

PLEASE DO NOT email a card image. E-mail is unsecure. We have a secure card image upload site at www.bhphoto.com/ccupload.

rsinmadrid wrote:

That said, I agree that companies that make doing business with them a pain in the butt are not likely to win my loyalty as a customer. Problem is, almost all large American companies are treating customers as adversaries these days. As soon as one company comes up with a new, obnoxious twist, the competitors seem to copy it. So the only alternative is dealing with mom-and-pop shops (if you can still find one) and paying list prices. Sad.

I am sorry you've developed this misconception but this is akin to blaming an airline for the need to have airport security queues. It's our job to make your shopping experience as painless and efficient as possible, but part of that process is ensuring we don't unwittingly allow you to become victimized through our carelessness or nonfeasance.

henryp

Skippy wrote:

Credit Card Limit is the problem.
There is a limit of $1,500 on any overseas Credit Card Transaction.

I have struck this problem twice with B&H but thanks to a quick phone call to Henry at B&H I was able to split my second order into two packages,
and place two orders about 15 minutes apart...

Thanks. Here's the deal -- we have a limit of $1500.00 per transaction for Visa and MasterCard only and only for customers residing in Australia, England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland, France, and Denmark. There's no limit if you're using AmEx or Discover or wire transfer payment.

You may well ask why, and this is a legitimate question. When we get an overseas order one of the things we do periodically to verify that the order and the customer are legitimate and not an attempt at some sort of piracy (at your expense) is query the bank which issued the credit card. Since banks are (or certainly should be) as concerned as retailers about credit card fraud and identity theft, most reply. Unfortunately we've learned that banks in the few countries listed above seem reluctant or unwilling to respond to these queries, making verification difficult.

We regret their unwillingness to cooperate and regret the inconvenience it places on our customers. We work daily to find the verification systems and procedures which will best combine effectiveness and efficiency.

claudermilk

That all sounds reasonable to me. In fact, the times I've made a large purchase (new PC several years ago, new lens recently) and the CC company has checked up on it, I took that as a good sign. Even though the PC purchase required playing games like skippy has outlined, I'm more than happy to deal with the slight inconvenience as it indicated the company is making an effort to protect me.

gus

henryp wrote:

PLEASE DO NOT email a card image. E-mail is unsecure. We have a secure card image upload site at www.bhphoto.com/ccupload.



I am sorry you've developed this misconception but this is akin to blaming an airline for the need to have airport security queues. It's our job to make your shopping experience as painless and efficient as possible, but part of that process is ensuring we don't unwittingly allow you to become victimized through our carelessness or nonfeasance.

I dont understand. I am automatically protected/insured here for credit card misuse buy the credit card company itself. I just dont go looking for trouble which is why i refuse to put a copy in a fax machine.I have had ours stolen & used online in the US...visa simply said to me that the costs are covered/insured.

I think you may be talking about protecting yourself.

Also...i have contacted B&H twice & Andorama once in the past & never was i pointed towards a secure upload. Had that been the case im sure i would have gone ahead with a purchase.

Richard

henryp wrote:

I am sorry you've developed this misconception but this is akin to blaming an airline for the need to have airport security queues. It's our job to make your shopping experience as painless and efficient as possible, but part of that process is ensuring we don't unwittingly allow you to become victimized through our carelessness or nonfeasance.

My earlier rant was not specifically directed at B&H, Henry. My dealings to date with you guys have been consistently positive. As Gus points out, though, consumers in most countries of the world are not liable for fraudulent credit card purchases made in their name. It is still in the consumers' interest to help prevent fraud, but mainly because of the enormous hassle it involves to assert their rights in the event of a disputed charge. It's the merchants and banks that lose money to fraud.

Foochar

Merchant is responsible for fraud
In a way you are correct in saying that B&H is trying to protect themselves. It is the merchant who bears the responsiblity for the losses if someone places a fradulent charge, not the bank or the credit card association (VISA/MasterCard). The scenario goes something like this: Thief places an order for a Canon 1D Mark III using your credit card information. B&H ships the 1D Mark III to Thief. You get your credit card bill, say I didn't order that, call your credit card company. They then issue a chargeback to B&H, and B&H is out a 1D Mark III with nothing to show for it.

In order for places like B&H to keep their prices as low as they are they have to minimize overhead as much as possible. That is why they have things like credit card verification, strictly enforced return policies etc. At the end of the day every merchant has to balance the likelyhood of upseting a customer because of these policies, and the costs they would incur if they did not have these policies in place. That is why for a smaller order they don't enforce a verficiation policy, the loss is smaller if there is fraud involved. For similar reasons many brick and mortar stores are starting to track returns without receipts and flag customers who repeatedly return items without a receipt.

