a serving of humble pie

Elaine

Just when I start to feel a tiny bit like I kinda maybe sorta have improved enough to have an inkling of what I'm doing when it comes to shooting location portraits, I have a shoot that makes me feel like a complete failure! :cry

I was hired to shoot four kids, ages 2-6. Of course we had bright sunshine today, so I needed to shoot in somewhat open shade. I was so anxious all day that when they actually arrived, I don't think I was thinking clearly. My background was not great (why didn't I move them?), I don't like going above ISO 200 or 400 on my camera, so I left it at 100 (why did I do that?), so the squirmy little 2-year old that wouldn't hold still is NOT SHARP because my shutter speed was TOO SLOW (why didn't I pay attention to THAT??) I think it would be better to have some graininess due to higher ISO than blur due to movement and low shutter speed. The light in their eyes was OK, but why didn't I at least try some fill flash, even though all I have is the in-camera flash? I think I get flustered by kids who are not behaving all that well (and not listening to their parents) and I just want to be quick for their sake, and my mind freezes up!

I've offered to do another shoot, but as one of the little kids has to travel home to France with his mommy next week, I'm not sure our schedules will allow that. Grandma is the one who paid me and the one who really wants an 11x14 print of all her grandkids (yikes!).
Right now, I'm not sure I belong in this business! Does anyone have any just-starting-out horror stories??
(I'll post a pic or two later).

Dee

I know how you feel when things just go wrong too quickly and you just can't think... much less take a time out to gather your thoughts and chimp a bit...

I hope the grandmother will like the photos you have, which are probably better than any she can take, or she wouldn't have asked you to take them, right?

Please let us know her reactions...

Ages TWO to six??? Yikes... and FOUR of them -- at once?

Maybe you can do some photo compositing if all else fails...

jeffreaux2

11x14.......yuck. I hope that you knew ahead of time that an11x14 was expected. That is a pretty tough crop if not planned ahead of time.
Good luck, and don't be so critical of yourself. I did much the same for a bridal portrait session. I had just recieved a new lens(first time using it) and took ALL of the photos with it. I should have swapped lenses around and used what I was accustomed to. In the end, the lens performed beautifully and it was ok, but could....should have been a disaster.

Stacey L

Are they really that bad, Elaine? I took a look at your gallery and I really liked some of your photos. If you really feel like you didn't satisfy the customer, maybe you should give her a refund. Just a thought.

Elaine wrote:

Just when I start to feel a tiny bit like I kinda maybe sorta have improved enough to have an inkling of what I'm doing when it comes to shooting location portraits, I have a shoot that makes me feel like a complete failure! :cry

I was hired to shoot four kids, ages 2-6. Of course we had bright sunshine today, so I needed to shoot in somewhat open shade. I was so anxious all day that when they actually arrived, I don't think I was thinking clearly. My background was not great (why didn't I move them?), I don't like going above ISO 200 or 400 on my camera, so I left it at 100 (why did I do that?), so the squirmy little 2-year old that wouldn't hold still is NOT SHARP because my shutter speed was TOO SLOW (why didn't I pay attention to THAT??) I think it would be better to have some graininess due to higher ISO than blur due to movement and low shutter speed. The light in their eyes was OK, but why didn't I at least try some fill flash, even though all I have is the in-camera flash? I think I get flustered by kids who are not behaving all that well (and not listening to their parents) and I just want to be quick for their sake, and my mind freezes up!

I've offered to do another shoot, but as one of the little kids has to travel home to France with his mommy next week, I'm not sure our schedules will allow that. Grandma is the one who paid me and the one who really wants an 11x14 print of all her grandkids (yikes!).
Right now, I'm not sure I belong in this business! Does anyone have any just-starting-out horror stories??
(I'll post a pic or two later).

Scott_Quier

In the "for what it's worth" category, I think we all go through that. Saturday (just a couple of days ago) I had an E-Session. My ISO was fine, but I was shooting AV part of the time and the EC was set to +1. So, if I had been watching the shutter speed and/or the EC, a lot of the shots would have been much better. I'm lucky though, there is at least one in every pose that is "good enough".

So, no, you're not alone.

On a different note, with kids, I have found that it usually works better if you can keep the parents out of the equation. Ask them to sit on the side-lines and let you manage the kids. This usually works well, as long as you can keep the younger ones from getting scared 'cause the parent(s) are not right there. Older children seem to behave for strangers a lot better than they do for their parents - go figure.