I'm not saying that B&H is perfect, I've always been happy with my purchases there, but I have heard stories that are perfectly believable about problems people have had with them. In this case I think they have a perfectly reasonable policy in place. At the end of the day "Understanding is a three edged sword."

gus

Foochar wrote:

In a way you are correct in saying that B&H is trying to protect themselves. It is the merchant who bears the responsiblity for the losses if someone places a fradulent charge, not the bank or the credit card association (VISA/MasterCard). The scenario goes something like this: Thief places an order for a Canon 1D Mark III using your credit card information. B&H ships the 1D Mark III to Thief. You get your credit card bill, say I didn't order that, call your credit card company. They then issue a chargeback to B&H, and B&H is out a 1D Mark III with nothing to show for it.

In order for places like B&H to keep their prices as low as they are they have to minimize overhead as much as possible. That is why they have things like credit card verification, strictly enforced return policies etc. At the end of the day every merchant has to balance the likelyhood of upseting a customer because of these policies, and the costs they would incur if they did not have these policies in place. That is why for a smaller order they don't enforce a verficiation policy, the loss is smaller if there is fraud involved. For similar reasons many brick and mortar stores are starting to track returns without receipts and flag customers who repeatedly return items without a receipt.

I'm not saying that B&H is perfect, I've always been happy with my purchases there, but I have heard stories that are perfectly believable about problems people have had with them. In this case I think they have a perfectly reasonable policy in place. At the end of the day "Understanding is a three edged sword."

Thats a fair call.

henryp

gus wrote:

I dont understand. I am automatically protected/insured here for credit card misuse buy the credit card company itself. I just dont go looking for trouble which is why i refuse to put a copy in a fax machine.I have had ours stolen & used online in the US...visa simply said to me that the costs are covered/insured.

Foochar's post is on the money, so to speak. My family had credit card theft issues several years ago which you can read about here. No disrespect but the idea that your bank won't take your money so you're immune to the effects of crime is naive. If there's crime in your neighborhood, it affects you too even though your house may not have been burgled . . . yet.

It may not cost you any actual cash if you're victimized, but it took my wife and me a full 9-5 work-week to get straightened out; a week full of phone calls, faxes, emails and personal visits to the police. The process was so time consuming she ended up taking the week as vacation because she couldn't get any work done. Today, a decade later, the matter still crops up -- the last time I leased a car the issue was raised and there's at least one major US department store that still requires extra photo-ID before we can use the store's credit card there.

When you're the victim of credit card fraud, the retailer and the bank pay and they look to you and the chap next to you for compensation, whether it's increased fees or reluctance to lower an interest rate or declining to remove a late fee. In the case of identity theft, I think we've all read horror-stories about families whose entire credit-worthiness and retirement were sundered. Nothing like waking up one morning to discover you have no credit, no savings, no retirement funds, and your home is in receivership all because some pirate's living large having used your name to aquire his plunder.

I hate to sound like one of those Washington DC pols telling you we all suffer for crime, but we do. Simple as that.

We stand in airport queues to get our sneakers inspected because we'd rather be (or feel) safe than end up like the poor souls from flight 103. The consequences here are certainly not life-threatening, but when one can exert an ounce of prevention and actually avoid the pound of cure, why not? Benefits you and the chap next to you.

gus

henryp wrote:

It may not cost you any actual cash if you're victimized, but it took my wife and me a full 9-5 work-week to get straightened out; a week full of phone calls, faxes, emails and personal visits to the police. The process was so time consuming she ended up taking the week as vacation because she couldn't get any work done. Today, a decade later, the matter still crops up -- the last time I leased a car the issue was raised and there's at least one major US department store that still requires extra photo-ID before we can use the store's credit card there.

I made one phone call when it happened to me and the young lady said "thanks for calling we will contact you if we need to" & that was that.

That was 8 years ago.

Still the case here now...worst case scenario is that i have to pay the first $50 of the fraud.

crgphotographer

I want to thank everyone for their replies and discussions, especially Henry from B&H. It sure is an interesting world we live in.

In the end the 70-200L lense that I wanted is over $1500.00, that combined with a drop in the AUD against the USD and the steps required to make the purchase has stopped me from going ahead with the order. I am going to drop some of the accessories for now and just buy an Aussie 70-200 & the 580EX II flash for $3K.

Thanks again,

/craig.

gus

crgphotographer wrote:

I want to thank everyone for their replies and discussions, especially Henry from B&H. It sure is an interesting world we live in.

In the end the 70-200L lense that I wanted is over $1500.00, that combined with a drop in the AUD against the USD and the steps required to make the purchase has stopped me from going ahead with the order. I am going to drop some of the accessories for now and just buy an Aussie 70-200 & the 580EX II flash for $3K.

Thanks again,

/craig.

Craig...i have found that Photo Continental in brissy here matched an 'on-line' price & reduced a lens from $1100 to $745 when i put the bite on them. That reduction plus local warranty was more than enough for me.