Elaine

OK...so you've talked me down from the ledge! Thanks!
I did not know ahead of time about them wanting an 11x14 crop, but I shot quite wide, just in case. I've offered a reshoot (!) or a refund, so we'll see what they say. I'm still working on a few more other shots, but here's the one I've worked up that turned out best of the four kids...I don't like that he's holding a toy (a ball pump) but his mom let him have it and holding something was the only way he'd stay put! If you see anything else I should PP to make this salvagable, let me know! This is an 11x14 crop, BTW.

jeffreaux2

Smart on your part to save room for the crop. I like the pose with the stools. I am not crazy about the BG, but have seen far worse. The basketball pump, and the girl on the right seem to be the major flaws to me. The pump shouldn't be in the photo, and the girls(both) should maybe have been asked to cross their feet. THere is too much in view under the girl's skirt. Crossing her feet may have taken care of this. A small detail, but as far as C&C go that is what I offer. Now, does that mean that I haven't gotten home from a shoot and noticed a bra strap showing, or a shoe untied....a necklace clasp in the front of a neck etc.......happens all the time, but....BUT I am trying to learn to see these things BEFORE I click the shutter. Take my critique with a grain of salt......Everyone here has room for improvment.

BTW .....beautiful kiddos.

Oh on the BG.....I prefer to either....not have anything man made in the BG....or to have some very strong and interesting archetecture in the BG. Either way, I at least try to soften it with a shallow DOF.

Elaine

Thanks, Jeff.

Yes, I agree...the ball pump is an eye sore, and the girl's dress isn't right either. I couldn't believe it when the mother actually handed the kid that toy! Kids love to play with it, but for pictures?? When I asked for it to be taken away, they traded it with something else and the kid lost it...it was all over at that point! I think maybe I'll not have little girls in dresses sit down again! That was definitley an issue I had not thought about/encountered before! (I have a little boy!)
The background leaves something to be desired...the better spots were in a more open (not fenced in) environment, and these kids are difficult to reign in and keep from running in all directions, so I knew the mom was not anxious to go there. Anyway, I shot at f/5.6, and I added a very slight gaussian blur, so for this spot, I think that's as good as it gets.

Ahh well...this is definitely a live and learn experience!

Seneca

Can I take a stab at it? I think it looks fine. Just want to do a little touch up.

Elaine

Seneca wrote:

Can I take a stab at it? I think it looks fine. Just want to do a little touch up.

Go for it! I've done a bit more touching up myself, since I posted this, but I'd love to see what you see!

jeffreaux2

I wouldn't shy away from seating girls in dresses. You are going to get most of your little girls in dresses anyway. Just look for it when you are taking pictures. I sometimes get them seated and...if they are really young walk up, prop their feet so they know how I want them crossed, and then tug the skirt down to my satisfaction. For older girls....teenagers....I will just bluntly say......Hey kiddo, I see your underwear......and then they will do whatever they need to do to fix things up. A helpful parent wouldn't have let this go south for you. If they are THAT wild, I might just ask the kids what do they want to do. Tell them they can do whatever they want as long as thet stay within arms reach of one another, and then take candids of them interacting with each other. Ahhhh....I just forgot about the best....THE ABSOLUTE BEST tool......a huge zip lock full of M&M's can work magic with the little ones.....just be sure it is used as a reward after getting your shot. They might actually look forward to the next pose!!!

Cuties02q

I really don't think it is that bad Elaine..the pump is an eye sore but it woun't be a huge deal to me. Sorry you feel bad about the shoot...I think we all have a bad one once in a while =( One of my first shoots was a 3 week old and it was just a disaster I was not happy with any of of the photos. The baby cried almost the whole time...and now looking back I would have tried so many different things. Oh well we learn as we go

Elaine

jeffreaux2 wrote:

I wouldn't shy away from seating girls in dresses. You are going to get most of your little girls in dresses anyway. Just look for it when you are taking pictures. I sometimes get them seated and...if they are really young walk up, prop their feet so they know how I want them crossed, and then tug the skirt down to my satisfaction. For older girls....teenagers....I will just bluntly say......Hey kiddo, I see your underwear......and then they will do whatever they need to do to fix things up. A helpful parent wouldn't have let this go south for you. If they are THAT wild, I might just ask the kids what do they want to do. Tell them they can do whatever they want as long as thet stay within arms reach of one another, and then take candids of them interacting with each other. Ahhhh....I just forgot about the best....THE ABSOLUTE BEST tool......a huge zip lock full of M&M's can work magic with the little ones.....just be sure it is used as a reward after getting your shot. They might actually look forward to the next pose!!!

Thanks for the tips, Jeff! And I think I like the M&M idea, as long as I get parent permission first. I think it depends on how the kids are raised as to whether that would be totally effective or not...if the kid throws a fit and the parents give in anyway, then the kid might think he can throw a fit in order to GET the M&M. I'm not interested in trying to modify children's every-day behavior in the middle of a shoot! (That's a whole 'nother subject!) Under the right circumstances, though, I think it could work wonders!

Elaine

Cuties02q wrote:

I really don't think it is that bad Elaine..the pump is an eye sore but it woun't be a huge deal to me. Sorry you feel bad about the shoot...I think we all have a bad one once in a while =( One of my first shoots was a 3 week old and it was just a disaster I was not happy with any of of the photos. The baby cried almost the whole time...and now looking back I would have tried so many different things. Oh well we learn as we go

Thanks, Stephenie! I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one to go through something like this. I guess I'll keep plugging along!

Elaine

Here's a shot of the moms (sisters) of the kids in the previous shot. I feel like I almost got something pretty good here, but I think I was too high which makes the blonde lose her neck. I was going for something different and funky...not sure I got quite there, but from this shoot, I'll take it! Oh yeah, and it has background trouble too...should have found something nicer! What WAS I thinking???

EDIT: The blue eyes do look that blue IRL...contacts.



Here are the other "keepers."
http://e-heasley.smugmug.com/gallery/3307701#183922389

Seneca

Yours:



Touched up:



Not everyone likes this look...so it's ok if you don't like it. I probably added to much darkness around the children.

PineapplePhoto

Seneca wrote:

Yours:



Touched up:



Not everyone likes this look...so it's ok if you don't like it. I probably added to much darkness around the children.

Where are the dementors?

Elaine

Thanks for sharing your version, Seneca! It's always interesting and educational to see another view point. It's a little dark for my personal taste, but I like how the children have a glow about them.

Update...
The mom is saying that she is happy with them and to not tear up the check! I feel like she's doing me a favor, but I am somewhat relieved! I think she has an idea that this group is difficult to get a great photo of, my mistakes aside. Not sure what Grandma thinks yet...but at least I feel like I can learn and move on! Thanks for bearing with me, anyone who followed this thread!

Seneca

Elaine wrote:

Thanks for sharing your version, Seneca! It's always interesting and educational to see another view point. It's a little dark for my personal taste, but I like how the children have a glow about them.

Update...
The mom is saying that she is happy with them and to not tear up the check! I feel like she's doing me a favor, but I am somewhat relieved! I think she has an idea that this group is difficult to get a great photo of, my mistakes aside. Not sure what Grandma thinks yet...but at least I feel like I can learn and move on! Thanks for bearing with me, anyone who followed this thread!

Thanks for letting me play with it. Yeah once I added the filter I added too much contrast to it, and clicked "add to picture - and save". Then I viewed it and knew it was too much. My main mission was to outline the kids more instead of the background.

So glad your client likes what you did. Listen we all have bad days as photographers, I especially like how you posed the children and your DOF was right on. Don't sell yourself short...you did a great job.

Take care,
Seneca

wannabe1979

Elaine,

I checked out your gallery and I think that you did a good job for what you had to work with.

At least you had the guts to go out and make your hobby pay for itself. I have yet had the confidence to step out and charge anyone. I'm still doing freebe stuff. I know that I'm not the best but also I know that I'm not the worst either.

Keep up the good work and don't get discouraged.

ian408

You've caught a contrasting expression between the two boys and a bit of one between the two girls. I think that's pretty cool!

J Kacey

Here's my quick shot at it......Could have blended the grass better. Just a stab I'm no expert.

One a little lighter

Elaine

wannabe1979 wrote:

Elaine,

I checked out your gallery and I think that you did a good job for what you had to work with.

At least you had the guts to go out and make your hobby pay for itself. I have yet had the confidence to step out and charge anyone. I'm still doing freebe stuff. I know that I'm not the best but also I know that I'm not the worst either.

Keep up the good work and don't get discouraged.

Thanks so much for the . Appreciate the look and the encouragement!

Elaine

ian408 wrote:

You've caught a contrasting expression between the two boys and a bit of one between the two girls. I think that's pretty cool!

Hey, thanks for finding something interesting here!

Elaine

Jerry Kacey wrote:

Here's my quick shot at it......Could have blended the grass better. Just a stab I'm no expert.

One a little lighter

Cool! I like the lighter version. Maybe I'll give the PP another go. Thanks for sharing your version!

vangogh

Yeah Elaine I've had something similar a few months ago. Was asked to take some family pics of a lady & her 2 boys. One was early teens so was manageable but the other was only about 2-3 and just wouldn't keep still AT ALL. Every time I'd got them sorted into some sort of 'good photographic pose' the kid would just wander off & go & play with his toys or even my reflector (it now has little grassy footprints all over it) while his mum did nothing to stop him. I had to go & get him each time he wandered off. The lens I have at the moment only goes to f3.5 so its not that fast & even when I had the camera on a fast shutter speed it couldn't keep up with the kid & couldn't recycle fast enough to catch him. I got him climbing a tree in the end & got a few pics there, but he seemed to have no idea about looking in the camera. I showed her some of the pics & she liked some of them, but we've kinda given it up as a bad job at the moment!

neens_wa

I liked Seneca's "paint with light" treatment on the image. It made a wonderful shot. Remember, grandma eyes are very different from photographer eyes. This can be your saving grace.

While granny had her heart set on an 11x14, maybe a 12x12 crop would have been easier, and presented with a sample mat - how could she resist? :O)

We could polish off a box of wine with my horror stories. Thank goodness they ended like yours...

neens
http://westernimagphoto.smugmug.com/